Forum › Stripping the Flesh discussion

joined Jul 6, 2020

Im kinda wondering, how much of her motivation stems from being told that "girls cant do that". Its kinda framed like its the driving factor, which would be bullshit.

Well at least I'm not the only one who got that impression. It's internally consistent within the story. Looking at this page, there are hints at Chiaki's condition being more than "just" the result of socialization with utterly inflexible, prescriptive gender roles, though it's pretty safe to assume that tomboyish behaviour (and thus Chiaki's personality) had already been thoroughly judged as inappropriate by the father. Overall, however, the story gave me the impression that Chiaki wouldn't have developed gender dysphoria had "she" been accepted as a tomboy.

Given the way things developed, Chiaki did what he had to in order to have a chance at happiness, regardless of what cause we read into it.

I don't think that explains why he was so disgusted at his period or dreamed of getting his breasts removed though, it's not really a tomboy thing. I think the signs were pretty clear from him reacting to his secondary sex characteristics and sexualfunctions.

Remember what s/he say at the end of that dream "thanks Dad, now i can go hunting too" that dream clearly showed how s/he wanted to be a boy so s/he could do the things s/he wanted to do. I dont know if it was the intention or not But 'my gender restricts me from doing what i like' is at red line going through the story

You can't even call him 'he'. Stop analyzing trans people.

Snowleopardmug
joined Jul 9, 2020

Some compromise must have been reached between dad and daughter over covering the medical bills.

Dad and son.

American_virgin
joined May 25, 2014

Some compromise must have been reached between dad and daughter over covering the medical bills.

Dad and son, there is no daughter. The son seemed to have a successful Youtube channel. And his surgery was in Thailand, which is cheaper.

Pfp
joined Aug 12, 2017

Takatou's entire existence in this manga is to act as a plot device lmao I'm dead

Transcendent Egg
Egg
joined Sep 27, 2018

Transcendent Egg posted:

To be transgender is to contradict the social forces that assign gender (male, female) to infants. This contradiction is necessarily socially contingent.

I agree that gender is social, since gender doesn't exist, but saying being trans is based solely on rejecting social expectations is flat out wrong. While gender is a lie, your biology is real and many trans people main source of dysphoria is disconnect between what they feel their body should be and what it is. Even without social expectations they'd still want to change it, because it feels wrong. There's no society at play there. So saying that being trans is all about rejecting social forces is pretty much straight saying people who mainly are unhappy with their biology aren't trans.

If you are trans you necessarily reject social expectations to be cis. Being unhappy with your biology is to reject the social expectations that you be satisfied with your biology. If you were to live in a counterfactual reality where there is no such expectation, then there would be no necessary rejection of expectations. But we live in a society (bottom text) and so it is, in this context, necessarily a rejection of social expectations.

[edit: what this means is that even if wanting to change your body is entirely internal, you still live in society. society is gonna look at you and say "why are you contradicting us, fuck you"]

Also, gender being social doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Gender being social means it is a process that doesn't need to exist.

last edited at Apr 5, 2021 9:51PM

joined Mar 15, 2015

Damn, I didn’t expect to actually cry while reading this, I’ve never had contact IRL with trans people as far as I know so it all feels a bit distant.
That obsession with being manly in manga though (as we see it here), I’ve always found it weird.

Mint
joined Jun 5, 2015

Transcendent Egg posted:

[edit: what this means is that even if wanting to change your body is entirely internal, you still live in society. society is gonna look at you and say "why are you contradicting us, fuck you"]

Fair.

Also, gender being social doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Gender being social means it is a process that doesn't need to exist.

I meant it. I really don't think gender exists, but that's whole another topic.

last edited at Apr 6, 2021 6:51AM

Illustration2
joined May 18, 2018

yeah

Malibu Uploader
Hogfather
Kouyuri
joined Jan 25, 2016

Nearly 41k views, damn, this release blew up

(1,%20verand)
joined Jun 18, 2019

I think the dad is actually less sexist and more dealing with the death of his wife. She wanted Chiaki to grow up to be a good bride and at one point he admits that he blames himself for letting her grow up to be a boyish girl. Chiaki's "I'm a boy" prolly further compounded this so he didn't want to take his kid doing "manly" activities do make it even "worse". Plus there's the whole protection aspect, which he himself also states. I mean, seriously there are many good reasons not to take your kid hunting and "you're a girl" is just a handy way of giving a reason for him. Also seeing as his attitude shifted drastically in the last few pages, he presumably also simply didn't know an awful lot about gender issues in general. Seeing as once he did study he changed his tone, plus the fact that he actually put in the effort to widen his horizons, I think he should get some slack instead of just writing him off as sexist. Fully knowing of course, that not knowing isn't exactly a valid excuse in most situations in life in general.
Hooray for more overanalyzing!
Story was neat

last edited at Apr 6, 2021 12:37PM

Ewe
joined Jan 22, 2017

His best friend really felt like a convenient plot device or that "one in a million guy" at best. I like the father the most, he felt believable and real. It seems mostly to be a generation thing with him and it's understandable that he wants to keep him (or her in his mind) out of harm. You can't expect old people to make a 180° turn in a few days if they have lived that way for 50+ years.

If Chiaki were a girl, it would make sense not to make her too tomboyish. Basic men usually hate this and who wants to marry a hunter if they actually want a house wife? His only problem was that he didn't really ask his son in the first place and just did what he thought was right because "parents know better".

Untitled
joined Nov 13, 2019

This is a Yuri site.
* Obligitory comment pathologically making sure to refer to the daughter as 'he/him' *

You know they've begun making assaults on 'Mother/Father' titles? Mother is now 'Birthing Parent,' Father is 'Co-Parent.' Even this manga and your comments are out-of-date relative to identity cultists' terminology developments.

'Cringe is a slur' therefore Banned. ''Ignore the trolls.''
It really is just anything you don't want to hear/read isn't it. Next is any mention of chromosomes or even role in procreation. Not that any reader would comment such things unless they were just a malicious troll, huh.

Illustration2
joined May 18, 2018

This is a Yuri site.
* Obligitory comment pathologically making sure to refer to the daughter as 'he/him' *

You know they've begun making assaults on 'Mother/Father' titles? Mother is now 'Birthing Parent,' Father is 'Co-Parent.' Even this manga and your comments are out-of-date relative to identity cultists' terminology developments.

'Cringe is a slur' therefore Banned. ''Ignore the trolls.''
It really is just anything you don't want to hear/read isn't it. Next is any mention of chromosomes or even role in procreation. Not that any reader would comment such things unless they were just a malicious troll, huh.

Sometimes when I wake up I doubt the fact that I am awake, but did you know that I also like meat for lunch? No, I don't eat lunch and never will. Oh, hello! It's been a while, how are you doing? I hope that you're doing okay, you seem hurt.

Well, no, that's not my name, and I am also not a minor, I'm a major key. I don't have a piano, sorry for getting your hopes up.

Shiofused
joined Apr 11, 2019

wat

Screenshot_2021-02-08%20murcielago%20manga%20-%20google%20search
joined Nov 15, 2017

Now that was a very emotional story. Had me tearing up more than once or twice. The characters are all so well made that they all feel like real people. And Takatou is such an awesome friend. He stuck with Chiaki and helped him even after they grew up.

I do have a question though, what was Chiaki's father's reasoning for not wanting to go through with the cancer treatment?

Sometimes when people get older, they tend to not want to be a financial burden to those around them. Unfortunately, this ends up resulting the emotional toll not being thoroughly considered. Sometimes they also just don't trust medicine, such was the case with my grandfather, who let my grandmother's alzheimer's progress to the point where she had to be reminded that he had passed away.

joined Mar 5, 2016

some people are also just scared or fatalistic

Mint
joined Jun 5, 2015

Isn't it just the quality of life thing? Especially when cancer is very advanced, there's very little chance of completely curing it and at best it'll prolong your life by few months, year at best, but you'll spend few months in hospital being miserable during treatment, so some people just prefer to spend rest of their live living it and enjoying what is left of it rather than going through something that won't give much results anyway. That's my best guess anyway.

last edited at Apr 7, 2021 1:54PM

OrangePekoe Staff
Mai_screenshot_541
joined Mar 20, 2013

levelledloot posted:

This is a Yuri site.
* Obligitory comment pathologically making sure to refer to the daughter as 'he/him' *

You know they've begun making assaults on 'Mother/Father' titles? Mother is now 'Birthing Parent,' Father is 'Co-Parent.' Even this manga and your comments are out-of-date relative to identity cultists' terminology developments.

'Cringe is a slur' therefore Banned. ''Ignore the trolls.''
It really is just anything you don't want to hear/read isn't it. Next is any mention of chromosomes or even role in procreation. Not that any reader would comment such things unless they were just a malicious troll, huh.

This is not a "Yuri site", we never claimed it was. That user wasn't banned for using the word cringe, cringe is not a slur. The rest of your post is just vague nonsense about being silenced for bringing up topics that have absolutely nothing to do with this manga and are at best violating rule 11. You've been banned indefinitely, take care.

Shiofused
joined Apr 11, 2019

Nevri posted:

Isn't it just the quality of life thing? Especially when cancer is very advanced, there's very little chance of completely curing it and at best it'll prolong your life by few months, year at best, but you'll spend few months in hospital being miserable during treatment, so some people just prefer to spend rest of their live living it and enjoying what is left of it rather than going through something that won't give much results anyway. That's my best guess anyway.

I think part of it was not wanting to let Chiaki work to make up for all of the family's expenses, he was waiting for him to be married off before doing it and only accepted the treatment after he became a hunter.

Illustration2
joined May 18, 2018

wat

That's how I felt while reading the individual's reply. A transphobe is hurt that people rightfully reject them in most spaces and thinks that they can complain here. Lmao.

Anyway, to add into the discussion:

Isn't it just the quality of life thing?

I agree with this, and, at least where I live, older folk tend to avoid seeing doctors, specially if they're men. The reason can go from thinking that it's unnecessary to not trusting doctors. Yeah, this might come from the idea many of them have that men need to be strong and that it's humilitating to be seen as a weak person, but in this manga I think that it's more about the money and freedom.

He might have wanted to leave that money to his son.

last edited at Apr 7, 2021 3:27PM

5b3c524e-e066-4eaf-8e5f-ae4e37b5edda
joined Jan 18, 2016

I really loved this. Glad this is here

Fbphoto
joined Feb 26, 2018

This is the first discussion of FtM/transmasculinity I've seen in manga and it was surprisingly well-done. I'm really, really glad to see this here. I've known 4 FtM people, one of which is a current housemate, and they've been all but invisible in the real world. Maybe it's kind of strange for a lesbian to be friends with transmen, but all four of them are some of the nicest people I've ever met.

I'm kind of wondering, though, "levelledloot" there has all of 5 posts and every single one is complaining about how trans people and "leftists" and so on are taking over the planet. Really, click their name and read their posts. Two complaints about cheating, one about recent yuri seeming too prideful or political, and THIS.

How does a site like this attract people like that? That has GOT to be some creepy incel who just comes here for yuri smut, ugh.

Kase
joined Sep 11, 2020

I think that cis people (like me) can't really comment on what trans people actually feel without sounding patronizing.

The only thing we can do is acknowledge them and support them if they need it.

Absolutely this! A good outlook. Though trans friends, being very disenfranchised peoples, will probably always need that support lol

Also yea like, I think a big reason I like this is it just... acknowledges trans men exist. And shows them in a pretty good and realistic light. Its annoying and a little sad that I'm so happy about trans men actually being represented but hey, whatcha gonna do. Hopefully it also educated some friends here too.

Tumblr_o0q3lpk5iw1sgwq68o10_400
joined May 6, 2013

This story cuts 2 deep for me i myself am trangender man i have almost same strugless as Chiaki i read this story like 6 times im just so speechless how accurate Chiaki feels in every moment in his life i have same feeling and strugless as him im so amazed by it i never relate to a story this much in my life! I really hope one day i can be as brave and happy like my man Chiaki.

last edited at Apr 8, 2021 10:39AM

Lbeingrllygay
Hermes%20darker
joined Jan 21, 2019

it was a really different story from what I'm used to in dynasty, but it was good. I liked it.

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