I kinda don't like this whole rebellion thing being caused by some random third party and not, y'know, an organic result of a genuine class conscious taking form.

Could be both. Foreign power providing money and arms to disgruntled people, like France helping out the American Revolution.

(Edit: later saw the comments saying that is the case.)

last edited at Mar 7, 2022 6:05PM

That said, a lot of people are uncomfortable with incest for very good reasons (CSA among them). While I personally don't see love between siblings (in the very rare case it's reciprocal and stuff) as a moral failure, it's fair to let people be squicked.

CSA?

With the incest I am geniuenly quite shcoked at how I have seen quite a lot of people disgusted and shocked by it. I'll be honest, I am probably just really desensitize to it after having read lot of trashy manga

Heck have you been reading? I've read manga for the most of three decades and nothing really comes to mind.

Unless you are talking about hentai, I don't read that.

Citrus, a very popular yuri series about two step daughters which I would count as incest or at least pseudo incest, Oreimo, Kiss x sis, Eromanga sensei, S Rank Boukensha de aru Ore no Musume-tachi wa Juudo no Father Con deshita (about 3 adoptive daughters actively trying to bang their dad. Oh and also there is girl minor character in the series that does love one of the daughters but she is a rapist who wants to mind break the daugher so she marries her and actually says that to the fathers face asking for his permission to do it) and another I can't remember the name of but basically the first chapter was about a guy writing eromanga and his siscon story is terrible, so he goes home, dreams of banging his sister, turns out he did bang his sister as at the end of chapter 1 she looks psycho and has a pregnancy test. These are just a few, another good example is just look at the incest tag on this site or how a lot of echhi harems normally have a little sister trying to get their "Onii-Chan" and also none of the ones I listed are hentai.

You probably haven't seen much incest in your series because you probably filter your manga better, read atually good manga and don't read the few chapters of garbage series like I do. I normally only read the first 5 chapters because I am curious to how bad they will be.

last edited at Mar 7, 2022 6:36PM

a lot of people are uncomfortable with incest for very good reasons (CSA among them)

Yes, and a lot of people are uncomfortable with homosexuality for the same so-called "very good reasons", claiming that gay men are pedophiles because pedophiles that are gay exist. Conflating CSA with homosexuality was the exact same tactic used to justify persecution of gay people.

it's fair to let people be squicked.

Imagine saying this about homosexuality, that it's okay to go and proclaim how revolting you find just the sight of gay couples to be. Not gay sex, not a kiss, not even as much as physically touching each other at any point - just a brief mention of a gay couple in a piece of fiction immediately met with "wow, homosexuality is fucking disgusting, gross".

are you seriously equating being gay with being incestuous?

yes

How does homosexuality equate or compare to incest?

Literally every argument you can make for accepting homosexuality applies to incest, and literally every argument against incest was also used against homosexuality at one point (with the caveat of [not] having children being weaponised in different ways). That you think finding it "ick" is enough reason to justify hatred is the same reason homosexuals were (and in many places still are) oppressed for so long.

OK homophobe.

I am gay, which gives me all the more reason to call out the hypocrisy of the gay community. I've seen more than enough of other gay people trampling on trans people, incest, whatever minority they can find that's even lower on the social pecking order than they are to become disillusioned. It's fucking infuriating to see people who were subjected to oppression turn around and do the literal exact same thing to other people. I expect that from hets, certainly not a website dedicated to fiction about gay love.

Homosexuality isn't a perversion, unlike incest.

Who decides what a "perversion" is? You? If not you, then there are hundreds of millions of straight people out there who disagree and label homosexuality as a perversion to justify their bigotry, so congratulations, you're in the exact same camp as actual homophobes while accusing me of being one.

last edited at Mar 7, 2022 6:52PM

Don't worry you can be gay and homophobic you are right now, also don't bring trans people into this and stop equating us with incest. It's gross and dehumanizing, least of all the exact arguments homophobes use to justify their bigotry not the other way around.

last edited at Mar 7, 2022 6:55PM

Don't worry you can be gay and homophobic you are right now

What did I say that was homophobic? Is criticising the gay community for how it treats other minorities homophobic? If so, I guess I'm a homophobe. Didn't realise being gay was supposed to give us all a free pass to be bigots, maybe my pass got lost in the mail. But I mean, it's no big deal if I'm a homophobe, since, after all, we do get that free pass.

It's gross and dehumanizing

honestly all of you can go fuck yourselves, this is why i normally don't engage. literally nobody here has presented an argument about why incest is supposedly morally wrong, everyone just keeps calling it gross and disgusting and asserting that as fact. with the sole exception of the one person who equated incest to CSA

last edited at Mar 7, 2022 7:05PM

That said, a lot of people are uncomfortable with incest for very good reasons (CSA among them). While I personally don't see love between siblings (in the very rare case it's reciprocal and stuff) as a moral failure, it's fair to let people be squicked.

CSA?

Community Supported Agriculture, obviously

quick question to the people that now upcoming stuff.
Is this plot going more in the political-drama kinda direction and less in the school-life direction? would be good to know so I can stop if thats the case. Really liked the story but not soooo fond of this direction.

It gets more serious going on, yes. I wouldn't say its exclusively plotical drama though, also some relationship drama.

yeah dorothea is kinda hot. also the only adult woman in this series

speaking of wincest.. rei does mention how one of the possible revo lily routes is philine (daughter) x dorothea (mama). that route happening in the novel would be nice

Oh shit I didn't even realize that was Dorothea.

You really need VNs for the spiciest wincest. Between eroge and stuff like Game of Thrones I'm pretty much completely desensitized to it. Twincest is more the classic yuri trope, though. I remember liking Candy☆Boy quite a bit back when and there's always Mutually Unrequited Twin Sisters for something cute and contemporary.

and another I can't remember the name of but basically the first chapter was about a guy writing eromanga and his siscon story is terrible, so he goes home, dreams of banging his sister, turns out he did bang his sister as at the end of chapter 1 she looks psycho and has a pregnancy test.

This scenario sounds vaguely familiar... I'm really curious now. Reminds me of both ImoSae and Domestic Girlfriend but not quite either. Though most of the other manga and LN you listed is stepsiblings.

let me spell it out for you, you're being homophobic by equating being gay with incestuous relationships it really is that simple

as for why incestuous relationships in real life are bad and gross well.

First of all of course the matter of what happens to kids when both of their parents are closely related I don't think I have to explain that one in detail now do I?

Second incestuous relationships even outside of the issues with having kids are inherently incredibly wonky due to three big reasons, the inability to leave, power dynamics, and age gaps.

Now what do I mean by this, the inability to leave. In many cases if a familymember is coming on to you, you would not be able to simply leave and be certain that you'll never have to see them again, instead regardless of your own wants they will be able to insert themselves into your life largely whenever they want which is obviously bad.

Secondly, power dynamics. In a family people of previous generations often hold more respect and thus more power in this family, if they come on to you and you don't want them to it is your word against theirs and due to the closeness of your familial relationships this means that depending on how they are related to you they can do anything from turning your parents against you to being your parent and taking full control of your life. Due to this inherent wonkyness no incestuous relationship can really ever be truly even and thus is bad.

Age Gaps, normally not that big a deal as long as you're both adults, however due the relative closeness of family if one of your familymembers were to come on to you they will likely already be able to do before you are of age, depending on the circumstances they might not be of age either at that point but unless the person coming onto you is your twin they will be either older or younger.
Hold that though, if they're older and they come on to you that is effectively grooming, they are taking the power they hold over you and use it to make you think that an incestuous relationship is okay when it's not, if they're younger then you hold the responsibility to say no, because if you do say yes you are taking advantage of them, wow what a concept. Of course this all concerns underage relationships because once you are of age you are considered to be capable of understanding and making your own choices.

In effect there is a vanishingly small amount of scenario's in which an incestuous relationship would not be inherently toxic, abusive, or downright bad to whatever children you are planning to have. On the other hand gay relationships have next to none of these problems which is why equating the two is wrong, homophobic and of course incredibly gross. thank you for coming to my TED talk. I know I will not change your mind but at least now no one else will have to spend ten minutes typing an essay in an effort to lay this argument to rest

last edited at Mar 7, 2022 7:33PM

honestly all of you can go fuck yourselves, this is why i normally don't engage. literally nobody here has presented an argument about why incest is supposedly morally wrong, everyone just keeps calling it gross and disgusting and asserting that as fact. with the sole exception of the one person who equated incest to CSA

Since the offspring coming from incest could possibly end up with genetic problems I don't really agree with it irl, but in fiction I don't really care, people can write whatever the hell they want.

People, chill. I'm not here to see the Nez-bans, amusing as they are.

incest jumpscare wtf

People, chill. I'm not here to see the Nez-bans, amusing as they are.

yeah, holy cow. y'all are so unhinged.

That was a really chaotic chapter

boy, coming on here and finding ppl actually defending incest... like wat? also seeing people trying to equate or create a parallel between homosexuality and incest like the author is stupidly doing in this chapter, like wtf?

anyways, stupid incest plot point aside (honestly could've done without this being a thing in the story), interesting to see a character Rei has never seen before showing up and causing trouble. Might mean another isekai'd person or something is changing with the story due to something Rei did

last edited at Mar 7, 2022 10:51PM

Mod Note

Hi. We're not talking about Incest anymore. Any further off-topic posts on this issue will be deleted. Any desire to continue may be taken to the Cafe or any other non-manga thread you prefer. Thank you for your consideration of this message.

Jayxnoir posted:

How does homosexuality equate or compare to incest? You and your last brain cell need to reevaluate things before one of you decides to make a comment on a public forum.

Hello. Your response is needlessly personal and unproductive, please refrain from such responses in the future. Thank you.

856600 posted:

It's gross and dehumanizing

honestly all of you can go fuck yourselves

Right. We've been over this at least once before. None of your posts here related to the manga, only to the idea of real life incest between consenting adults, and how others perceive it. You've now turned unnecessarily personal towards...everyone. You've been banned for a short time for violation of rules 1 and 9. Please consider reading the rules before posting again. Thank you.

God I was not expecting the incest at all.

Credits page down bad

God I was not expecting the incest at all.

It actually blindsided me. Incest itself is surprising, that it's a major plot point even more so, let alone the fact that I haven't seen incest in a manga in a long time.

Anyways, Claire had some self-reflection, hooray for potential character development!

I kinda don't like this whole rebellion thing being caused by some random third party and not, y'know, an organic result of a genuine class conscious taking form.

don't look up what happened in russia from 1917 to 1922

Ofercrissakes, like the Russian revolution was the only example of class struggle in history. Here's a clue: Unless you're very very rich, nearly every good thing you have, you have because of successful class struggle. Less than a 12 hour day? Class struggle. The weekend? Class struggle. Wages good enough to let you afford whatever you're using to post stuff on the interwebs? Class struggle. The vote? Class struggle. Look up the history of trade unions, or the Chartist movement, sometime.
Of course a lot of the good stuff class struggle got us has been getting taken away lately . . . because of class warfare from the other direction.

I was wondering how they were going to portray the masked assassin and I'm very happy, just enough hints about their identity in the future without it screaming out

I'm sort of bummed to see so many people saying they're dipping out because the story shifted from being a school centered story. IMO, the Revolution setting is what helps set this story apart- especially with Claire's character development over the course of it- from the dozens of slice of life/school story yuri novels (as much as I love those stories). Book 2 is where the story really shines, and we haven't even gotten there yet! But, to each their own.

last edited at Mar 8, 2022 1:26AM

Ah yes there it is and I didn't like it since the novel but well...anyway I really like the rebellion and such so let's fucking gooooo

last edited at Mar 8, 2022 1:28AM

I'm enjoying the story.