Ahaha, seeing the cute side of "girl crushes" is always very gap moe~ Like seeing moonbyul from mamamoo acting cute always makes me squeal (≧▽≦)

I feel a bit bad for Chaeyeon, but I'm also enjoying her suffering.

I feel a bit bad for Chaeyeon, but I'm also enjoying her suffering.

I don't. I'm just enjoying it.
I also want to know which picture it was at the end of ch4.

One thing I didn't really like about the new translation is the use of Japanese honorifics in a Korean comic. Like, totally out of place...

Wow, bad part on her agency and manager to NOT TELL HER WTF SHE WAS GETTING INTO!!!! Like, what the hell?? I could understand if it was everyone being kept in the dark, but clearly they were fine with telling the other party.

One thing I didn't really like about the new translation is the use of Japanese honorifics in a Korean comic. Like, totally out of place...

I agree, it's a little grating. Not so much as to make me not enjoy reading mind, but it does give me pause

One thing I didn't really like about the new translation is the use of Japanese honorifics in a Korean comic. Like, totally out of place...

OG used the Korean translation, which used "-ssi" (pretty similar to "-san" like the Japanese version uses). Toeto had translated it as "Miss Swallow" which isn't inaccurate per se more that it conveys an old-fashioned sense to it which didn't really fit the modern tone. I am told that they later drop all honorifics, too, so there's really no way to properly localize it in a way that would maintain the original's meaning without having some random TL Note saying "PS, they dropped honorifics so pretend that they're more intimate and lovey-dovey" so we kept it the same

last edited at Feb 7, 2022 3:36PM

One thing I didn't really like about the new translation is the use of Japanese honorifics in a Korean comic. Like, totally out of place...

OG used the Korean translation, which used "-ssi" (pretty similar to "-san" like the Japanese version uses). Toeto had translated it as "Miss Swallow" which isn't inaccurate per se more that it conveys an old-fashioned sense to it which didn't really fit the modern tone. I am told that they later drop all honorifics, too, so there's really no way to properly localize it in a way that would maintain the original's meaning without having some random TL Note saying "PS, they dropped honorifics so pretend that they're more intimate and lovey-dovey" so we kept it the same

Couldn't you just use the Korean honorifics and then drop them when they drop them in the story?

Second, it doesn't matter what her intention was, what matters is that she made the other person uncomfortable and that needs to stop. Remember guys, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

A reminder that romance stories are not Human Resources Guides to Optimal Social Behavior.

If we got rid of every romance story that started off with one half of the MC pair getting flustered by the actions of the other, we'd have . . . a lot fewer romance stories.

Eh? A lot of romances depict pretty toxic behaviors and that's not a good thing. That said, there's a large difference between pointing out and discussing those behaviors and saying that you can't write a romance with them or even trying to disqualify a story as a romance.

Case in point, I think the way Seungha is treating Swallow is awful and no one should take it as a good template for romantic behavior. At the same time, her not being a particularly good person makes the story more interesting. Sure, I may be rooting for Swallow to slam the door in her face and find someone else, or at least dress her down enough to make her reevaluate and regret her behavior, but either way I'm still interested in where this story is going.

Also, the issue isn't so much that Swallow's getting "flustered" as she seems deeply uncomfortable with Seungha's behavior and presence, despite finding her physically attractive.

last edited at Feb 7, 2022 4:27PM

Case in point, I think the way Seungha is treating Swallow is awful and no one should take it as a good template for romantic behavior.

Discussing specific stories and how they work is a separate endeavor from writing moralizing lectures addressed to hypothetical readers who are under the delusion that fiction functions as a guidebook to praiseworthy real-life behavior.

You may take it as a given that the character is "distressed" and therefore the other character is "toxic," but clearly the story disagrees with your value judgment.

One thing I didn't really like about the new translation is the use of Japanese honorifics in a Korean comic. Like, totally out of place...

I agree, it's a little grating. Not so much as to make me not enjoy reading mind, but it does give me pause

Glad I'm not the only one who gets a little irritated when people use Japanese honorifics in translations of Korean webtoons. It's just so strange and weird. Keeping -ssi and -nim would have been totally fine, with a little translator note or something for people who are not familiar about Korean honorifics.

last edited at Feb 7, 2022 7:22PM

Case in point, I think the way Seungha is treating Swallow is awful and no one should take it as a good template for romantic behavior.

Discussing specific stories and how they work is a separate endeavor from writing moralizing lectures addressed to hypothetical readers who are under the delusion that fiction functions as a guidebook to praiseworthy real-life behavior.

You may take it as a given that the character is "distressed" and therefore the other character is "toxic," but clearly the story disagrees with your value judgment.

Oh, well, if "the story" has spoken, I guess I should change my own ethics to fit, shouldn't I?
No, really, this isn't "flustered" like you said higher up. This is upset and distressed. Which the author may think is cute, but that doesn't stop it from actually being cringey.

It's actually that combination that bugs me--I'm sometimes up for a manga or toon or whatever that's about train wreck relationships and dysfunctional people who harm each other. And even if they're not something I actually feel like reading, I won't say they're a bad story if they're done well. But generally not if the authorial voice is trying to say this is how things OUGHT to be. If the author is showing a dysfunctional, harmful relationship AS IF it's just the most romantic thing, that creeps me out. It's like the difference between "A story about racism" and "Some butthead telling a racist joke".

Case in point, I think the way Seungha is treating Swallow is awful and no one should take it as a good template for romantic behavior.

Discussing specific stories and how they work is a separate endeavor from writing moralizing lectures addressed to hypothetical readers who are under the delusion that fiction functions as a guidebook to praiseworthy real-life behavior.

You may take it as a given that the character is "distressed" and therefore the other character is "toxic," but clearly the story disagrees with your value judgment.

Oh, well, if "the story" has spoken, I guess I should change my own ethics to fit, shouldn't I?
No, really, this isn't "flustered" like you said higher up. This is upset and distressed. Which the author may think is cute, but that doesn't stop it from actually being cringey.

It's actually that combination that bugs me--I'm sometimes up for a manga or toon or whatever that's about train wreck relationships and dysfunctional people who harm each other. And even if they're not something I actually feel like reading, I won't say they're a bad story if they're done well. But generally not if the authorial voice is trying to say this is how things OUGHT to be. If the author is showing a dysfunctional, harmful relationship AS IF it's just the most romantic thing, that creeps me out. It's like the difference between "A story about racism" and "Some butthead telling a racist joke".

Who said anything about "changing your own ethics"? If you disapprove of represented behavior, knock yourself out deploring it, or cringe away to your heart's content.

The idea that stories constitute an author's personal treatise on "how things ought to be," and that, as in the post I was responding to, unwary readers need to be solemnly warned not to emulate that fictional behavior in their own lives is, to say the least, quite foreign to how I understand fiction to work.

last edited at Feb 7, 2022 7:56PM

LESBIAN ADULT IDOLS WHO LOOK THEIR AGE? AND A TOMBOY BULLY TURNED ACTRESS BACK TO FINISH WHAT SHE STARTED? FINALLY SOME GOOD FUCKING FOOD. WHO HAS A FORK.

Couldn't you just use the Korean honorifics and then drop them when they drop them in the story?

Glad I'm not the only one who gets a little irritated when people use Japanese honorifics in translations of Korean webtoons. It's just so strange and weird. Keeping -ssi and -nim would have been totally fine, with a little translator note or something for people who are not familiar about Korean honorifics.

The translation we are using is the Japanese version, which came out at the same time as the Korean version. It's only half true to say that it's a Korean webtoon considering Tima is bilingual in both languages and releases both versions at the same time. However, she's also natively Japanese, publishing from Japan, and the Japanese version has extra content that the Korean version does not (case in point, the panel extras in our version that were absent from Toeto's version). Aside from the Korean names, it's safe to just consider this a Japanese webcomic and roll with it; not to mention our team only has Japanese translators so that's what we went for.

That said, going with "ssi" would be just as strange as "san" and, as said before, going with Toeto's old-fashioned "Miss" would also be unfitting. We coulda dropped honorifics but then we'd have to do something silly, later, like provide a TL note telling you that they dropped honorifics and are now acting all lovey-dovey with each other but that alone would be a controversial decision. Ultimately, keeping it in line with the translation we're using just seemed like the safest option.

LESBIAN ADULT IDOLS WHO LOOK THEIR AGE? AND A TOMBOY BULLY TURNED ACTRESS BACK TO FINISH WHAT SHE STARTED? FINALLY SOME GOOD FUCKING FOOD. WHO HAS A FORK.

Finally, a man of culture who understands how wholesome and steamy this series truly is! That being said...

Guys, I assure you that this series is more wholesome than you think it is. Don't let the steam get the better of ya.

last edited at Feb 7, 2022 9:29PM

I dont know if this dynamic is toxic or wholesome but id rather just continue reading it to see how it goes

I dont know if this dynamic is toxic or wholesome but id rather just continue reading it to see how it goes

That sounds like a really good idea to me.

Solid gold! Big thanks for translating!

Note for those reading too much into it: facial expressions are not universal and vary both from person to person and culture to culture. As Swallow has not outright stated her feelings for the reader to hear, only the author definitively knows what she is feeling on the shock scale. Pretty sure that is what the other user meant about the author’s part in interpretation.

My take: Swallow is easily embarrassed and has a nervous personality, which makes her more nervous when she cannot hide it (in front of Seungha especially). She just thinks she’s supposed to be cool even if that isn’t her. (And Seungha has her figured out on that front.)

Guys, I assure you that this series is more wholesome than you think it is. Don't let the steam get the better of ya.

That's the cue I was waiting for, thank you. Like Purple Library Guy, I have been thoroughly weirded out by the series' presentation of Swallow's intense discomfort as something romantic and cute, but you seem to say that said discomfort isn't actual traumatic stress, so I will read on to see for myself if that is correct. :-)

We're only four chapters in, so we're still getting to know the characters, but from what I can tell, Seungha seems to be the kind of person who teases people she likes. Perhaps, to her, it's completely harmless because she doesn't have bad intentions. However, to someone like Chaeyeon, who is introverted and easily nervous, it's not playful at all. It's just uncomfortable and embarrassing.

I don't want to excuse Seungha's behavior nor invalidate Chaeyeon's feelings. Even if you genuinely did not mean harm, actions have consequences. And if the recipient of said actions--who will be most affected by them--deem you a bully for how you treat them, then you ARE a bully. Plain and simple. That said, I don't think Seungha is this malicious, manipulative person. I think she's just immature and needs to learn that not everyone will take to teasing lightly, as well as understand that she actually affected Chaeyeon in a negative way.

I think this would make a good point of conflict between the two (it's already shaping up to be), as well as make them get to know each other better. And in stories like this, that's always a good thing, imo.

So... sort of like the time when Jihan of Weeekly got set up on a surprise "friendship date" with Olivia Hye from Loona, of whom Jihan was a big fan.

We're only four chapters in, so we're still getting to know the characters, but from what I can tell, Seungha seems to be the kind of person who teases people she likes. Perhaps, to her, it's completely harmless because she doesn't have bad intentions. However, to someone like Chaeyeon, who is introverted and easily nervous, it's not playful at all. It's just uncomfortable and embarrassing.

We haven't seen nearly enough textual evidence to be able to assert that Chaeyon is ordinarily "introverted and easily nervous." In fact, she's described as usually being "cool," and she starts out the session assuming that she'll be in control when she offers to guide Seungha through the lesbian-themed photoshoot.

Seungha's "teasing" amounts to telling Chaeyon that they were classmates when they were 10 years old, praising her grown-up looks, and suggesting a reversal in the top-bottom roles as they model. Certainly Chaeyon is taken aback by the revelation that the famous actress who she admires was her 4th-grade "bully," as her persistent sweat drop suggests.

But I just reread this series carefully (in both available translations) and I'm simply not seeing how Seungha did anything inappropriate during the (highly successful) photoshoot nor how the feelings that Chaeyon expresses must unquestionably be read as deep emotional distress rather than a mixture of any number of milder responses, including surprise at the role reversal, confusion about Seungha's identity, arousal at the physical situation, etc.

Yes, it's early days in regard to the full nature of the characters (and the story is likely going to pay a fair amount of attention to the numerous side characters), but except for the gorgeous painted art, this strikes me as a bog-standard "reversal" romance intro, where an initially confident MC gets rocked back on their heels by the appearance of an unexpected love interest from their past.

last edited at Feb 8, 2022 12:52PM

We're only four chapters in, so we're still getting to know the characters, but from what I can tell, Seungha seems to be the kind of person who teases people she likes. Perhaps, to her, it's completely harmless because she doesn't have bad intentions. However, to someone like Chaeyeon, who is introverted and easily nervous, it's not playful at all. It's just uncomfortable and embarrassing.

We haven't seen nearly enough textual evidence to be able to assert that Chaeyon is ordinarily "introverted and easily nervous." In fact, she's described as usually being "cool," and she starts out the session assuming that she'll be in control when she offers to guide Seungha through the lesbian-themed photoshoot.

Seungha's "teasing" amounts to telling Chaeyon that they were classmates when they were 10 years old, praising her grown-up looks, and suggesting a reversal in the top-bottom roles as they model. Certainly Chaeyon is taken aback by the revelation that the famous actress who she admires was her 4th-grade "bully," as her persistent sweat drop suggests.

But I just reread this series carefully (in both available translations) and I'm simply not seeing how Seungha did anything inappropriate during the (highly successful) photoshoot nor how the feelings that Chaeyon expresses must unquestionably be read as deep emotional distress rather than a mixture of any number of milder responses, including surprise at the role reversal, confusion about Seungha's identity, arousal at the physical situation, etc.

Yes, it's early days in regard to the full nature of the characters (and the story is likely going to pay a fair amount of attention to the numerous side characters), but except for the gorgeous painted art, this strikes me as a bog-standard "reversal" romance intro, where an initially confident MC gets rocked back on their heels by the appearance of an unexpected love interest from their past.

True, we haven't seen enough yet, hence why I said, "We're only four chapters in." But just going from what I'm seeing so far and my own interpretations, I get the impression that Chaeyeon's "coolness" is either a persona she puts up or a personality trait she leans into a lot to hide her nervousness. It's evident she dislikes not being in control of a situation (e.g. the role reversal at the photoshoot, the sudden request of her appearance at a variety show, etc.), which is common in people who get anxious easily (speaking as someone who gets nervous and paranoid easily).

And I agree with Seungha's "teasing" during the photoshoot. I think it's harmless and really isn't a big deal. But I disagree with Chaeyeon just being mildly surprised and thrown off. I do think she's genuinely uncomfortable. Perhaps not in "deep emotional distress," but definitely in a "I really don't like this situation right now" way. Because Seungha's "teasing" wasn't perceived as harmless for Chaeyeon when they were kids.

From what the flashbacks show, she clearly did not like how she was the target of Seungha's attention and their classmates looking on probably made her feel almost humiliated. When you're 10-years-old, it's a lot to handle. So, naturally, as a 10-year-old, I'd imagine Chaeyeon interpreted Seungha's harmless teasing as bullying. And now that they're reunited as adults, I'd also imagine that Chaeyeon's perspective of Seungha hasn't really changed since it's been over a decade since they last saw each other.

But what do I know? Like I said, we're very early into the story, and I'm overanalyzing things because I'm tired. Let's just enjoy this for what it is and see how it plays out.

One thing I had not previously noticed is that Chaeyon's sweat drop (indicating whatever aroused emotion it may indicate) first appears while she is waiting to meet Seungha for (what she thinks is) the first time, and it (along with a slight blush) remains there throughout the introduction (and of course for most of the rest of the photoshoot).

While I was mistaken in my previous post (it's Pearl who explicitly is the big Seungha fan, not Chaeyon), it is clear that pop singer/model Chaeyon already starts out with some kind of heightened emotion about meeting and working with actress/model Seungha.

(I also think that the progress of Chaeyon's emotions concerning Seungha in these chapters is a good deal more various, nuanced, and ambiguous than the extreme "fight or flight" response that a number of readers have projected onto her.)

I just reread this series carefully (in both available translations)

Tbf, both "translations" are nearly identical. In fact, we basically just copied Toeto's version an just edited some of the lines for grammar and context. Overall, though, everything was kept the same. That said, we just now switched over to our own TL, with Chapter 4, so feel free to compare it to the OG and provide feedback as to the translation

last edited at Feb 8, 2022 4:26PM

I just reread this series carefully (in both available translations)

Tbf, both "translations" are nearly identical. In fact, we basically just copied Toeto's version an just edited some of the lines for grammar and context. Overall, though, everything was kept the same. That said, we just now switched over to our own TL, with Chapter 4, so feel free to compare it to the OG and provide feedback as to the translation

I was just double-checking each chapter to make sure I hadn't missed anything in my reading. (Only the Toeto version has that list of characters at the end of Chapter 1, however.)