Forum › Kami eshi JK to OL fujoshi discussion
I have no real feelings to express towards the teacher being an ex-mangaka. Assuming Ai-san is as predictable as she seems and would only follow BL artists, that means sensei is also a fujoshi. I am not surprised. Her concerns towards turning a hobby into a job is indeed not unwarranted. This can happen a lot. I have seen it with writers and video-game enthusiasts and even chefs. A profession requires stricter guidelines, deadlines and someone who judges your effort commercially, which is always harsher than judging a hobbyist.
I dont believe this chapter had any narrative reason to appear at this point in the timeline however. It did add nothing to the current arc. Misumi was already certain of her path and the teacher was convinced in the same chapter she even created the conflict. I suppose there is not much reason for her and Ai-san to ever meet otherwise, so the author was forced to work it in here.
Misumi is 16 as of the start of the series, and I believe it has been far less than a year since then. At best she's 17, she may actually still be 16.
Also, Yoshioka has raised concern about criminal charges at least twice, and Aizawa expressed the same concern after Misumi slept in the futon with her.back in chapter 5. If the characters in-universe are raising the concern, I don't think it's too far-fetched.
I am sorry, but the previous chapter established they are third years about to graduate. There is no argument for your side. Even the youngest third years are 17 and I doubt she is that far away from her next birthday. The circumstances would have to be incredibly unfavorable for this to be a concern even in the nearest future.
Yoshioka also doesn't know Misumi's age I believe and based this entirely on her being a high schooler. Ai-san is also the type to be always anxious. Regardless of legality, socially it is still hardly accepted.
last edited at Dec 21, 2021 1:05AM
I mean, realistically, IRL I would not be very happy if my daughter was dating a way older partner. From what I've seen, even without malice, that doesn't tend to work out well. Different stations in life.
AI doesn't strike me as a good writer. She loves things too much. She'd probably be too self-indulgent, put in all her favorite things. Like, imagine Ai exercising narrative restraint or killing her darlings.
(sigh) Oh, fine, I'll give it the full Sherlock.
Misumi is 16 as of the start of the series, and I believe it has been far less than a year since then. At best she's 17, she may actually still be 16.
Also, Yoshioka has raised concern about criminal charges at least twice, and Aizawa expressed the same concern after Misumi slept in the futon with her.back in chapter 5. If the characters in-universe are raising the concern, I don't think it's too far-fetched.
I am sorry, but the previous chapter established they are third years about to graduate. There is no argument for your side. Even the youngest third years are 17 and I doubt she is that far away from her next birthday. The circumstances would have to be incredibly unfavorable for this to be a concern even in the nearest future.
On the contrary, The manga is explicit on this. She did all the kissing and touching stuff while Misumi was still a minor.
(for one thing, 17 is still underage.)
When they first meet in person, it's at a doujin event at the Big Sight, which means Comiket.
From all the heavy coats in that scene it's probably the winter comiket, which means december-ish.
They meet again at another, smaller event not long after and start going out.
They go on a date not long after that...
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/kami_eshi_jk_to_ol_fujoshi_ch02#22
She is a 2nd year when they meet and go on their first date, and she explicitly says she is 16. We don't know exactly when this scene takes place, but she wouldn't call herself a 2nd year before her 1st year ended. This has to be before July because of the next event, so we're somewhere between mid april and mid june when they have their first date
Now, she might be weeks away from 17. That's definitely possible. I would think she would have thrown that out there if it were the case, since she's trying to court someone much older than her.
The next event is in July, (summer comiket, back at the big sight)
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/kami_eshi_jk_to_ol_fujoshi_ch04#16
(also a bit before this we find out the story takes place in 2018, because you actually see date stamps on one of the phone conversations!)
After this event, she sleeps over at Ai's house and has a panic moment when they wake up in the same bed, because, y'know, she's 16, and for someone over 20 to sleep with somebody under 18 is a misdemeanor. They didn't actually do anything sexual, but if she had, that would be actual legal trouble.
http://helpto.pro/age-of-consent-in-japan-and-why-it-so-low/
Later, Ai attends Misumi's cultural festival, which would be in November, and after that Agrioka ends and the call by the publisher to do the manga adaptation. Misumi goes to meet the editor and reaffirms that at this point she is still a 2nd year high school student. That means we're still under a year from that first date.
This means, by the way, when they first met, Misumi was a first year. It also places their first date 8 or 9 months prior.
Next thing is the zoo collab, at which point everybody is in heavy coats, so this is still winter. First kiss, definitely less than a year from when she explicitly said she was 16.
Then there's the wedding, and then finally Misumi's third year starts.
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/kami_eshi_jk_to_ol_fujoshi_ch16#6
That puts this in April, Over a year since they met but less than a year since the first date where she said she was 16. That means, at best, she's 17 at this point.
Then we have Comitia, that's in May, and the sleepover with Madoromi and Misumi is that night, and the next day is the shopping for underwear scene, with the kiss and the boob touch. The flashback to the end of that scene even explicitly says she's still underage.
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/kami_eshi_jk_to_ol_fujoshi_ch21#13
So yeah, about a year, possibly less, since they started dating (although when I said "far less" I was definitely wrong) and she's still underage. We don't know exactly how old she is or when her birthday comes, she could be freshly 17, or 17 going on 18, but either way she's still definitely explicitly a minor at this point.
Yoshioka also doesn't know Misumi's age I believe and based this entirely on her being a high schooler. Ai-san is also the type to be always anxious. Regardless of legality, socially it is still hardly accepted.
(Yoshioka based this on her being a high schooler because anybody that is a high schooler is likely to be a minor, and Misumi explicitly is.)
Again, I'm not saying that Ai is going to go to jail, or that she's breaking the law, I'm saying her behavior is bordering on risky, In an explicit, objective sense, both by the standards of the real world and by the standards set within the context of the fiction itself.
last edited at Dec 21, 2021 3:48AM
Sensei sure is full of surprises. But even her story can't discourage Misumi, quite the opposite. ^_^
(sigh) Oh, fine, I'll give it the full Sherlock.
I feel sorry that you wasted your time, seeing as our conclusions ended up exactly the same...
1. She is at least 17, quite likely nearing 18 (if not basically 18 already).
2. According to even the highest age of consent law everything past 18 with consent goes.
Nothing you said by going through the timeline of events changed these core points, sorry.
(Yoshioka based this on her being a high schooler because anybody that is a high schooler is likely to be a minor, and Misumi explicitly is.)
Again, I'm not saying that Ai is going to go to jail, or that she's breaking the law, I'm saying her behavior is bordering on risky, In an explicit, objective sense, both by the standards of the real world and by the standards set within the context of the fiction itself.
Hmm, you did quite obviously imply that she can be legally held accountable. That is what breaking the law means. And if you werent getting at that your entire approach would be meaningless and I have no earthly idea what the point of this conversation is.
I can only reiterate what I said from the beginning: Soon there can be no legal ramifications for their relationship and nobody can actually prove anything happened between them. With consent, even the worst outcome of their physical interactions somehow being exposed is barely a misdemeanor according to Japanese law anywhere as far as I can tell.
So really at worst the parents can press her to break up with their daughter (as long as both deny having crossed any lines) until she turns 18, after which they can simply do what they want. I believe there is no way you can contradict this assessment and that's the only thing I have actually asserted. To avoid this becoming too repetitive, let us just drop it, shall we?
Looking back, she never said the person she wants to be with in tokyo was a love interest did she- or was that somehow implied in the japanese words she used? Ai san never specificaly said she needed to greet her parents as her lover either.
She might just introduce herself as someone who loves her art and wants to support her creative endevours in Tokyo? I hope its not done like that but its a way around getting too serious if they want to.
last edited at Dec 21, 2021 4:45AM
Looking back, she never said the person she wants to be with in tokyo was a love interest did she- or was that somehow implied in the japanese words she used?
Surely wanting to be with someone implies the same in any language. It would be different if it had been something like "someone she can stay with", but wanting to be with someone implies much more stronger feelings.
^ depends on the japanese tho- it is a lot vauger on stuff like that. Also it could be someone she really admires and looks up to- she could want to be with them in that case too.
Not that I think you are wrong- it does seem more likely it was meant and taken in a romantic sense- I was just thinking they could dodge it like that if they wanted- but I hope they wont.
last edited at Dec 21, 2021 5:54AM
So really at worst the parents can press her to break up with their daughter (as long as both deny having crossed any lines) until she turns 18, after which they can simply do what they want. I believe there is no way you can contradict this assessment and that's the only thing I have actually asserted. To avoid this becoming too repetitive, let us just drop it, shall we?
Yeah, it's not ideal to continue going through circles on what is highly likely a tertiary topic to the actual manga. I'd appreciate if the topic was dropped. Thanks.
last edited at Dec 21, 2021 12:03PM
I wonder if the teacher's disappearance was mentioned before by Ai san, I think she did briefly as an anecdote but I might be wrong.
I wonder if the teacher's disappearance was mentioned before by Ai san, I think she did briefly as an anecdote but I might be wrong.
YESSSS There it is, all I had was a feeling, not even a clear memory, thank you very much for finding it! now that we go back, the teacher's disappearance was the trigger for Ai san to become... uhmmm like "that" with Misumi san.
Oh yeah, it's all coming together.
last edited at Dec 21, 2021 1:43PM
I wonder if the teacher's disappearance was mentioned before by Ai san, I think she did briefly as an anecdote but I might be wrong.
That was a long con, but dang if it didn't pay off.
last edited at Dec 21, 2021 2:41PM
I wonder if the teacher's disappearance was mentioned before by Ai san, I think she did briefly as an anecdote but I might be wrong.
Imagine if Ai-san had found the strength to give the teacher that sort of overwhelming praise when she first began to falter. They very easily could have started going out instead
While the way Camuno was forced to spill the beans by randomly running into Ai and then happening to sit next to her definitely felt forced, it's fun to see how she of all people is the one who indirectly kickstarted the current plot.
^ depends on the japanese tho- it is a lot vauger on stuff like that. Also it could be someone she really admires and looks up to- she could want to be with them in that case too.
Not that I think you are wrong- it does seem more likely it was meant and taken in a romantic sense- I was just thinking they could dodge it like that if they wanted- but I hope they wont.
My knowledge of subtle details in Japanese is still lacking, but as far as I could tell, the way Misumi told this to her parents didn't imply anything romantic. She deflected it.
『私 東京で 一緒になりたい人がいるの…』
"There is someone I want to be with in Tokyo..."
So it's all about whether Aizawa spills the beans with her usual hysterical honesty, or she manages to mesh in with Misumi's vagueness, like some have suggested.
Can't wait for next chapter!!!
I am rooting for OL/JK and still believe OL can write while JK draws. That said, whether JK is now 18, or if she's 17 (or even still 16, which seems unlikely) it's no tragedy. at most they have to wait about a year to date. This isn't like Tae-chan and Mai-chan. Also, the parents seem concerned but understanding. The reason I think OL can write is she helped create a character. The idea that she'd just burble doesn't work, or JK wouldn't admire her so much.
I am rooting for OL/JK and still believe OL can write while JK draws. That said, whether JK is now 18, or if she's 17 (or even still 16, which seems unlikely) it's no tragedy. at most they have to wait about a year to date. This isn't like Tae-chan and Mai-chan. Also, the parents seem concerned but understanding. The reason I think OL can write is she helped create a character. The idea that she'd just burble doesn't work, or JK wouldn't admire her so much.
Counterpoint, 17 year olds generally have low standards.
last edited at Jan 29, 2022 8:55PM
End of this chapter like
Ai-san may be a weirdo but heck if she ain't an honest and earnest weirdo. Gotta give her credit for being unwilling to start her cohabitation with Misumi and the relationship to her parents under false pretenses even though those would've made things easier for them
They will call the cops, right?
Ai-san may be a weirdo but heck if she ain't an honest and earnest weirdo. Gotta give her credit for being unwilling to start her cohabitation with Misumi and the relationship to her parents under false pretenses even though those would've made things easier for them
True, true, true. I’m honestly glad she came out and said it. It’s definitely not ideal from a parent's perspective, and there are issues around potential grooming and the like, but a big upside….no accidental pregnancies…Also, the fact that she’s being open about this should help Misumi’s parents sort out their feelings once they recover from the shock.
I admire Ai's resolve. It takes a lot of bravery to commit such dignity-suicide in front of your girl's parents.
Every chapter of this still makes me smile. I just can't quite work out why it is so compelling for me properly yet.
Ai-san may be a weirdo but heck if she ain't an honest and earnest weirdo. Gotta give her credit for being unwilling to start her cohabitation with Misumi and the relationship to her parents under false pretenses even though those would've made things easier for them
I think it was a case of picking one's poison. If they were ever going to come clean, the sooner the better.
Thanks as always for the update Daphie <3 Can't believe Ai-san really is going full throttle for this one but it's also nice to see how she's stepping up her game and having more confidence in herself.