Mei-bot struggling to decide whether to kill John Connor or destroy Neo

I think my main problem with this sequel series is that I had hoped that Mei would be more honest and genuine about her feelings and instead she seems to have regressed (or been replaced by an unfeeling killing machine)

Is Mei a robot? I stopped reading before the end of the original series and just popped in for a chapter. What in the actual fuck happened to her character? This reads like some mind break shit.

Is Mei a robot? I stopped reading before the end of the original series and just popped in for a chapter. What in the actual fuck happened to her character? This reads like some mind break shit.

Saburouta forgot How Do I Wrote Character? is all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm so conflicted with some parts in this chapter, but more importantly.... THE FnCKING TEASE of them in the bed again! just bitter-sweet....
Thanks for the TL again! <3

cuuuuute

But it's weird seeing the responses here.

Of course Mei doesn't know what the fuck to do, she's an r*pe and assault victim who is now with a lovely golden retriever whom she does love.

Again, this assertion is based on no evidence in the text except a single unwelcome kiss from her (now ex-)fiancé in the very first chapter of the original series.

Nothing in all the many subsequent chapters has suggested that Mei now acts the way she does because she's a traumatized victim of sexual violence.

last edited at Sep 19, 2021 11:23PM

The people who are dead set on defending mei seem to think we all just want them to fuck but like, no? I couldn't give a shit if they go to bed or not, it's just bullshit that mei regressed so much and that I have to look at yuzu getting ignored trying her best as if she was talking to a wall. It's her fucking birthday too you can't tell me mei couldn't make room to spend a day with her instead of working all day when yuzu expressed the desire to spend time with her before the day came. Like, stop your fucking bullshit about "you just want them to have sex" Mei is being an awful partner, is inconsiderate and doesn't try in the least to reciprocate yuzu's feelings. The sexual assault stuff is an insane leap of assumptions too, and even then it wouldn't keep her from, you know, spending a day with yuzu on her birthday.

Yes we're not gonna except mei to suddenly act super bubbly and be totally receptive to everything yuzu does, but I ain't excepting her to get more robot-like each time either.

last edited at Sep 19, 2021 11:41PM

Sabu better be building something good here. Either a pinch of jealousy or spoonful of angst. The same bland scene gets old and it's hard to keep interested when there's so many to read.

cuuuuute

But it's weird seeing the responses here.

Of course Mei doesn't know what the fuck to do, she's an r*pe and assault victim who is now with a lovely golden retriever whom she does love.

Again, this assertion is based on no evidence in the text except a single unwelcome kiss from her (now ex-)fiancé in the very first chapter of the original series.

Nothing in all the many subsequent chapters has suggested that Mei now acts the way she does because she's a traumatized victim of sexual violence.

I find it weird that some people, in the comment sections, seem to find sexual assault around every corner, and others refuse to see it anywhere.

I hope Sabu will show August 8th on volume extras.
when there's drama, people complain~ without drama, they still complain lul

Thats it? They seemed like they were hyping this birthday chapter up but Mei spent it avoiding Yuzu and it wasnt all that cute with Mei acting like her autistic self. Bleh

this is the author's problem she wants Mei to be so complicated and hard to understand that she herself the creator gets confused or doesn't know her own creation. lol. If you read shoujo manga this is the typical "suddenly the MC/ML becomes so dumb for the sake of the story."

note: also what's we the SA/r*pe comments are we reading the same story? coz you're making it sound like a "fact" that this event happened when it's not.

Thats it? They seemed like they were hyping this birthday chapter up but Mei spent it avoiding Yuzu and it wasnt all that cute with Mei acting like her autistic self. Bleh

maybe I'm the only one who thinks that this is not yet the birthday chapter but the aftermath of the birthday chapter Yuzu's birthday was on aug 8 but this is dated aug 14 but they said that on yuzu's birthday after having her birthday party with Harumi she'll be home and that's when Mei gonna give her the gift, so maybe there's an extra chapter detailing about what happened on her birthday.

Mei’s progress is undeniably slow but she has been repressed since childhood so I get it. I personally like that they’re trying to reach a new level of intimacy.

Their relationship before was sexual, lust driven, filled with doubt and secrecy. Every minute was stolen between them so steps were rushed…. Now they can take their time. And as we see with Mei, she needs it. But we’re seeing maybe Yuzu needs it as well. I mean, being patient with your lover is all well and good but she has to assert her needs some times as well.

The balance still hasn’t been reached. It’s still Yuzu giving and Mei receiving. The difference now is that Mei is aware that Yuzu is sacrificing for her and seems to be appreciative but is unaccustomed to such emotions so she doesn’t know how to respond let alone reciprocate.

I mean, she doesn’t really have any good role models so she’s pretty much gotta figure everything out her self while balancing all her responsibilities and expectations.

Mei has to learn how to love before she and Yuzu can take the next step in their relationship.

While it isn’t explicitly stated that her first Ex Fiancé raped her I think people have a right to assume that it wasn’t the first time he’s assaulted her. He was a predator with the intention for marrying her for money and prestige all while keeping a mistress on the side. To top it off, he was a teacher who molested a student on school grounds. That means he was confident that she won’t say any thing which can lead one to believe he’s conditioned her into accepting what he wants because he is to be her future husband. He certainly treated her like an object and was a scumbag so I understand why people believe he assaulted her repeatedly… It’s not been addressed explicitly and some need more than inferences in order to form a concrete conclusion.

Mei’s detached passive behavior reads very much like that of a trauma survivor so it’s understandable that people assume she’s a victim of sexual assault.

last edited at Sep 20, 2021 4:36AM

While it isn’t explicitly stated that her first Ex Fiancé raped her I think people have a right to assume that it wasn’t the first time he’s assaulted her.

No, they don’t. To do so is a violation of the basic premise in literary analysis that interpretations need to be based on the totality of evidence actually presented within the text, not on headcanon or on desperate attempts to make a characterization fit a preconceived set of premises.

Given the plotting and structuring of the two Citrus series, to believe that Saburouta is the kind of supremely subtle author who would base the entire portrayal of Mei Aihara’s psychology on a history of sexual trauma but never say or show anything at all about it after the very first chapter is simply preposterous.

We’ve been told and shown again and again that Mei is the way she is because she was raised in a very traditional family with an extremely rigid set of behavioral rules and social expectations leading her to take on an emotionally crippling sense of responsibility, coupled with a feeling of abandonment and betrayal when her father left the family and the school.

Yes, the experience with the fiancé led her to look at physical intimacy as something that was transactional and about power, but that’s the very first thing her experience with Yuzu’s affection taught her was incorrect.

Granted, in the end, people have the “right” to believe anything they want to about the story. They can believe that Mei is autistic, or an alien, or a killer android from the future. They can’t pretend that’s based on a conscientious and internally consistent reading of the text, however.

last edited at Sep 20, 2021 7:47AM

While it isn’t explicitly stated that her first Ex Fiancé raped her I think people have a right to assume that it wasn’t the first time he’s assaulted her.

No, they don’t. To do so is a violation of the basic premise in literary analysis that interpretations need to be based on the totality of evidence actually presented within the text, not on headcanon or on desperate attempts to make a characterization fit a preconceived set of premises.

So I guess subtext just doesn't exist?
Mei saying that "This is what a real kiss is like" combined with the things anim8tur pointed out while not explicitly stating "Mei's been assaulted before" does still imply it. It's up to interpretation

Granted, in the end, people have the “right” to believe anything they want to about the story. They can believe that Mei is autistic, or an alien, or a killer android from the future. They can’t pretend that’s based on a conscientious and internally consistent reading of the text, however.

But it is though. I very recently reread the series and I could easily read her as autistic from the beginning and nothing throughout the series ever really conflicted with that while many things (her impulsive behaviour in general, her difficulty in reading people's emotions, her inability to express herself, the entirety of chapter 22, etc) ended up affirming it.
"Mei is autistic" is 100% internally consistent even though almost certainly not intended.

(and just to clarify, I'm not saying "Mei is autistic" I'm saying "Mei can be read as autistic")

Mei’s progress is undeniably slow but she has been repressed since childhood so I get it. I personally like that they’re trying to reach a new level of intimacy.

Their relationship before was sexual, lust driven, filled with doubt and secrecy. Every minute was stolen between them so steps were rushed…. Now they can take their time.
[...]
While it isn’t explicitly stated that her first Ex Fiancé raped her I think people have a right to assume that it wasn’t the first time he’s assaulted her. He was a predator with the intention for marrying her for money and prestige all while keeping a mistress on the side. To top it off, he was a teacher who molested a student on school grounds. That means he was confident that she won’t say any thing which can lead one to believe he’s conditioned her into accepting what he wants because he is to be her future husband. He certainly treated her like an object and was a scumbag so I understand why people believe he assaulted her repeatedly… It’s not been addressed explicitly and some need more than inferences in order to form a concrete conclusion.

Mei’s detached passive behavior reads very much like that of a trauma survivor so it’s understandable that people assume she’s a victim of sexual assault.

While I do believe that the forced kiss we see on the first chapter likely wouldn't have been the only one, I seriously doubt it had ever escalated to rape. And even though I agree that Mei sometimes acted in a way that would suggest that she was a rape victim in the original series, considering how this was never actually addressed, I believe it was probably unintentional on the author's side, who only wanted to portray Mei as a very repressed individual. And even if she actually had been raped (which I seriously doubt) it certainly wouldn't have been "multiple men in her life", as someone here mentioned.

**Edit:

Given the plotting and structuring of the two Citrus series, to believe that Saburouta is the kind of supremely subtle author who would base the entire portrayal of Mei Aihara’s psychology on a history of sexual trauma but never say or show anything at all about it after the very first chapter is simply preposterous.

Hahaha yes, exactly that. I don't mean to say that Saburouta is a terrible author, but let's not forget that she has a habit of introducing new characters whenever she doesn't know how to progress the plot... Doesn't really seem like the type of author that would rely on such subtle hints...
**

Regardless of all this, on the matter of Mei-bot, I feel like I'd have to reread the original series to have a better idea if she has actually regressed the way people complain about. I kind of get why so many wish that the old Mei would come back, she was a lot more fiery and that made for a more spicy story. I'm not saying that having more fluff instead of angst is a bad idea... but, honestly, what I liked about the original citrus was its unique spice –it was both fun and at times pretty hot. The sequel is very toned-down compared to that. I don't think that Mei acts like a robot, but there really are way too few scenes with the two of them actually acting like a couple at all. However, I'm not sure if she was actually any less clueless in the original...? I distinctly remember that there was a chapter where she thought she had to follow a notebook down to the last detail to have a date......

The thing is, there are countless more (and probably better written) fluffy series. Citrus never had the most well-planned plot, so I'm not really expecting any exceptional writing here. But I do feel like (at least in the recent chapters) it has been stripped of what made it fun, while getting very little in return. If Saburouta wants to write fluff she needs to do a better job.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but right now I actually wish for more moments with the others, rather than the main couple...

last edited at Sep 20, 2021 12:52PM

(and just to clarify, I'm not saying "Mei is autistic" I'm saying "Mei can be read as autistic")

As I said, as a free human being you can headcanon anything you like, and you can dismiss or ignore the explanations for Mei’s character presented in the text itself to your heart’s content.

And drawing inferences from statements that actually appear in the text is an entirely different matter than explaining the foundation of Mei’s character by a “rape” that is imagined to have happened but never actually shown or even alluded to over 80-odd chapters of two different series.

EDIT: And your point is a valid one—“can be read as” and “canonically is” are two very different things.

Hypothetically, I wouldn’t put it entirely past Saburouta to retcon Mei as autistic or a rape victim (although both developments seem rather extreme for the overall tone of the series). But to do so would be yet another authorial asspull, like the sudden introduction of Shirapon, or the second arranged marriage, or the handwaving resolution to all the obstacles blocking a Mei/Yuzu romantic relationship—i.e., a sudden swerve diverging from the established facts of the story, although not definitively contradicting what we already know about the (highly intelligent but emotionally repressed neurotypical) character.

last edited at Sep 20, 2021 7:41AM

(and just to clarify, I'm not saying "Mei is autistic" I'm saying "Mei can be read as autistic")

As I said, as a free human being you can headcanon anything you like, and you can dismiss or ignore the explanations for Mei’s character presented in the text itself to your heart’s content.

Not once did I mention headcanons. In my opinion Mei can be read as autistic based on what happens in the story without that interpretation requiring one to ignore/dismiss anything. If you disagree please point out why, don't just dismiss other interpretations as headcanon

EDIT: And your point is a valid one—“can be read as” and “canonically is” are two very different things.

Personally I don't see a difference. Or to be more precise, I don't think that Mei has a canonical reading. As long as a story presents the possibility of multiple readings then either 1. all are equally canon or 2. there is no canon (both boil down to the same point although I prefer phrasing it like 2)

last edited at Sep 20, 2021 7:47AM

(and just to clarify, I'm not saying "Mei is autistic" I'm saying "Mei can be read as autistic")

As I said, as a free human being you can headcanon anything you like, and you can dismiss or ignore the explanations for Mei’s character presented in the text itself to your heart’s content.

Not once did I mention headcanons. In my opinion Mei can be read as autistic based on what happens in the story without that interpretation requiring one to ignore/dismiss anything. If you disagree please point out why, don't just dismiss other interpretations as headcanon

EDIT: And your point is a valid one—“can be read as” and “canonically is” are two very different things.

Personally I don't see a difference. Or to be more precise, I don't think that Mei has a canonical reading. As long as a story presents the possibility of multiple readings then either 1. all are equally canon or 2. there is no canon (both boil down to the same point although I prefer phrasing it like 2)

Mei’s personality has been explained canonically in the text, as I said—a rigid, repressive traditional upbringing and a traumatic abandonment by her father. You didn’t “mention” a headcanon, you enacted one.

Mei’s behavior might be “read as consistent” with any number of psychological or cognitive syndromes. The story has explicitly presented the “family upbringing” explanation for Mei’s behavior. Pending further actual evidence from the text, anything else is headcanon.

(and just to clarify, I'm not saying "Mei is autistic" I'm saying "Mei can be read as autistic")

As I said, as a free human being you can headcanon anything you like, and you can dismiss or ignore the explanations for Mei’s character presented in the text itself to your heart’s content.

Not once did I mention headcanons. In my opinion Mei can be read as autistic based on what happens in the story without that interpretation requiring one to ignore/dismiss anything. If you disagree please point out why, don't just dismiss other interpretations as headcanon

EDIT: And your point is a valid one—“can be read as” and “canonically is” are two very different things.

Personally I don't see a difference. Or to be more precise, I don't think that Mei has a canonical reading. As long as a story presents the possibility of multiple readings then either 1. all are equally canon or 2. there is no canon (both boil down to the same point although I prefer phrasing it like 2)

Mei’s personality has been explained canonically in the text, as I said—a rigid, repressive traditional upbringing and a traumatic abandonment by her father. You didn’t “mention” a headcanon, you enacted one.

Mei’s behavior might be “read as consistent” with any number of psychological or cognitive syndromes. The story has explicitly presented the “family upbringing” explanation for Mei’s behavior. Pending further actual evidence from the text, anything else is headcanon.

Once again, I don't see anything contradictory with "Mei is autistic" and "a rigid, repressive traditional upbringing and a traumatic abandonment by her father", in fact, I think it can work in the favour of the autistic reading. All the actual evidence for it is subtext that is up to interpretation, but that doesn't dismiss the quality of said argument. Nor does the existence of additional factors that lead to Mei acting the way she does

As I said, there is no "canon"

Once again, I don't see anything contradictory with "Mei is autistic" and "a rigid, repressive traditional upbringing and a traumatic abandonment by her father", in fact, I think it can work in the favour of the autistic reading. All the actual evidence for it is subtext that is up to interpretation, but that doesn't dismiss the quality of said argument. Nor does the existence of additional factors that lead to Mei acting the way she does

As I said, there is no "canon"

Here's where we disagree. A story establishes certain facts as true (Mei and Yuzu are stepsisters; they will get married, etc.). Until such time as a story literally changes our understanding of those facts, they are canonical.

The same is true, albeit perhaps arguably a bit more obliquely, of characterization. Certainly, as I said before, the story can subsequently supplement or transform explanations for a character's behavior or personality, but until it does, anything besides the text itself is rank speculation--Mei might be autistic, or a rape victim, or have suffered brain damage in a fall while staying at fiancé #2's house, or have undergone hypnosis to remove her previous lustful impulses, or be planning yet another arranged marriage to a man. But all of those possibilities amount to projection by readers and are beyond the text.

Here's where we disagree. A story establishes certain facts as true (Mei and Yuzu are stepsisters; they will get married, etc.). Until such time as a story literally changes our understanding of those facts, they are canonical.

The same is true, albeit perhaps arguably a bit more obliquely, of characterization. Certainly, as I said before, the story can subsequently supplement or transform explanations for a character's behavior or personality, but until it does, anything besides the text itself is rank speculation--Mei might be autistic, or a rape victim, or have suffered brain damage in a fall while staying at fiancé #2's house, or have undergone hypnosis to remove her previous lustful impulses, or be planning yet another arranged marriage to a man. But all of those possibilities amount to projection by readers and are beyond the text.

Okay, I actually agree with you here for the most part. I've been misunderstanding your points up to now.

When I say "there is no canon" what I mean is that readings that can be found within a text and are not contradictory to facts already established within the canon are themselves equal to canon

I believe that Mei can be read as autistic and that this reading doesn't contradict any facts already established within the canon. So, I see the reading of Mei as autistic equal to the reading of her as not autistic. And thus, neither position is canonical. Hence "there is no canon" (or the other way I phrased it "both are canon")

The only part where I seem to disagree is that I don't see these interpretations being "beyond the text" like you do. I see interpretations as a requirement to analysing a text hence why I think that, as long as your reading is based within the text, any given interpretation can be textual.

I think a lot of this just stems from Saburouta's weak characterization of Mei
I mean I like this kind of type of character that seems to act cold or inscrutable or remote at first
but like the hope is that you know they'll eventually thaw
and open up more and show some real affection (if they are alone)
Like, I want Mei to tell Yuzu that she loves her (I think she just did that once in the final chapter of Citrus Uno)
or be the one to sneak a kiss or I dunno pull a move like she did in chapter in chapter 13 of the og series (except this time be into it)
Also I want a damn chapter where we get to know what Mei is actually thinking for once!
Even if its only about Mei's thoughts on wanting to kill John Conner

last edited at Sep 20, 2021 9:00AM

For me at least, it's not about sex per se or Mei suddently becoming super expressive because she would be '' more fun'' that way. It's more about her not looking like she's in constant PAIN in 99% of the panels. Can't she be at least a little happy by now? It's all I ask.

For me at least, it's not about sex per se or Mei suddently becoming super expressive because she would be '' more fun'' that way. It's more about her not looking like she's in constant PAIN in 99% of the panels. Can't she be at least a little happy by now? It's all I ask.

Agreed. At least when Mei was (supposedly) keeping the secret of an inevitable arranged marriage her angst was explicable.

Then when Saburouta handwaves away everything standing in the way of a romance with Yuzu, Mei looks like she's been sentenced to life in a concentration camp.