^Well, I guess we've seen the same thing between girls here as well, but still, coming up with that reasoning in the case of this series requires one to completely disregard the dislike she's had for him ever since overhearing this.

"Het (normal) people are either evil or thoughtless"

"LGBT people are cool and understanding"

Hu hu.

Can I be thoughtlessly evil? I want that option

is the "hu hu" supposed to be laughing at how the stereotype was disproven in the manga?

I don't get why the author decided to make the crossdressers in this manga choose to cross-dress for external reasons(for the sake of their friends or family), but not for their own internal reasons (pleasure, personal aesthetics, etc...).

It just kind of rubs me the wrong way, as if the author was trying to imply that people don't crossdress for their own pleasure. Which is not true at all.

I don't get why the author decided to make the crossdressers in this manga choose to cross-dress for external reasons...

Because the sempai is supposed to mirror Hime in a way. She's doing it for her best friend, he's doing it for his sibling (who I assume is a trans boy), and the sempai might even enjoy doing it as well we don't know yet.

I don't get why the author decided to make the crossdressers in this manga choose to cross-dress for external reasons(for the sake of their friends or family), but not for their own internal reasons (pleasure, personal aesthetics, etc...).

It just kind of rubs me the wrong way, as if the author was trying to imply that people don't crossdress for their own pleasure. Which is not true at all.

Because they're authors and "Why did character x start doing y" is a question you'll rarely find answered "because they felt like it one day". Much of the time it transitions to doing it because they like it later, but almost never as the impetus because that's harder to write effectively.

ARE YOU A SPY

Common so many girls wear boys school dress in my school nobody cares.

Common so many girls wear boys school dress in my school nobody cares.

When I was in school we all wore JNCO pants while we marched to school, uphill in the snow both ways, and we liked it! shakes fist at all the kids on the lawn

I don't get why the author decided to make the crossdressers in this manga choose to cross-dress for external reasons(for the sake of their friends or family), but not for their own internal reasons (pleasure, personal aesthetics, etc...).

It just kind of rubs me the wrong way, as if the author was trying to imply that people don't crossdress for their own pleasure. Which is not true at all.

Perhaps it's just to show a variety of reasons? I think there's a variety of possible reasons for any cross-dresser to do so. I think it is mostly to set up the notion (for Akira to learn) that being called 'cute and pretty' is NOT the end goal for girls... perhaps 'a goal' but like Hiro says: it can be too much. "It won't necessarily make her happy" eh?

Didn't expect to see "Girl expresses outright disgust for a guy therefore she must be into him" in this community but I guess straight nonsense is literally inescapable.

But then she thinks about it and wonders if he might actually be sticking up for Akira, eh? Maybe he did... Probably not though, I think he's super-creepy too! But y'all never seen a tsundere spent weeks or months yelling, beating up and expressing hate towards her person of interest? It does happen... in manga at least.

I don't get why the author decided to make the crossdressers in this manga choose to cross-dress for external reasons(for the sake of their friends or family), but not for their own internal reasons (pleasure, personal aesthetics, etc...).

It just kind of rubs me the wrong way, as if the author was trying to imply that people don't crossdress for their own pleasure. Which is not true at all.

Perhaps it's just to show a variety of reasons? I think there's a variety of possible reasons for any cross-dresser to do so. I think it is mostly to set up the notion (for Akira to learn) that being called 'cute and pretty' is NOT the end goal for girls... perhaps 'a goal' but like Hiro says: it can be too much. "It won't necessarily make her happy" eh?

Didn't expect to see "Girl expresses outright disgust for a guy therefore she must be into him" in this community but I guess straight nonsense is literally inescapable.

But then she thinks about it and wonders if he might actually be sticking up for Akira, eh? Maybe he did... Probably not though, I think he's super-creepy too! But y'all never seen a tsundere spent weeks or months yelling, beating up and expressing hate towards her person of interest? It does happen... in manga at least.

I mean, the tsundere trope annoys the crap out of me for exactly that reason. It perpetuates the pretty shitty attitude that a woman's rejection is negotiable/insincere and you can just ignore their expressed wishes in favour of whatever you want.

I like crossdresser senpai, think he will be a good friend.

And I agree with @majere in the crappy senpai situation, he gives Hime the creeps, and is problaby not a tsundere case, I used to think a lot about the people that I disliked when I was a teenager (before I discovered that it was a complete waste of time) and I can assure you I was never found any of them attractive.

And I think cross-senpai sentence pretty much sums up the situation, she doesn't need to be happy when a creep calls her cute.

I'm confused as to why anyone would think Hime thought the senpai was anything but creepy when that was exactly what she said in her internal thoughts??

That aside though, I was kinda hoping Hime was non-binary since I related to her the most when she was wearing the boys uniform haha

Thanks to everyone who replied to my comment; they were insightful.

SPHR posted:
Because the sempai is supposed to mirror Hime in a way. She's doing it for her best friend, he's doing it for his sibling (who I assume is a trans boy), and the sempai might even enjoy doing it as well we don't know yet.

I guess I was being too harsh on the chapter. Your comment made me re-evaluate the chapter, and I agree.
For character development, it makes sense to also have a cross-dresser who cross-dresses for the same reason as Hime. I predict then that senpai will say something about his situation that will give Hime insight in how to handle her situation with Akira, just like how the blonde girl revealed her backstory to her, which caused her to dress as a girl.

GendoIkari posted:
Because they're authors and "Why did character x start doing y" is a question you'll rarely find answered "because they felt like it one day". Much of the time it transitions to doing it because they like it later, but almost never as the impetus because that's harder to write effectively.

I agree. I guess I over-reacted before, and the author was simply trying to explain character motivation and chose a more easy-to-explain and dramatic reason than an anti-climatic reason such as "they just felt like it" without trying to imply anything negative about cross-dressing. In fact, cross-dressing is portrayed as heroic, to protect loved ones.

5Cats posted:
Perhaps it's just to show a variety of reasons? I think there's a variety of possible reasons for any cross-dresser to do so. I think it is mostly to set up the notion (for Akira to learn) that being called 'cute and pretty' is NOT the end goal for girls... perhaps 'a goal' but like Hiro says: it can be too much. "It won't necessarily make her happy" eh?

If it was to show a variety of reasons, it would make more sense for Hamuro senpai's reason to cross-dress to be different than Hime's reason. Instead, they are in the same vein, to protect someone.
However, I like your point when you say that it is a set-up for the notion that 'pretty' is the not the end goal. It ties in perfectly with Akira's arc, who judges herself too harshly on her looks. Although Hime is the one who is being told this. I guess Hime is going to realize that Akira is insecure about her looks, and Hime is going to be the one who tells her to stop worrying about her appearance.

5Cats posted:
But then she thinks about it and wonders if he might actually be sticking up for Akira, eh? Maybe he did... Probably not though, I think he's super-creepy too! But y'all never seen a tsundere spent weeks or months yelling, beating up and expressing hate towards her person of interest? It does happen... in manga at least.

Ah, I still disagree with you about Hime secretly liking creepy senpai when her own thoughts scream out, "HE'S CREEPY." However, I'm glad that you recognize that he is super-creepy.
You know, maybe the author is setting up that moment where creepy senpai was being creepy, in addition to addressing Akira's insecurity about her own appearance, to also subvert the tsundere trope, to show that "No" means "No". I predict that Creepy Senpai will keep on pursuing Hime despite her outright rejections, to the point of Hime snapping and yelling at him that she's not interested. Then Akira will see all of this and realize that she wrongly judged Hime. Then she will be forced to stand-up for Hime and re-evaluate her thoughts about senpai, thus rekindling her relationship with Hime.

Yukiotakahasi :

[emptiness]

Either you're using invisible ink or that's the most laconic post ever, lol

"It takes a lot of time and money to live as a woman".

No, it doesn't. You can live as a woman without ever wearing a dress or makeup.

It takes time and money only if you want to conform to what other people think is a woman.

Anyway, we now have the poor pretty girl bullied in school because she's catching the attention of all the boyfriends of the other girls.

This manga is such a concentration of preaching.

last edited at Jun 25, 2019 12:54PM

Anyway, we now have the poor pretty girl bullied in school because she's catching the attention of all the boyfriends of the other girls.

This manga is such a concentration of preaching.

I'm hoping that's not where this is going because good lord is that trope played out. I do agree that this manga is super preachy which would be less annoying if what it was preaching wasn't either borderline incomprehensible or bullshit half the time.

"It takes a lot of time and money to live as a woman".

No, it doesn't. You can live as a woman without ever wearing a dress or makeup.

It takes time and money only if you want to conform to what other people think is a woman.

this

last edited at Jun 25, 2019 5:39PM

Anyway, we now have the poor pretty girl bullied in school because she's catching the attention of all the boyfriends of the other girls.

This manga is such a concentration of preaching.

Word. And here I had always thought it was Western media that couldn't tell a story without hammering a moral message... ugh...

I really hope this isn’t setting up for Akira being sent the message that she shouldn’t worry about her appearance. Telling that to a trans girl is, at best, incredibly unhelpful.

Yukiotakahasi :

[emptiness]

Either you're using invisible ink or that's the most laconic post ever, lol

It's a picture of a cow eating grass (of course) :-)

Ah, I still disagree with you about Hime secretly liking creepy senpai when her own thoughts scream out, "HE'S CREEPY." However, I'm glad that you recognize that he is super-creepy.

Oh for sure, he's got 99% creep probability! This will end in tears, almost for certain. Either he'll go for Hime (creep) break Akira's heart somehow (bad creep) or be the boy who loves Akira forever (that 1% is still open? Lolz) and thus break Hime's heart.

I really hope this isn’t setting up for Akira being sent the message that she shouldn’t worry about her appearance. Telling that to a trans girl is, at best, incredibly unhelpful.

Well, it might be helpful specifically for Akira. Who knows? Perhaps she'll become friends (somehow) with the little sister (pretty sure she's a girl, eh?) purely platonic of course.

Next chapter's forecast: gloomy with a high chance of angst. Mixed heartbreak with heavy tears by evening. Plot twists expected by morning.

"It takes a lot of time and money to live as a woman".

No, it doesn't. You can live as a woman without ever wearing a dress or makeup.

It takes time and money only if you want to conform to what other people think is a woman.

Anyway, we now have the poor pretty girl bullied in school because she's catching the attention of all the boyfriends of the other girls.

This manga is such a concentration of preaching.

Okay, to be honest, I’m really getting tired of this idea being bandied around so I’m confront it. I don't expect to receive a warm welcome.

Why do people wear makeup? You haven’t listed any alternatives. Not one variance in your answer. All you did was issue a single blanket statement. That people wear make-up only because they are conforming to what other people think is a woman.

Why do people wear makeup? For a variety of reasons. One woman does because they feel legitimate pressure or pseudo-pressure from varying elements of life. They believe they need to confirm to that idea of “woman”. Another woman because she was involved in a car-crash and now has quite the unpleasant scar. She doesn’t care about the looks people give her. It’s just the unpleasant memories of that experience. To cover it over eases her mind and heart. A third woman wears makeup and contacts because she enjoys the different look. The idea of heterochromia and almost Vulcan straight eyebrows has always appealed to her and now she can have that aesthetic everyday. These are my friends and family. These are their reasons.

Why do people wear makeup? For myself, it’s because it fills me with confidence. I don’t care about other people’s opinions. Much of the species could take a long walk off a short pier for all I care. I wear makeup for myself, for me and no-one else. When I put it on I feel confident in myself. I take pride in my appearance.

Why don’t I wear dresses? I don’t care much for skirts or dresses and jeans aren’t really my thing. My style is unusual. Trousers, dress shirts (I’ve never liked blouses either), waistcoats, pocket-watches and good dress shoes (they are a weakness of mine). As you can imagine this isn’t always cheap. I’m not wearing this to conform to other people's ideas. I’m wearing it because it fills me with confidence. I wear my make-up and my androgynous aesthetic because I revel in it. My make-up and my clothes do take time and money. I don’t regret a single cent of it. The sempai clearly doesn't regret it either. For them, living as the woman they want to be is expensive. And that is their choice. Living as that kind of woman.

How someone wants to live is entirely their own business. With as little time and money to spend on as they imagine. Or as much as they imagine. But throwing a blanket statement around, that is “It only takes time and money if you want to conform to what other people think is a woman,” that is the height of hubris. Don’t you dare tell me that I wear what I wear because I’m conforming. Don’t you dare tell me I spend the money and time I do because I’m conforming.

The only one preaching here is you.

I wrote "you can live as a woman without ever wearing a dress or makeup". Not "you should".

It's everybody's choice. I don't care about your reasons for wearing makeup or astro-pants, as long as you don't think that it makes you a woman.

It's the manga that made blanket statement. Like it was an evidence in itself that "It takes a lot of time and money to live as a woman" and that the sempai discovered it when they decided to cross-dress.

The corollary being that "living as a man" is simple and cheap. Which is just as false.

Why do people wear makeup? For myself, it’s because it fills me with confidence. I don’t care about other people’s opinions. Much of the species could take a long walk off a short pier for all I care. I wear makeup for myself, for me and no-one else. When I put it on I feel confident in myself. I take pride in my appearance.

Have you considered why that is because that feeling doesn't exist in a vacuum. Like perhaps the inescapable propaganda surrounding the makeup industry has affected your ability to feel confident with your bare face as is the case with many women. And even if that isn't the case just because you like this oppressive societal more that demands women invest inordinate amounts of time and money into this endeavour doesn't make it not an oppressive societal more that is ultimately harmful to women. Like for every woman who uses makeup as a means of self-expression there's a women who basically has an anxiety disorder concerning the idea of people perceiving her real face because it's been hammered into her since childhood that her real face is unacceptable. Let's not pretend the choice to wear makeup is one made without immense pressure pushing women in favour of it, the beauty industry is a billion dollar juggernaut bent on making every woman feel insecure and inadequate so they can sell them products that will fix the flaws they made up to sell them products to fix.

I dunno I feel like this is more affirming than preaching

This manga keeps asking me to empathize with people who treat other people like crap and that's just not something I'm gonna do. Also, this whole "befriending my sister as my cross-dressing alter-ego" scenario is way too absurd to be in a non-gag series that is allegedly trying to make a cogent point about gender issues.