Whoa! When did this comment section became a warzone worse than the one at Citrus???

I never understand when people complain about other people discussing manga in a manga discussion thread.

A lively disscussion is way more fun than a bland one, where all everybody does is talk about how cute the story is. Plus I find I get more from the story, because I get to see it from different perspecitives.

Word. Thought thrives on conflict, and the truth is born of argument (among friends).

I thought Midnighgunner was less complaining than just noting that this previously had not been a Dueling Lengthy Takes on the Characters thread (there’s been some but not—yet—much Citrus-level vituperation involved).

I think the reason is simple: this is the first arc where our two lovable dorks have come dangerously close to not being nice to each other; indeed, some have argued that the line has already been crossed.

Citrus was filled with not-OK behavior, ambiguous motivations, and unclear indications about future plot developments, so there was plenty to argue and speculate about. With this one previously the main question has been whether it was the most adorable thing in the world or the most adorable thing in the history of the universe. Answer: yes.

The guy above me is spot on. I wasn´t complaining, but making a remark. And just to get into the fray with my humble opinion, I´m loving Kase´s attitude here.

If I was a girl and a lesbian and someone with extremely poor social skils (Oh, wait. I am that) And my gorgeous athletic tomboy girlfriend show up to save me from that kind of situation in a fucking suit, I would´ve ask her to marry me pronto!

Also, how can someone mistake Kase for a guy even in a suit? I mean, breasts, man... breasts.

last edited at Feb 25, 2019 7:48PM

THIS ^ gives us all the information we need to know that Yamada knew EXACTLY what she was going to: A MIXER! She read the ad for it where it said it was: "A party for those looking for love" and looked dispirited and thought "A mixer,,,?"

So, yeah... Yamada knew she was going to an event for singles to hook up with other singles. So I really don't understand everyone who is saying that Yamada didn't do anything wrong.

Because, in real life, it'd be an unreasonable request. Yamada can hang out with her friends, including among guys that might hit on her, and including among people who are drinking. Especially if they say it's to form relationships with people who aren't their partner... which are healthy, and which partners should encourage.

In the context of the manga, Kase was right, because Yamada is eight years old and clearly can't take care of herself. But the squicky part is that she's written that way.

NTR exists in real life guys, don't forget it

Stop acting like their mistakes are equal.

There is a huge difference between Kase not updating Yamada on every thing she does in college when Yamada made it a point in high school to avoid over associating herself with Kase's club life and Yamada choosing to go to a mixer despite Kase being very up front about how that makes her feel.

Are we playing "I am the bigger victim, therefore you are at fault" game here? Did someone get killed when I wasn't looking? This is a communication issue, not a murder mystery where there's a clear cut Murderer and Victim. Neither anticipated what their partner was going to do. We are looking at a love story of 2 young, insecure individuals based in Japan, where effective and direct communication isn't very likely to take place.

Reader's shouldn't either seeing as how Yamada should have gotten over her jealousy crap when she finally learned to get over the Inoue-senpai misunderstanding.

Ah yes, let me just smack myself or will power out of this emotion. No. People can't just switch on/off their emotions like that. There are ways to manage your emotions, but it's something that takes time and a certain amount of emotional maturity to understand and be aware of. Neither is very experienced with any of this since this is still pretty new territory for them. If it's not obvious enough, Yamada is extremely insecure about her relationship with Kase. They don't and can't hang out as often as they did back in high school. And to Yamada it sounds like Kase is having fun with her roomie even though it's just usual roomie banter. Yamada was able to hash some stuff out with Mikawachi before, but this is now a luxury that she can't always afford. She hasn't told Hana about Kase either, so she's fairly isolated in her new environment and pretty lonely. Which leads to her doing stupid things. Does that mean we have to hate stupid people and ostracize them forever? If you actually answer yes to that you really need to reconsider a few things in life. (And I'm going to loop Let It Go in your general vicinity for several weeks) For one thing, nobody stays the same forever. People change, they become either better or worse. They may stagnate for a time, but they have to change. And we are just talking about cute girls in a yuri manga, not some grim dark Devilman thing with lots of issues to explore. Ease up on the hate wagon.

The situation shouldn't be viewed as "A did a bad, therefore A is a villain!!1111" The important thing should be "Did A learn from the mistake and improve." People flub, People have bad days. People make mistakes. SAINTS make mistakes. And Yamada or Kase isn't a saint. I never said Yamada was blameless in the whole fiasco, she handled it pretty poorly in fact and had to get bailed out by Kase. Kase also did push the wrong button which prompted Yamda to react so strongly against her wish. So both did something wrong and kind of started fighting. But did the two have a big pissy fight after they leave the bar? No. They talked it out and made up. I would understand if people get up in arms if the two started playing the finger pointing blame game and drag out the shit fling for several chapters, but this was wrapped within one chapter. Why are the readers even more worked up than they are when the conflict actually resolved in a very responsible, civil and adult-like manner???

"But she started-"
Don't make me enact Armomageddon again!

I'll admit, I wish Yamada would grow up a little. Her incompetence was cute when she was a wee lil' high schooler, but she's an adult now. She should be able to take care of herself without needing Kase to bail her out of any even slightly uncomfortable situation.

I'll admit, I wish Yamada would grow up a little. Her incompetence was cute when she was a wee lil' high schooler, but she's an adult now. She should be able to take care of herself without needing Kase to bail her out of any even slightly uncomfortable situation.

To be fair, YtKs literally starts off right where the first series ended, so it's a bit harsh to expect a massive leap in personal growth.

Even still, she needs to grow up. Even now, Kase is busting her out of situations she should be able to handle on her own. I know this is a cute, fluffy manga without serious drama, yadda yadda, but it's still a little irksome.

Maybe I'm just jealous I don't have a beautiful tomboy GF to bust me out of bad situations.

I think all the cool kidsmost of us can agree that as narrative devices/character traits go the "Yamada the Helpless Ingénue" one is rather starting to overstay both its utility and its welcome.

last edited at Feb 26, 2019 6:58AM

I think all the cool kidsmost of us can agree that as narrative devices/character traits go the "Yamada the Helpless Ingénue" one is rather starting to overstay both its utility and its welcome.

Yep, sometimes it's hard to remember that the very basis of the relationship between the two is that, while Yamada obviously found a lot to admire about Kase (her beauty, her coolness, her kindness), Kase actually learned a lot from Yamada's example of diligence as plant appointee and especially from her ability to take pride and pleasure in doing what she loved without being concerned about approval from others. In her idiosyncratic way, Yamada was very much her own person. (To be sure, Kase's thirst for Yamada's luscious little figure was an important element as well.)

That's why Yamada's failure to notably progress as a social person in Tokyo feels less like mere stasis and more like a regression. There are lots of ways this could change, even if only by showing her being skilled and competent at plant-wrangler school, for starters.

(And I thought I said this before, but maybe I lost the post: I for one would like to see Yamada anticipate an approaching kiss from Kase without her face looking like she's about to be hit by a truck.)

last edited at Feb 26, 2019 11:51AM

I just saw this on Wings Twitter feed, the next chapter will be released on the 28th of February, it's described, using google translate, as "Episode 9: Bouquet and Kase-san. How do you spend your first birthday of Kase after becoming a college student?
And here's the tweet: "https://twitter.com/Wings_Official/status/1100255228555710464

Because, in real life, it'd be an unreasonable request. Yamada can hang out with her friends, including among guys that might hit on her, and including among people who are drinking. Especially if they say it's to form relationships with people who aren't their partner... which are healthy, and which partners should encourage.

Uh, no, it is reasonable not to have your partner get drunk at a party meant to hook people up. Yamada can hang out with her friend, just like Kase encouraged. She shouldn't hang out with her friend at a party where the entire goal is to drink and hook up with strangers. That's fucking insane.

Are we playing "I am the bigger victim, therefore you are at fault" game here? Did someone get killed when I wasn't looking? This is a communication issue, not a murder mystery where there's a clear cut Murderer and Victim. Neither anticipated what their partner was going to do. We are looking at a love story of 2 young, insecure individuals based in Japan, where effective and direct communication isn't very likely to take place.

Yes. We are playing this game when there are people here claiming as if they are equal in fault. One, Yamada, is clearly the main cause of issues and people here don't want to accept it. Some are even straight up making lies to try to act like Kase had any fault in any of this. It was Yamada who wanted to go to the mixer, it was Yamada who disregarded Kase's feelings, and it was Yamada who hung up the phone. You can't sit here and claim that it's a communication issue between the two when it is Yamada who solely made the decision to end all communication.

Ah yes, let me just smack myself or will power out of this emotion. No. People can't just switch on/off their emotions like that. There are ways to manage your emotions, but it's something that takes time and a certain amount of emotional maturity to understand and be aware of. Neither is very experienced with any of this since this is still pretty new territory for them.

Did you miss out that the entirety of the first series has the presence of Yamada's jealousy over Kase's supposed ex-girlfriend. It all culminated to the school festival when she finally hashes it out with the senpai, and even happily accepted that Kase once dated someone so wonderful. Now she is getting pissed at the sound of another girl within 10 meters of Kase. That's a severe regression that completely voids all the growth Yamada was supposed to have made through high school.

I never said Yamada was blameless in the whole fiasco, she handled it pretty poorly in fact and had to get bailed out by Kase. Kase also did push the wrong button which prompted Yamda to react so strongly against her wish. So both did something wrong and kind of started fighting.

Kase didn't push a damn thing, Yamada's biggest Trigger was Kase's gall to have roommate and that's just fucking ridiculous. Kase did nothing wrong at all.

But did the two have a big pissy fight after they leave the bar? No. They talked it out and made up. I would understand if people get up in arms if the two started playing the finger pointing blame game and drag out the shit fling for several chapters, but this was wrapped within one chapter. Why are the readers even more worked up than they are when the conflict actually resolved in a very responsible, civil and adult-like manner???

Because it's bad writing. Nothing is resolved no matter how the characters act. Nothing was wrapped up. The problems continue and seeing as how they didn't learn a damn thing from high school they won't learn anything here. Judging by how Yamada emotionally regressed severely since high school she is bound to regress even further. Hell, Kase has to beg Yamada to use her first name and right after they were suppose to make some progress Yamada switches back to her last name. Yamada is still the dead fish of the relationship, after all this time it is still Kase who is the only one initiating every intimate thing in their relationship. The ending of this chapter just reset them to exactly how they were before the phone call.

last edited at Feb 26, 2019 12:36PM

in a fucking suit

...I am not ashamed to admit, that I emphazised the last to words wrong in my head at first glance.

Did anyone else furiously tap the screen repeatedly at the end of the most recent chapter?

Uh, no, it is reasonable not to have your partner get drunk at a party meant to hook people up. Yamada can hang out with her friend, just like Kase encouraged. She shouldn't hang out with her friend at a party where the entire goal is to drink and hook up with strangers. That's fucking insane.

The reasonable thing would be to trust your partner won't cheat on you, like a grown-up. "There are boys" and "there is alcohol" does not mean sex with boys naturally happens.

Again, I'm talking 'real life.' IN THE MANGA, again, Yamada is psychologically eleven years old and probably would get cornered and assaulted if there's a bottle of beer in the same room as her. In the context of the story, Kase was totally right.

My point is: It is creepy as all hell that the author wrote it this way. Yamada's innocence and weirdness about both sex and gayness are played up way past the point it's believable or interesting. She is completely, utterly unable to take care of herself. This justifies Kase's actions! It doesn't keep from making the whole thing creepy.

The author's main problem here, I think, is that they want to tackle some degree of psychological depth, but at the same time, they want to have their adorable, frivolous Kase-san story... and it doesn't work. The balance is way off. It's always gonna lead to jarring happy endings that don't make much sense.

And I still feel like the author has some really weird attitudes getting smuggled in. Like, all the adult aspects of the relationship (like drinking with friends) or sex or telling people you have a girlfriend... they're somehow bad and... ruin Yamada's pure innocence or something, I dunno, it's weird.

The reasonable thing would be to trust your partner won't cheat on you, like a grown-up. "There are boys" and "there is alcohol" does not mean sex with boys naturally happens.

"Grown-ups" cheat all the time. If you can't trust your partner not to go to drinking parties meant to hook people up then why do they deserve your trust not to cheat on you?

Again, I'm talking 'real life.' IN THE MANGA, again, Yamada is psychologically eleven years old and probably would get cornered and assaulted if there's a bottle of beer in the same room as her. In the context of the story, Kase was totally right.

No, you are not talking about real life. In real life it would be unreasonable to think that it's perfectly fine for your SO to go on blind dates or dating parties and think they have no plans to cheat on you. In real life, and if Yamada wasn't as dumb as a door knob, she would have realized how insane it would be for a Japanese lesbian to allow her in the closet girlfriend to go to a mixer meant to get her a boyfriend. In context with real life Kase was totally right.

The reasonable thing would be to trust your partner won't cheat on you

...but, it's not so much Yamada's fidelity Kase's been worried about. She didn't trust the boys / guys at uni mixers in general.
Kase only got worried over their relationship status - and verbalized that - when Yamada didn't see the problem / threat there (and eventually hung up on her).

Edit: actually, let me rephrase that.... Kase doesn't trust boys. Period.
Because they are creeps looking at Yamada with pervy eyes-- which Kase totally wouldn't do herself! :P

last edited at Mar 6, 2019 1:51PM

Edit: actually, let me rephrase that.... Kase doesn't trust boys. Period.
Because they are creeps looking at Yamada with pervy eyes-- which Kase totally wouldn't do herself! :P

And those noses! Pervert noses for sure.

Big block of Girdman post redacted because I ended up writing too much about other things

There are a TON of hangups on who is the bigger villain and therefore detailed write up. I doubt I can change your perceptions at all on this so it is what it is. I probably even misunderstand your point. I apologize if I misunderstand, but I just can't grasp the entirety due to a combination of personal experience and a touch of wishful expectations on the series progression. Just consider me too dumb to understand.

This is how I see the 2's situation:
Personal view: People and all their people-related issues are rarely if ever completely black and white.

Personal view: People act irrationally when they are angry. Both parties were mad and both made mistakes. Both were in the right for something, and both were also in the wrong for something.

Observation: This is where the divide line among posters happen.
Fact: Yamada did have a major brain fart when she chose to handle the phone call and the situation that way.
Reader's interpretations: This was bad writing. Yamada is far too immature despite her progress previously. Kase is too good for Yamada. Yamada is worse than Hitler. Etc.
Comment: Please please do not dwell on this bit. I am paraphrasing a lot and I don't want to read pages of posts just for this section.

Wishful thinking for Kase and Yamada's progress: As personal experience comes into play for this, if you start counting every wrong and sin someone ever done against you, it's very emotionally draining and tiresome. Taking into effect that the two are still young and dealing with usual relationship hiccups. Stuff like this would happen. So I'm not too bothered by who broke the bigger taboo, as no one is dead or emotionally injured for this to really matter to me. Therefore a scenario where the two have effective communication about what's really bothering them should happen.

For me, this is a very touchy and personal subject. Poor communication on top of people who constantly talk over me because older or other reasons. Because having a large fight and not interacting with each other for indefinite periods of time never addressed the what and why the fight happen. I've had far too many family fights like this in the past and NOTHING ever gets fixed this way. Everyone kept insisting that they were right and the other was wrong. It just dragged on endlessly and bystanders like me absorb the brunt of things and sometimes even get blamed for things beyond my control. The problem is still sitting there, and people never knew what or why they were actually fighting about. What a colossal waste of time, energy, and emotional health! Yet most people I know chose this route because it's the only way they know rather than trying to be honest about their deeper insecurities and opening up. I can't even begin to describe the emotional bagge, pain, and insecurities I've had to dealt with this way. When I read the end of this chapter, it was immensely refreshing/liberating/uplifting to see them opening up like that what was exactly eating them. But I understand that not everyone will read this chapter the same way I did. That's perfectly alright. Because their life experience will let them see this differently. This was just my interpretation, which is wrong for others. For me, I want to see 2 fictional characters understand each other's worries and move forward rather than dwell on the past mistakes.

Therefore the chapter ending with the two talking things out feels like a step forward for me personally despite how some may feel Yamada is regressing.

Side note. I have a very timid friend. So I definitely understand parts of how Yamda may function. I myself am also socially awkward, so also able to feel why Yamda may act the way she is. Sometimes you take a step forward and then you take a step backward because weather, shitty day, random asshole, stepped on dog poo.

"But IRL timid people don't-"
Please don't assume what I do and don't

My main takeaway from a careful re-read of the “Mixer From Hell” arc is that in Hana-chan we find a specimen who is even more clueless than Yamada.

Our little lesbian vegetable at least was aware that a mixer was an “adult” thing that would involve behaviors that would make her uncomfortable (she planned to “stay for an hour and then leave”). But Hana was shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that there was the possibility of underage drinking going on.

So the Yamada who is excited at the possibility of going to a convenience store whenever she wants is, compared to the person for whom a convenience store was a 40 minute bus ride away, the more cosmopolitan of the two.

And in regard to mixers, I think everyone involved has learned an important lesson from all this. What that lesson is remains to be seen.

Our little lesbian vegetable at least was aware that a mixer was an “adult” thing that would involve behaviors that would make her uncomfortable (she planned to “stay for an hour and then leave”). But Hana was shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that there was the possibility of underage drinking going on.

So the Yamada who is excited at the possibility of going to a convenience store whenever she wants is, compared to the person for whom a convenience store was a 40 minute bus ride away, the more cosmopolitan of the two.

Maybe Hana is fine with casual sex with strangers, but draws the line at underage drinking.

Our little lesbian vegetable at least was aware that a mixer was an “adult” thing that would involve behaviors that would make her uncomfortable (she planned to “stay for an hour and then leave”). But Hana was shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that there was the possibility of underage drinking going on.

So the Yamada who is excited at the possibility of going to a convenience store whenever she wants is, compared to the person for whom a convenience store was a 40 minute bus ride away, the more cosmopolitan of the two.

Maybe Hana is fine with casual sex with strangers, but draws the line at underage drinking.

The former is considerably easier to obtain when combined with the latter.

Or so I am told.

I feel like Yamada didn't realise the intent of the "City Party". Nor Hana, for that matter.

An old enemy-turned-friend re-appears, one long-rumored opponent is finally sighted, and a new opponent of a microbial nature threatens catastrophe!

All in “Bouquet & Kase-san,” coming soon, probably.

The new chapter is on Mangadex. Really for some micro insecurity and angst

Also awaiting unnecessary angst and insecurity now. And also hoping for some cute "nursemaid" fluff from both of those dorks.