Forum › Their Story discussion
.jpg?1513892196)
I'm constantly reminded that Sun Jing is actually a giantess.
She's much taller than the teacher.
She's 5'9. It was stated in the manga. It's just chinese women are way too short xD
Damn that line from Sun Jing hits hard. That sort of mindset is actually prevalence in Asian countries.
I mean I'm against wearing provocative clothing like almost nude sorta stuff in public because it causes unwanted attention and most guys are gonna be instinctively turned on. So it's on you to take leering if you are gonna go full out with it, but you shouldn't be physically harrassed or rape over it.
"Instinctively" is doing a lot of work here--bullshit work.
I really like this last batch - and what Sun Jing said about don't blame her for her skirt, blame the pervert.
I've heard taking upskirt photos is a big problem in South Korea atm? Even bigger than it was in Japan back in the bad old days. Maybe they should pass some new stricter laws about it?
last edited at Dec 14, 2018 8:45AM
It's such a weird thing, frankly. I mean, alright, people are shitbags and it's pointless to understand them, but what's the appeal that beats doing this over, I don't know, Internet porn? Is it a power thing? That it's forbidden? That it involves a "real" person?
^I agree, I don't get it at all - putting aside how scummy it is, how is such a shitty photo even erotic compared to the many alternatives? He got what he deserved. Is it a big problem in China like it is in Korea I wonder?
It's such a weird thing, frankly. I mean, alright, people are shitbags and it's pointless to understand them, but what's the appeal that beats doing this over, I don't know, Internet porn? Is it a power thing? That it's forbidden? That it involves a "real" person?
All of the above, I think--it's symbolic rape. Less risky than fondling, I'd guess, and easier to self-rationalize as a "joke," maybe. It's certainly not about sexual desire or "eroticism" in any normal sense.
I think your "people are shitbags" probably covers it as well as anything.
last edited at Dec 14, 2018 9:27AM
Damn that line from Sun Jing hits hard. That sort of mindset is actually prevalence in Asian countries.
It hurts but this how most of the Asian countries are,
Forget short skirts, even long skirts (or western clothing in general) are seen as 'inviting' clothing
last edited at Dec 14, 2018 9:53AM
Ohh yiis! You go girl! Protect your lady~
Damn that line from Sun Jing hits hard. That sort of mindset is actually prevalence in just about every countries.
FTFY
I mean I'm against wearing provocative clothing like almost nude sorta stuff in public because it causes unwanted attention and most guys are gonna be instinctively turned on. So it's on you to take leering if you are gonna go full out with it, but you shouldn't be physically harrassed or rape over it.
Meh. "Provocative" is so subjective. Showing ankles, until recently, was considered indecent. Women in Africa and elsewhere go topless and people there don't care a whit.
It's all in the mind. And in the education.
In an ideal world, everyone should be allowed to wear anything they like, or nothing, as long as it's not physically harmful to them or others.
"Sun Jing's response to the Park Employee was out of line in the way she presented herself. She used physical intimidation, made actual physical contact, and verbally accosted the employee. "I hate people like you the most!" Really? The guy that just assaulted your girlfriend is on higher ground than a slightly misguided person with good intentions? The park employee never said anything about rapists nor did she say QT couldn't dress in a skirt, only to be more mindful in crowded places. The suggestion to wear pants took things a little further than necessary but SJ in response was just being nasty. Perpetuate the cycle of wrongful behavior or give sound information. I'm not saying SJ can't be mad or be emotional, but you rarely get anywhere with people using forceful means. The employee likely just walked away thinking SJ was a "bitch" and learned nothing. "
Context. SJ is angry, so psychological attack on QT after she's been already attacked is going to get a nasty reaction out of her.
If you let people act in a bad way with good intentions (in their mind), they won't learn. There is a little bonus chapter 181.2 where SJ goes more into detail. She didn't just lash out, she explains what she meant to that person.
last edited at Dec 14, 2018 7:29PM
I believe that to treat a problem it is very important to understand holistically why the problem occurs. We can't answer
(1+1) without understanding what (1) is and the function of (+) and (=).
I agree, although your shorthand of comparing this to mathematics is troubling.
There is also how we want society to be and of how society is. Fact remains that (...)
And by using "dont dress up so provocatively" you are just furthering the status quo. Remember: You can't change the system without BEING the change in the system. Yes, these things will happen - but they are not justified, and they wont change if people themselves don't change.
What cultural and or biological influences allow or teach for the poor treatment of women and for behaviors such as sexual voyeurism, harassment, and rape?
The line between cultural and biological is almost non-existant. And all of those things are highly complex interactions between biology, culture and society.
Why did the guy feel that it was okay for him to take advantage of QT? It appeared less about him being interested in what she was wearing and more that a skirt opened the opportunity for the guy to take advantage. That's not saying QT wanted it since she wore a skirt, that's not shaming her, that's just acknowledging what happened and of how it was able to happen.
"that a skiet opened the opportunity for the guy to take advantage"
You are not addressing your own g'damned question. That is not "why he felt it was okay". If a person comes at you with a sign that says "shoot me" and you could do it without legal repercutions, will you feel it's okay to shoot him? Of course not, because you dont feel it's okay to violate a person's physical integrity "just because the opportunity came up".
Despite trying to appear all rational and skeptic, you really did the least effort you could there in trying to understand his motives or his morality.
Men are not these helpless, immoral creatures who see ass and feel the need to film it without someone's consent. I'll never accept this about my male friends, coworkers, my brother or any other guy I know, because it'd be disrespecting them as people.
The Park Employee wasn't trying to shame QT or claim that it was her fault. (...)
But, see, that's what she did. I'm sure she was trying to help, but QT didn't do anything stupid or out of line.
people will target you for how you are dressed. It sucks, it shouldn't be that way but it is. And in the meantime while society changes (...)
How do you not realize you are upholding the status quo with this mentality? That "thought structure" you did there - that's just you saying "Society is changing, but while it's changing, you should stop doing the thing that is making it change in the first place". It's an oxymoron, it's idiotic, it's illogical. If more people don't dress like QT, this WILL keep happening, because, just like you imply in your text post, "it is to be expected" - and people WILL justify it. You end up in a vicious cycle where you can't wear what you want without being abused, and people expect you to not wear what you want because you'll get abused.
The rest of your post just repeats that same thought structure over and over again. "it's sucks, but that's life LOL conformism, amirite guys?".
But you know, little is said when SJ sexually harasses a girl by grabbing the girl's buttocks only to blame Mophead as part of a "harassment is funny' joke and double standards. The "it's okay if it's two girls" argument is horrid.
C'*mon*, they're still kids, and they know each other, it's way less creepy. You even see her talking with mophead all shyly later. And SJ was still coming out, she was probably a bit repressed, but even if that wasn't so - at least a woman can go 1-on-1 with another woman. Not so much with men. You feel frustrated af when you can't do shit about harassment because you know you'll get the crap beaten out of you.
Damn Sun Jing looking badass AF, I love her character more and more with every chapter.
What I say is that while people go out and wear what they wish they should be aware that people may take advantage of them for what they're wearing.
And if in this case QT had been "aware" (granting for the sake of argument the entirely unjustified assumption that she was not) that perverts do exist who potentially might attempt to (avoiding the weak euphemism "take advantage of") criminally molest or sexually assault her, what would be the implications or consequences of that "awareness"?
Sun Jing was already president of lesbians, but now I want her to be president of the world, too.
aww heeeel yeeah -3-
last edited at Dec 14, 2018 10:44PM
Sun Jing was already president of lesbians, but now I want her to be president of the world, too.
Damn I would vote for her
First I want to apologize because my presentation did create a number if implications that I did not mean and some implications were twisted out of what I said. I also admit to mixing points together that likely lead to unnecessary confusion. I also decided to restart here because I felt I was being stereotyped at some fault of my own.
I agree, although your shorthand of comparing this to mathematics is troubling.
Um, yeah. That wasn't comparing sexual assault to a math problem. It was just show a fundamental truth that knowing the parts of something, the reasons why, helps greatly to find solutions. As with many other things you wrongfully implied of me and inaccurately quoted me as saying I ask that you no longer reply to me.
(avoiding the weak euphemism "take advantage of")
By using the phrase "take advantage of" I did not mean that to lessen the behaviors while I did mean in it every negative away and level of negativity. I wish you wouldn't imply that of me. And I wasn't implying that QT wasn't aware of people that would act to harm her nor that being aware would have prevented the criminal from sexually assaulting QT by taking an up-skirt video without her knowledge nor consent.
I believe that to solve a problem it is important to understand why people act out criminally be the reasons biological, sociological, and or both or other influences. This was in response to comments stating there was no reason to understand why someone would attack, assault, harass, or commit any harmful act against another person.
When we dress we do so for different reasons. Mostly we choose what to wear for ourselves because we feel good in those clothes. We'll often dress for others to be the best dressed, express our styles and thoughts, how we feel about ourselves and so on. We'll dress accordingly for a date versus a business meeting. Sometimes we'll dress to attract a certain kind of attention or behavior towards us and so on. And people will and do, society as a whole, respond to and treat us accordingly.
What is wrong however is for one to use those reasons of dress to assault someone in any degree. The recent court case in Ireland where a man was acquitted of raping a teen girl because of the style of panties she wore was appalling. The argument used was that because of the panties she wore meant that she wanted sex which is a very wrongful and harmful claim. There are many reasons and issues that have lead to a society where people believe, no matter how wrong it actually is, that such assumptions are okay and that people do treat others in such a way. And do so on in a systematic way.
To describe someone's dress as "provocative" implies an assumption that they have dressed that way to provoke someone to act against them or elicit arousal.
How someone dresses is no excuse nor justification of any kind for assault. And victims should never be shamed into believing it as their fault. People can and have been assaulted not matter what they wear. A rapist doesn't care whether someone is wearing a joggers or nothing at all. A voyeur will use any advantage they can get to take unwanted images of someone.
And if in this case QT had been "aware"
Being aware of this isn't an immediate defense, awareness alone will not prevent people from being assaulted and no one should have to keep checking themselves during every day activities to be sure no one can assault them. Being aware however can and does help in how we respond to assault, how we learn and implement the necessary social steps that can be taken to reduce the assaults and harassment, and in how we respond to those assaulted. It wasn't my intention in the last comment to imply that had QT been aware, not assuming she wasn't, that nothing would have happened to her.
My point about men making up the overwhelming number of sexual assault criminals wasn't an accusation that all men are sexual assailants nor that all men are predisposed to committing sexual crimes. However I do think it is incredibly important when addressing sexual assault to determine why that is. There are a lot of men that haven't and wouldn't commit sex crimes so I'm certainly not implying in any capacity that all men are. Another twisting of my words to imply otherwise.
I admit freely without excuse nor reason that my prior post went well outside the event in the story so this is how I view the scene on its own.
QT did nothing wrong. Her choice of dress was not at fault. She was harassed, assaulted, taken advantage of (meaning in this context to exploit someone and harm them) and it was good that SJ stood up to the perpetrator. Why the perpetrator acted as he did? There are many reasons and influences that do not never justify (validate something as having no fault or blame but do explain why people behave as they do. In regard to the perpetrator himself he went out to capture voyeur shots or did so in the moment seeing an opportunity do to so. Again, not QT's fault.
When approached by the Park Employee QT was advised not to wear a skirt in crowded places because this may, and was had, lead to the assault. This was wrong and implies that it was QT's fault. Implying that it is the victim's fault it horrid and there is no "but" or "however" here. Anything that implies the victim was at fault is horrid. My only curiosity is how did QT herself feel about the incident and the statement from the Park Employee because how the victim feels is also very important to how a response is to be had.
To make note. I did not know the content of nor even the existence of a further explanation from the writer. Likely it was in another language. If someone wishes to provide that explanation for further knowledge I welcome it but I can not be held accountable for not knowing.
Sometime's, not matter how right a response may be, if the response is violent this can add to the trauma. Sun Jing was right to be angered, she was right to remove the Park Employee's hand from QT's shoulder as there was no reason to touch her to begin with, but I take exception to her using physical intimidating, making contact with the Park Employee when pointing at her, and the rapist example because it was an exaggeration of the Park Employee. And one of the main reasons I take exception is because it leaves me wondering if SJ got her point across?
The comment I made of "misguided yet well meaning" in regard to the Park Employee's motivations was in response to SJ saying she hated people like the Park Employee even more than those that do the actual assault. True enough that some assailants may and do act on lessons they are taught by individuals and society. People like the Park Employee knowingly or unknowingly (as I believe in this case) do perpetuate these harmful teachings and that is not right no matter of intention. But to argue the Park Employee as worse unwittingly justifies the assailants actions as somehow better.
And in the end what about the most important person in the middle of all this? QT, the one assaulted. Did someone's anger overshadow the initial event and of how QT felt? We see nothing from her until she's crying at the end and SJ makes some quip that QT is a wimp for crying. Because assault victims being "wimpy puppies" is funny somehow. We see SJ get mad, we see her act, we see her respond to everything, we see her play down QT's reaction at the end when we finally do get a glimpse into how QT felt.
My final curiosity comes from what the Park Employee said and continues outside the context of the scene. Sticking to QT's example alone had she worn pants then the video could not have been taken. That's not blaming QT nor shaming her, that's pointing out a simple fact. However, telling someone to cover up to avoid sexual exploitation isn't a viable answer because this ignores that such advice doesn't stop assault. The Voyeur would simply move on to someone else or had he been a rapist then whatever QT wore wouldn't stop him. The actual actions are independent of what someone is wearing and even if true in one instance what the Park Employee says has no positive impact on sexual assault. And to the extent such a comment does more harm than good for many reasons including the act of covering up implies there was something wrong in the first place with how a woman dressed.
So while society progresses and that progression is not a linear path, is there anything else that can be done in the meantime while lessons change, cultures changes, and people become more understanding, to better protect people and for people to be aware of potentially more ways to protect themselves without unfairly having to change how they go about things? And I'll end here. I don't want myself to be further misunderstood nor me mentality wrongfully assumed any further. But I will say that none of my thoughts included women, myself for that matter, and no one else to do start covering up because sexual criminals and potential sexual criminals exist.
C'*mon*, they're still kids, and they know each other, it's way less creepy. You even see her talking with mophead all shyly later. And SJ was still coming out, she was probably a bit repressed, but even if that wasn't so - at least a woman can go 1-on-1 with another woman. Not so much with men. You feel frustrated af when you can't do shit about harassment because you know you'll get the crap beaten out of you.
Being a teenager, relation to someone, repressed or emerging sexuality, nor attempts at humor are justifications for harassment which itself isn't justifiable. Sun Jing is quite athletic and strong, she's able to hold her own against males in sports and fights, so I kind of doubt the other girl at half the size of SJ could go "1-on-1" with her regardless of both being women. Not all women are inherently weaker than all males. And harassment from a woman is no less than harassment from a man.
The girl's shy behavior around Mophead afterwards was likely because she understandably became angry at the wrong person. Absolutely not because she was "okay" with Sun Jing grabbing her buttocks. At that she was at the very least angry.
last edited at Dec 17, 2018 4:05PM
I'm with the teacher. I used to think Sun Jing was just an idiot (in love), but she has gotten my respect after not just kicking that asshole's ass, but also giving that woman a lesson on how not to put the blame on the victim. Respect!
And poor Qiu Tong... the feeling you have when something like this happens is the worst. (｡•́︿•̀｡)
hey... things are what they are!
The guy with the phone camera its a pervert and was harrasing the girl.... thats invasion of privacy, then he is breaking a human right!
Sun Jing did right, she stop the guy, its a good reaction, and she stood for what she thinks its right... If we as humans, dont care about others, doesnt matter if its a gay couple, or just friends... or a stranger on the street. We are also part of the wrongdoing. A withness if dont look for authorities, or at least do something to help the victim, its also a partner in crime!!!
we dont only have rights but responsability!
Sorry my bad grammar but English its not my mother tongue.....
women need to carry guns/knives more often
women need to carry guns/knives more often
What we need is a world where no guns or knives are needed... Where fear is not the ruler of our decisions
women need to carry guns/knives more often
Everyone carried knives back in the Middle Ages. Just sayin'.
have the started dating yet? I keep coming back at random chapters and can't figure it out
.jpg?1578101983)
Adorable