Serenata posted:

You don't even know the mangaka true intentions

Neither does previous person making claims it was in line with other Morinaga works.

you're just assuming stuff about the "glorious" Japanese language, maybe they didn't use the direct translation of fuck (perhaps they said KUSO which means SHIT)over there but if we change stuff based on "maybe" or "might" then any translation is fine, and girlfriend is a fine example because you're talking about what Morinaga was going for, so why not use another of her works as example? Jesus Christ +_+

You missed my point entirely. I wasn't saying you can't compare it to other Morinaga works. What I said you can't compare it to how it was translated because either fan or official, it will always have some liberties taken with it and you can't judge accurately how much of it was the exact wording Morinaga used. Which xphrnzrjh was claiming.

Also while I indeed was speculating about word usage, it would be different thing if she just used a word fuck, shit etc. but from comment it was clear it was part of expression "what the fuck/hell" which would definitely use different wording than english one, so it was a pretty safe guess. Also I no longer need to go and check manga myself to prove my point thanks to azoisk

azoisk posted:

何言ってんだ----?!
What are you saying?!
(What the fuck didja say, you eejit?!) [Superb translation, dickwad.]

"Nani itte n da----?!" is in no way a curse word. It doesn't even have word "stupid" in it, which while fine, is not what character said, so arguing word "stupid" is used commonly in all mangas is irrelevant in this case. It is taking liberties with source material and adding more flower to the character speech? Yes. Does it do justice in portraying character and conveying their intentions accurately? No. I'm not going to go out of my way to say that MrCattt is retard or stupid or w/e for doing it. I'm not even going to assume they were "screwing around" just for the lolz. I truly believe they most likely wanted translated it and did their best. What I'm going to say though, that is not a good translation. And while sure, we will never know Morinaga's exact intentions, that is the job of translator in the first place. To figure out the best they can what author wanted to express and express it the best to their ability in other language, so people reading it will get the same, or at least as close as possible, experience to reading original.

Anyway, I hope this continues being translated because I love Morinaga's work, and if people want perfect neutral translations, better buy it licensed? Because I understand criticism about typos but criticism about interpretations are just attacks.

Implying licensed works don't take liberties with source material. And it not being sterile was not even the point. As was pointed out already, the issue is not with that liberties were taken. It was with what kind and how much was changed compare to original and how really necessary it was. And honestly commenting on poor translation is not a attack in any way (unless someone do it in a rude way), but if it was just poor translation, it would be 1 thing, but they pretty much rewrite and make up what is actually said.

I understand wanting to read something and not being able to, so you have to rely on other people translating. The question is do you rather read something that kinda resembles original or you actually want to know what was really said? For how much people love to complain when something is translated wrong or analyze exact wording of a character, it really baffles me some people would be ok with reading stuff that is just made up by translator.

And it isn't like I don't understand the fun off adding stuff up. I read online Tomodachi no Hanashi and really enjoyed it. Then we got a published version here, and I was surprised to learn just how much stuff was added by fan scanlators. The thing was, while "official" translation was indeed a little more bland in some places, the fan translation at least kept mood and personality of characters. I totally could believe they would actually said those things. Here, not so much.

Aaaand, I made next wall of text. FML

Btw, I'm not sure how the site works - if i correct all the things and suggest it again, will they update it?

That's basically how it works.

last edited at Mar 29, 2018 2:33PM

What the hell just happened in this comment section?

Mugre gente malagradecida, todavía que este wey viene y nos hace el favor de retomar este manga vienen y se quejan alv, si tanto les molesta en vez de ponerse a criticar mejor ayudenle con la traducción o a hacer un QC , ches limosneros y con garrote, por eso los traductores abandonan series por gente como ustedes.

Well, MrCatt made clear that they like how they translated it and found it more fun. You have every right to criticize it, but until you come up with your own translation, you'll have to do with this one.

Personally, I found it a bit funny.

Why so serious? It's free and it's not like you don't understand what's going on. So... *shrug*

Use capture2text for that, it's really handy.

Ooh, that's gonna save quite a lot of time. Thanks for the tip.

I'll go over this chapter and post an imgur album later about how I think it should've been translated/edited. Since I only have paint.net and no special comic book fonts downloaded, it's going to look like ass (big white boxes everywhere and a terrible font).
Maybe later tonight or tomorrow or never.
Probably.

I'm really sorry for hurting your eyes with all these typos, guys. I checked it many times, so i thought there wouldn't be any of them (or at least just a couple, not the thousand)(and I bet my overconfidence will kill me).

Automatic spell-check exists.

7: "but why then she said she doesn't want to live with me" should probably say "but then why did she say she doesn't want to live with me"

Mmm, idk, do you all guys find all the sentences awkward? To me they sounds perfectly fine.

The first sentence is not at all correct English.

Also just wondering if you don't mind, are you Scottish? Only if you don't mind answering

Well... i'm actually Russian

In general, translating into a language other than your native one is a very bad idea.

Some people like joke-y translations, I guess?
Hrm. The translation was amusing I suppose, but done to one of my favourite mangaka the disrespect kind of pisses me off.
If you want to screw around, do it as a secondary version.

I don't have any problems with people criticizing me and being rude, but I just want to clarify
that there's some misunderstanding.

I wasn't planning to do a "joke-y" translation and i didn't want to "screw around". Like, i don't find typos funny or anything, i just screwed it up couse ama bampot. And i was completely serious doing all the stuff, and I don't really understand what you're annoyed about, (except the typos and some odd grammar from time to time, ovcorz.)

This is a problem, because the language used sounds like a joke. If you can't see why then you don't have a good enough grasp on English.

In any case, you should definitely have people (preferably many native English speakers) look at your translation before publishing them.

An editor and a quality controller or two would help.

Dynasty's Discord server has a section for scanlators to help each other out. I recommend sharing your works in progress there and getting feedback before publishing them fully.

last edited at Mar 29, 2018 4:51PM

You missed my point entirely.

Maybe because I didn't quote you directly? And looks like with all this criticism maybe someone will actually lend a hand for proofreading and that's what MrCatt was looking form A5PECT also gives a good option, if there's a v2 of the second chapter that's cool but if not, at least the next chapters will be better so all's good right? I don't want him to be discouraged to keep going so I'm upset with all (too much in fact) the fuss.

Serenata posted:

Maybe because I didn't quote you directly?

Facepalm Lol I didn't notice you didn't quote me. I was sure the last part was mine, but didn't notice it was Kaori's. What a fail x3 I still stand by what I said though.

And looks like with all this criticism maybe someone will actually lend a hand for proofreading and that's what MrCatt was looking form A5PECT also gives a good option, if there's a v2 of the second chapter that's cool but if not, at least the next chapters will be better so all's good right?

That is only if they actually do try to search for it. They didn't look for QC first time and from what they said, except for typos, they are actually satisfied with how they translated it and I have no intentions of forcing them to change that. As I said before, I respect their freedom of uploading w/e they want to internet and I don't want to take it away from them.

I don't want him to be discouraged to keep going so I'm upset with all (too much in fact) the fuss.

They don't really seem to be bothered about it that much though, so I'd say you are the one getting upset for them.

last edited at Mar 29, 2018 5:24PM

So you'd be fine with every manga translated like this? Like YagaKimi for instance. Or something by Itou Hachi?

Damn this is getting out of control

The site thinks im spamming(

Automatic spell-check exists.

Yes, it does. I used the MCword at first, but while typesetting i realized that the shit i translated was some actual shit. And then ended up typing right into the PH ignoring MCW, meh.

In general, translating into a language other than your native one is a very bad idea.

I've been speaking it since i was 4, so I don't think that's really a problem.

If you can't see why then you don't have a good enough grasp on English.

I do see why. I even listed the things in the "many letters" post.

First:

What's with all the cussing?

Second:

And the use of weird words?

Third:

I'm not against taking some liberties, but that was almost a rewrite.

These are not about the language. These are about translation. As I said, I'm going to do the same shit in russian translation (with all the suka blyat stuf instead of what the feck stuff and with adding words from some rus dialect dict), and i bet half those people will also complain about the same stuff.

I can reassure you tho, that the delorean part is the most "rewritten" thing.

looked through the chapter again

Haha, no, it actually isn't. Page 10, The "is she trying to pretend" bobble. Yeah, I think this one is the worst. azoisk, write here what you think about it when you translate it, really looking forward to it.

last edited at Mar 29, 2018 6:59PM

Mr.Catt thank you for uploading this manga, the wait was worth it.

Haha, no, it actually isn't. Page 10, The "is she trying to pretend" bobble. Yeah, I think this one is the worst. azoisk, write here what you think about it when you translate it, really looking forward to it.

You wrote:

"She is... just her usual self..."
"Is she trying to pretend like nothing happened?"
"Is she expecting me to do the same? And does then she want the two of us to pretend like that 'till she's gone"

My take on it (please go easy on me):

"She's the same as always..."
"Ah, I see,"
"she's just pretending that nothing's happened."

The original if anyone else wants to have a go:

"ーいっも通り……"
"ーそつか"
"なかった事にしてくれたんだ"

The original is quite ambiguous in how it should be translated, and yet at the same time not. I do think you've added too much in the last part though.

Your translation overall is decent, but there are too many parts where you take too many liberties.
I'm just barely doing it barebone though, so mine would be too dry and would lose some/most of the implied stuff.

If you would fix the more "jokey" parts and stop using so many swearwords (from what I've seen there is not a single kuso or similarly loaded word or phrase in the original text. The only thing being the やば in page 3. Which you could translate as "shit" instead of "shoot") it would be a much better read.

Anyway, thanks for taking your time to translate something that's been dead for a year.

last edited at Mar 29, 2018 8:31PM

I'm glad this finally got updated, not so happy about the translation job. IDK how new Mr.Catt is to this so I hope they take some of the less... vitriolic criticism in hand and improves their efforts. The first few pages were fine, but the sudden use of a more niche accent, the swearing, the made up words (I think they're made up anyway) as well as the typos and poor sentence structure do throw you out of the story. I'm all for taking a bit of licence to make certain phrases and expressions more relevant to the English language or western audiences but you do have to keep it as faithful to the original as you can.

Not only have I translated some mangas for myself, I have translated some morinaga milk for myself, because I couldn't wait. Thank you, translator(s), for doing this. I know first-hand how much work this is, and how much work it is to get it right. IMO the entire spirit of this thing was conveyed. I do think the TL is over-thinking in the notes- Morinaga goes for simplicity, so it's very likely she's simply making an analogy of chibi -> rena and yuuna == rena -> yuuna. Back when I was translating Secret Recipe for myself, I just assumed I got a lot wrong, but eventually I realized that it's more inexact an art than that.

It's a pity we can't make something like the discord channels. It has #new-releases and #talking-about-new releases. There should almost be a forum for "discuss the translation/scanlation of X" since it's kind of meta to the story.

last edited at Mar 29, 2018 10:23PM

7: "but why then she said she doesn't want to live with me" should probably say "but then why did she say she doesn't want to live with me"

Mmm, idk, do you all guys find all the sentences awkward? To me they sounds perfectly fine.

It's not an uncommon way for people to talk on the internet, but it's bad grammar. I've never heard anyone use that construction in real life.

Also, "Hella" seems to me like some regular English word.

It's currently very common slang, but quite recent--I don't think anyone ever said "hella" before max 10 years ago unless they were talking about the Norse death goddess.

Some people like joke-y translations, I guess?
Hrm. The translation was amusing I suppose, but done to one of my favourite mangaka the disrespect kind of pisses me off.
If you want to screw around, do it as a secondary version.

I don't have any problems with people criticizing me and being rude, but I just want to clarify
that there's some misunderstanding.

I wasn't planning to do a "joke-y" translation and i didn't want to "screw around". Like, i don't find typos funny or anything, i just screwed it up couse ama bampot. And i was completely serious doing all the stuff, and I don't really understand what you're annoyed about, (except the typos and some odd grammar from time to time, ovcorz.)

My apologies then. I suppose I assumed that using regional slang was a sign of considerable fluency, and so using it somewhere it really didn't seem to belong must be some sort of joke. I retract my annoyance.

What's with all the cussing? And the use of weird words? I feel like this was localized by a 7th grader.

Obscene words. Well, sorry, but i don't have any problems with them, actually i really love them. These are the language's instruments to express strong emotions and i see no reasons not to use them, especially when it's already 18+.

I have no objection to obscenity as such. So for instance, if an original work contained obscenity it would be a bad translation not to have it. But I had doubts, which certain posters' alternate translations reinforced, whether there in fact was any in the original. I have read a Morinaga Milk manga in which a character in a bunny suit was sodomized with a carrot, and I don't remember any profanity in it. Even "Passionate Electric Waves", where characters become able to see other people's often obscene inner thoughts, had lots of very crude and shocking stuff coming out of people's heads but not much obscenity as such. I don't think Morinaga Milk uses much obscenity. Putting it in if it wasn't there in the first place changes the tone of the manga.

Dialect . . . is tricky. As a general rule, though, it's my opinion that any piece of translation which is consciously "cool", which draws attention to itself flamboyantly, is probably bad. People are reading a story; if the translation is all, "Look at this, it's a translation!" it will pull them out of the story, jar them away from suspension of disbelief.

Well, i can actually give you some hints so you don't waste your time, you can check the 2 last pages if you want: as i said this "winning the cat" thing is driving me crazy, it may be that just i just missing something...

I don't speak or write a word of Japanese . . . well, OK, one or two standard words that manga often don't bother to translate, but that's it . . . however, over the years I have gotten fairly familiar with quite a few Japanese idioms. I'm suspecting that this is some variant of "I can't win against her". If so it's a common-ish Japanese expression which seems to mean something along the lines of, um . . . "My resolve to be emotionally inflexible and Japanese-stoic cannot hold against her" or something like that. I have a feel for what it means after seeing it used a bunch but it's hard to sum up. But I feel it would fit the situation.

@MrCatt
About "Winning the cat": I'm afraid you confused 飼 and 勝, i.e. "own/raise [a pet]" vs "win".

@Mozaic

In general, translating into a language other than your native one is a very bad idea.

That's a bit of a generalisation. Native does not automatically equate to fluency, and vice versa. English isn't my native language, nor do I live in an English speaking country, yet it's still by far the language I'm the most proficient and comfortable with. Conversely, I've met and seen a great amount of people who mess up the language they're born and raised with.

Also, "Hella" seems to me like some regular English word.

It's currently very common slang, but quite recent--I don't think anyone ever said "hella" before max 10 years ago unless they were talking about the Norse death goddess.

Yeah, I see it used plenty still. I think the issue is that it just doesn't fit the character.

What's with all the cussing? And the use of weird words? I feel like this was localized by a 7th grader.

Obscene words. Well, sorry, but i don't have any problems with them, actually i really love them. These are the language's instruments to express strong emotions and i see no reasons not to use them, especially when it's already 18+.

You may use obscenities, and you may be in an environment where they're acceptable. But that doesn't necessarily mean the character would, or that swearing fits within the story. In the first chapter Rena is established as mature and professional; she isn't the kind of person that would frequently use vulgar speech (even in her own head). Even when Rena would use obscenities, she'd probably use different ones than you.

last edited at Mar 30, 2018 2:52AM

Heckin' great chapter, a real doozy! Shame bout the interrupted feckin' tho.

became a needless garbage in one night

"She was on this loop all night"

The most diligent employee

She might be freelancer. I don't think it needs to be so different from "The deadline must be kept"

Good job today, Rena, see ya!
Good...
Job... Just as good as they come...

The first line, in keigo, is probably Rena's. And although お疲れ and 疲れた are related, translating this as wordplay doesn't work.
"I'm off now, thanks." "See you."
"I'm exhausted... Seriously..."

It's already late... I hope she ate out somewhere or at least ordered some food

She's talking about herself (before pausing and changing her mind). "For dinner... I'll eat out somewhere and..."

Will you drink?
No thanks, I'm fine.
Well if you don't mind, I, on the other hand, say no for juice and yes to beer today

"Rena-chan, chuhai?" "No, I'll go with non-alcoholic."
"Cheers! No non-alcoholic beer for me, I'm having low-malt."

Wow, Lookin' forward to it, ain'tcha?

Was this just dodging translating 打ち上げ or something? "Since this is a wrap party!"

So, I guess, you had plenty of time for searching for an apartment.

This was non-past. "You'll be able to go flat hunting."

I was planning on eating some pot stickers however...

"I realize I'm saying this having eaten gyoza, but..."

Well, it kinda gives me some confidence, hearing that from someone that petite and pretty like you, however...

That's kind of the opposite of her sentiment. "That's easy for someone with your amazing proportions to say!" or "I don't want to hear it from someone as slim as you!"

Jeez, I'm sorry... Really sorry...

"Oh come on... Seriously... Give me a break..."

Lots of fan translators get away with worse though.

About "Winning the cat": I'm afraid you confused 飼 and 勝, i.e. "own/raise [a pet]" vs "win".

No, t'was 勝ってる訳ないじゃん. With "勝".

The contrast between the chapters is too much for me. This does not read like Morinaga, I actually cringed at the cuss words. Mind you, cussing in and of itself is something I am completely fine with, it is a matter of the tone I am used to in Morinaga's works. I do not remember much cussing, if any at all, in "Mare", of all things, let alone her other works. And that is on top of some heavy localisations that contributed more to this feeling jarring rather than conveying anything meaningful about the characters.

Obscene words. Well, sorry, but i don't have any problems with them, actually i really love them. These are the language's instruments to express strong emotions and i see no reasons not to use them, especially when it's already 18+.

Nope, rest in peace, I do not think I will be following this translation. Not my cup of tea.

A confession in the first chapter and tiddies in the second.
That's gotta be a record.