"Elle: You know what? I KNEW you love me, but decided to ignore it, because it's not acknowledged by most people, so now that I'm ALREADY married, I'll say that I WANT to be with you and I'll WILL LOVE YOU FOREVER, because I married random guy only for my family and I'm totally ok with it. Don't worry, you will find some guy to marry too" (she didn't say guy, but since they both hidden their feelings because they knew girl x girl is not going to work, it felt as she meant it that way)

Huh? Sorry, but how this is NOT cruel? People already mentioned that talking it over before or after the wedding was a way better choice. Even when she says things like "I knew you love me", "I want to be with you too", "I will always love you in my heart", she is way too calm. It's as if she planned this talk ages ago. There is just not enough signs of her going through any major drama. And what exactly does she expect to achieve by such confession? Does she expect Fleur to still be her best friend, while they BOTH act like this cheating thing just after marriage didn't happen? Hell, if she will always love Fleur and married just for family, I can see them starting a romance sooner or later. Elle just comes as heartless, by easily sealing away her mutual love and telling Fleur to go find someone else. I honestly don't get why Fleur didn't go mad at Elle at all.

This is totally how this felt, freaking Fleur shouldve just slapped Elle and started freaking raging outa there to never come back.
Like Fleur was doing fine with the marriage news, being present and all, even accepting it and moving on at a healthy rate... Before that.

Nosebleed

The amount of people turning this into a culture debate is over 9000. I doubt the author had that kind of intent when writing this

Well... When I was talking to her she wrote: I just needed to try story with bad end

But she don't wanna do this again. It hurts too much :P She prefers happy and... lewd stories :P

If you talk with with her again, tell her that it would be a great idea to give Fleur a one shot... Too see if she finds true happiness TwT
Also, I just noticed, in my previous coment I got the names mixed ... I'm so bad with names

lol western yuri fans are angry that "marry off cause of family" is stupid a concept -stuff like that doesnt exist anymore in our time(maybe in yours )..............well..this shit its real in some of asian countries......in many cases. gays and lesbian avoid the drama with the family cause the family is priority amongs all.

if a daughter or a son goes against family..you will get a very bad treatment in society in general.(doesnt matter if its Thailand, South Korea, Japan or elsewhere- You can compare this situation with those who wants to get out from Scientology. Family and friends will turn against you. They will look at you as a bad person for not treating your parent right since they are the one who raise you up etc. most of you western people wont understand this pressure.)

most of these marriage....end up having affair . ............look at south korean for example(they are extremly hiding their LBGT life. to avoid to get trouble with the family and society).

you think this story has no logic asp. the bride confess to her bestfriend at her wedding?

well there was a case in thailand - a gay couple.(both has good job-means they are very high society-1 guy is a doctor)
1 day the doctor guy told his boyfriend that...his family want him to married off a girl and start to have family since he reach all goals already(finished with education-have a nice job) the boyfriend understood the situation and agree to it. he help him with the wedding and was his bestman. ....(they break up of cause- and the boyfriend went abroad for work)

now tell me ..where is the logic in that?...but its real.

autor of this story doesnt make up shit for cliché drama.

last edited at Jun 5, 2015 4:26PM

I'm in the same country with this author. *i cant say that it is all truth, it's just from my perspective.

i guess the bride doesn't marry because she is forced(directly). she do it on her own will to satisfy her parent and to be a good/proper person(in social view) for herself.

and why is she do that?? is she an idiot? well .. let me explain somethings before you judge her.

our culture is not that strict that much but still...

mostly i have seen, the parent goal is to make their child be with them to the rest of their life, take care of them when they're old. Bond the child with love and obligation from the day the child born.

so we are not forced directly, But under the spell of "LOVE&DUTY" word from parent.

of cause, we have freedom to choose BUT if you dare to betray their hope... prepare yourself to face them in tears. and what will happen when your important person cry?

as for me, it's hard to find happiness. it's like you need to choose which happiness side you want to keep and you will lose another one.

The bride really love her bridesmate, but love her duty more. she make it CLEARLY and say goodbye. i think sharp and clean wound get recover faster than rough and dirty wound.

sigh ... so, is she an idiot? as for me .. "YES" for not catching up her own and the one she love's happiness , "NO" for trying to live as she want.

JESUS, PEOPLE. Are we seriously gonna start discussing Asian culture vs western culture around here?
Can you not see that the artist simply wanted to create this story simply because that is what she wanted to and not because of any LGBT propaganda?

The logic in this story is even more ridiculous than any NTR doujin in the world, combined. But the comments...dear god...this is just plain stupidity incarnate!

How DARE we talk about Asian culture about a story whose plot relies on Asian culture? It's stupidity incarnate to talk about such topics that haven't been approved! I am unable to simply go read another topic, so shut up shut up SHUT UP!!

But seriously, "LGBT propaganda"?

LOL no. The plot point is about Arranged Marriage and you are a fool if you think that only Asian countries have it. You guys just suddenly pulled it out of nowhere and demonized Asian marriages because...well, you guys are not Asians and therefore assumes that it goes this way.

We don't even know if the story actually happened in an Asian government

The artists simply wanted to create a sad story. Keep any cultural criticism out of sight, please?

On culture: Arranged marriages were common in "The West" up until very recently, and still exist in a few corners of it. And they're common in various other places that aren't Asia. So it's certainly not just an Asian thing.

However, when arranged marriages were common in the West, they sucked. People, particularly women, eventually rebelled against them because they sucked (and because the economics and technology and whatnot made it more practical for them to rebel). They do not suddenly become just fine because they're happening somewhere else; they sucked here, they suck there.
Similar things go for sexism. Sexism is less bad nowadays in "the West" because women somewhat successfully fought like crazy against it, because it was nasty and unjust. In those places where women have not yet managed to do that, it remains nasty and unjust. It doesn't get a pass because different culture. Sooner or later, women will fight hard and change things.

It's understandable if individual people go along with a culture with unjust things in it. Cultural pressures are strong, people brought up with a set of assumptions tend to accept them, and things that are basically nasty may have reasons and connections and side effects that make it hard to shake them. But that doesn't make injustice ultimately OK, just well entrenched. No matter what culture it's part of.

LOL no. The plot point is about Arranged Marriage and you are a fool if you think that only Asian countries have it. You guys just suddenly pulled it out of nowhere and demonized Asian marriages because...well, you guys are not Asians and therefore assumes that it goes this way.

Wait, what?

1) It's not about arranged marriages. Elle isn't having an arranged marriage.

2) Who's demonizing Asian marriages? Can you point them out 'cuz I sure don't see it. We think it's bad there's such a stigma against homosexuals and family pressure, but that's hardly demonizing.

3) Some of the people commenting are Asian, dude. Including at least one from the same country this story is set in.

We don't even know if the story actually happened in an Asian government

We do know it's by a Thai artist and we've had at least one Thai person say this stuff happens there.

The artists simply wanted to create a sad story. Keep any cultural criticism out of sight, please?

Shut up about things that make you think! Shut up shut up SHUT UP!

I don't want to nick pick on small things so I guess I'll just argue on this one.

Shut up about things that make you think! Shut up shut up SHUT UP!

sigh
No man, there is a difference between making you think, and simply overthinking it out of proportion, to the point of delusion. There is no deeper meaning here. Just a cliche bad end

If the manga was made by a westerner, we will not have an argument about culture. Ponder about that for a while

last edited at Jun 5, 2015 8:33PM

That made me cry

Mind if i join you?

last edited at Jun 5, 2015 10:28PM

Wow....so many comments...I wonder what about....the manga was pretty but the story was blah

Argh.. eventhough the author doesnt mean to do anything that far about culture&logic, just want to wrote some bad ending as she has claimed.

but still.. that emotional about pressure under our culture and social really hit my heart and it's hurt.

well .. not the same story but im under that feeling too.

in my opinion, human is being that can survive with social system. the more you walk away from social system , the more you can be in danger.

my lover and I have keep our relationship in secret almost ten years now, to avoid any problem we might get. It's easier to live here when the other dont know the truth. sometime i must stand to see and help my lover use some of her friend pretending as he is her lover instead of me.

cruel? .. no, as long as she doesnt do like the bride in this story does, choose me more than that marriage status and her family's hope. like i do for her, it's fine.

; . ; ถึงขุ่นพี่จะบอกว่าแค่แต่งเรื่องขำๆ แต่มันกระแทกใจขุ่นน้องและคนในนี้ดีจริงๆ ขร่ะ /ตบมือออ

Are people seriously still arguing over this? I thought it was clear and simple.

If you didn't like the story, fine. That's fair. Everyone has an opinion, and if feeling angsty with a not-bad-but-definitely-not-happy ending is not your cup of tea (heaven knows I don't like it) no one is in any place to criticize you for it. But it's a completely 'nother thing to take that angsty feeling and claim the story doesn't make sense and is bad because it has roots in a completely factual reality.

I'll repeat, it is Oh-Kay to not like this and it is Oh-Kay to not agree with the author's choice of story pathing. So bag and embrace that, and don't try to take the barber with you on a journey across the desert.

Didn't expect the marriage issue to become this deep. I personally say that this kind of wedding is possible and realistic, bullshit but real, that why its sad.

Are people seriously still arguing over this? I thought it was clear and simple.

If you didn't like the story, fine. That's fair. Everyone has an opinion, and if feeling angsty with a not-bad-but-definitely-not-happy ending is not your cup of tea (heaven knows I don't like it) no one is in any place to criticize you for it. But it's a completely 'nother thing to take that angsty feeling and claim the story doesn't make sense and is bad because it has roots in a completely factual reality.

I'll repeat, it is Oh-Kay to not like this and it is Oh-Kay to not agree with the author's choice of story pathing. So bag and embrace that, and don't try to take the barber with you on a journey across the desert.

I don't think most people are arguing that the arranged marriage aspect of the story doesn't make sense. Like, its pretty widely known that arranged marriage is a common thing in asian countries.

What they are arguing about is the fact that, Fleur just accepting Elle's confession without any sort of confrontation is kinda unbelievable. I mean, just think for a moment, how you would react if you had to sit through the wedding of your loved one ignorant of the fact that they know your feelings and then later they come to you and reveal it to your face that they knew all along and expect you to accept that ?

The way the conversation at the end unfolds is downright stupid because, its not helping Fleur move on its just Elle being a selfish asshole.

Just for interesting fact. This story is based on true story (no, it's not Ratana herself).

Life doesn't make sense in many kind of situation, including this one ;)

If the manga was made by a westerner, we will not have an argument about culture. Ponder about that for a while

...Pretty sure we'd still be talking about culture, in that case. We might not specify the point as often, but it sure as hell would be a big part of the discussion. Ponder about what? Dude, culture exists. This story functions because of culture. In fact, if we didn't think about culture whatsoever and just treated it like it was happening in the west, or wherever we happen to live, the story or its characters would probably seem like total bullshit. This was written by a Thai artist in the context of common social norms in Thailand, ergo we talk about Thai culture when discussing it. It's because of this understanding that we can be somewhat respectfully sympathetic of Elle's position, even if we find it frustrating, rather than simply thinking of her as being insincere, or a coward.

Matter of fact, I'm seriously not seeing where or when folks are arguing about culture, or even making comparisons of east vs. west. I see some people mentioning eastern concepts of family as part of why they felt sad or frustrated with the story, and I see some people telling others to shut up about culture because it's irrelevant(?) and this annoys them somehow.

last edited at Jun 6, 2015 2:49PM

Just for interesting fact. This story is based on true story (no, it's not Ratana herself).

Life doesn't make sense in many kind of situation, including this one ;)

Wow. I didn't think someone as cruel as Elle actually existed =.=

Wow. I didn't think someone as cruel as Elle actually existed =.=

Sometimes, is necessary to be firm and yes, cruel, for the best.

I used to be in touch with an ex who I loved too much and for a time I believed we could work things out and get back together. When she realized that, she said straight to my face that while I was a very dear friend to her, she would never date me again.

That hurt, a LOT. But it was for the best.

Sometimes, is necessary to be firm and yes, cruel, for the best.

I used to be in touch with an ex who I loved too much and for a time I believed we could work things out and get back together. When she realized that, she said straight to my face that while I was a very dear friend to her, she would never date me again.

That hurt, a LOT. But it was for the best.

That's a bit different than if you're ex had said that, while she loved you and knew the feeling was mutual, she was going to kiss you once and then go back to her husband who she just married in the wedding she had you help plan and take part in despite knowing your feelings.

"I don't love you and will never love you" is a firm and maybe even necessary thing to tell someone, but that's not what Elle did.

Sometimes, is necessary to be firm and yes, cruel, for the best.

I used to be in touch with an ex who I loved too much and for a time I believed we could work things out and get back together. When she realized that, she said straight to my face that while I was a very dear friend to her, she would never date me again.

That hurt, a LOT. But it was for the best.

That seems quite different though. For one, from what I can tell she didn't drag things out with telling you which makes things way less cruel. And "You're a good friend but I won't date you" is completely different from "We got all this mutual love going on but well, this is my wedding after all soo... you know?"

My point isn't that it was the same, it was that at times some cruelty is needed to help people to move forward.

Especially when that people is of the kind to keep things for themselves, hoping for the best rather than face them.

last edited at Jun 6, 2015 3:50PM

Personally I don't think there's any premeditated cruelty on Elle's part. What I believe is that she didn't plan to do this, but rather upon seeing Fleur's pain at the ceremony and the fact that she clearly hasn't been able to let go decided to take advantage of the circumstance of Fleur being alone to try to make a clean break. She wasn't necessarily successful because she was too honest about her own feelings, but it does end with a mutual agreement to move on from those feelings and a wish for Fleur's happiness with someone else, both of which Fleur seems to accept.

A good decision on Elle's part? Probably not. There were probably lots of better approaches. But this is a very human one, and the story doesn't pretend Fleur is without flaws.

This is bullshit. They have done this kind of story like a million times already. Why this particular story still hurts so much? Now everyone's life will be miserable. Maybe Fleur can eventually get over it, But Elle and the groom is trapped in loveless marriage. I hope at least they'll learn to love each other because divorce will only hurt more people.