Erika’s distraught expression in the last panel suggests that she’s telling Aya that she loves Koto, not that she’s attacking Aya.

I need actual evidence in the text, not your personal speculation.
Sounds familiar, cause it is lol.
It could very much be she hysterically screaming at Aya that Koto would love her back if not for her existence.
Plus the Tanabata wish she wrote and the guilt which has tormented her so far… looks like my speculation is more concrete than you.

Erika’s distraught expression in the last panel suggests that she’s telling Aya that she loves Koto, not that she’s attacking Aya.

I need actual evidence in the text, not your personal speculation.
Sounds familiar, cause it is lol.
It could very much be she hysterically screaming at Aya that Koto would love her back if not for her existence.
Plus the Tanabata wish she wrote and the guilt which has tormented her so far… looks like my speculation is more concrete than you.

This is your usual bullshit—unless middle-school Erika was aware that she had the supernatural power to send Aya into limbo with a Tanabata wish.

Looking at that facial expression/body language of Erika’s and calling it her “hysterically screaming at Aya” is a prime example of what a ridiculously poor reader of texts your bias renders you.

last edited at Dec 28, 2024 11:15PM

Erika’s distraught expression in the last panel suggests that she’s telling Aya that she loves Koto, not that she’s attacking Aya.

I need actual evidence in the text, not your personal speculation.
Sounds familiar, cause it is lol.
It could very much be she hysterically screaming at Aya that Koto would love her back if not for her existence.
Plus the Tanabata wish she wrote and the guilt which has tormented her so far… looks like my speculation is more concrete than you.

This is your usual bullshit—unless middle-school Erika was aware that she had the supernatural power to send Aya into limbo with a Tanabata wish.

Calling that facial expression/body language of Erika’s as her “hysterically screaming at Aya” is a prime example of what a ridiculously poor reader of texts your bias renders you.

Then please please please explain (with evidence from the text ofc lol) where exactly does her guilt come from.
The fact she doesn't even think she has the right to confess her feelings to Koto is telling.

last edited at Dec 28, 2024 11:15PM

Erika had mentioned before about tanabata day but aya swore she was only there til the day before. She has definitely lost time she can't remember. Might also have to do with what happened to her grandpa that night.

But Aya also had a sense of deja vu, suggesting memory suppression of the last day, rather than her having been whisked away early and Erika talking to a different Aya.

Then please please please explain (with evidence from the text ofc lol) where exactly does her guilt come from.

If she 'wished' for Aya to disappear, and Aya disappeared, that would explain guilt. That doesn't mean Erika knew her wish would really cause Aya to disappear. There is no evidence that Erika knew or knows she has supernatural powers, and there is evidence against: she 'wished' for Aya to return but didn't expect it to work.

While it’s not exactly hard information, I thought this page was extremely suggestive:

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/how_to_break_a_triangle_ch17#34

• Top three panels: flashback montage from middle school through high school to the immediate present (they’re wearing same clothes as the preceding scene). Then:

• Tanabata wishes on a tree. (If I recall correctly, we saw a similar shot when Erika wished for Aya’s return, but not as part of her original disappearance.)

• Then what looks like a distressed Erika talking to Aya, who is dressed in her middle-school uniform.

I read this last sequence as reinforcing the suggestion that Erika did write a wish that Aya would disappear, either before or after their festival conversation. Erika’s distraught expression in the last panel suggests that she’s telling Aya that she loves Koto, not that she’s attacking Aya.

That last panel with crying Erika is interesting, since Aya being in uniform and carrying her school bag implies this did not happen that last time Erika remembers seeing her, at the festival. Or if it did happen on Tanabata that Aya had no intention of showing up and participating with Koto in the first place? Or possibly didn't know what day it was?
Considering the context of the next two pages I think is very possible the topic of conversation wasn't even Koto there, but Erika's insecurity in being compared to Aya, especially as an actor. I think it's pretty clear by now that Erika's unrequited love is not actually an urge driving her to action and controlling her path. She seems to actually have a pretty good self control handle on it, especially compared with her acting suffering in spite of herself not because of Koto but because of Aya. Romance with Koto is like "a really nice to have if I can get it in a way where we're all happy and she's not using me as a rebound," but her personal insecurities are much deeper and more effecting.

Erika’s distraught expression in the last panel suggests that she’s telling Aya that she loves Koto, not that she’s attacking Aya.

I need actual evidence in the text, not your personal speculation.
Sounds familiar, cause it is lol.
It could very much be she hysterically screaming at Aya that Koto would love her back if not for her existence.
Plus the Tanabata wish she wrote and the guilt which has tormented her so far… looks like my speculation is more concrete than you.

This is your usual bullshit—unless middle-school Erika was aware that she had the supernatural power to send Aya into limbo with a Tanabata wish.

Calling that facial expression/body language of Erika’s as her “hysterically screaming at Aya” is a prime example of what a ridiculously poor reader of texts your bias renders you.

Then please please please explain (with evidence from the text ofc lol) where exactly does her guilt come from.
The fact she doesn't even think she has the right to confess her feelings to Koto is telling.

Look, you’ve said over and over that absolutely nothing anything anyone says will ever change your opinion of Erika, so you might as well stop trolling and pretending that you give a flying f*ck about anything resembling “textual evidence.”

But in the spirit of fair play, I’ll repeat one last time what I and others have said any number of times before and which you’ve ignored: Erika’s guilt can be easily explained by the fact that when she was young (“a child,” just like Aya at the time) she wished for something to happen to Aya, and then Aya disappeared. Just like any number of people in real life have said something in anger to someone and then regretted it when something happened to that person.

You’ve never yet had the actual courage of your convictions enough to come right out and say, “Erika is an evil witch who possesses the supernatural power to send people she dislikes to Spirited Away Land via Tanabata wishes,” perhaps because you realize how stupid that would sound. You just keep beating around the bush and implying it.

last edited at Dec 28, 2024 11:33PM

Erika’s distraught expression in the last panel suggests that she’s telling Aya that she loves Koto, not that she’s attacking Aya.

I need actual evidence in the text, not your personal speculation.
Sounds familiar, cause it is lol.
It could very much be she hysterically screaming at Aya that Koto would love her back if not for her existence.
Plus the Tanabata wish she wrote and the guilt which has tormented her so far… looks like my speculation is more concrete than you.

This is your usual bullshit—unless middle-school Erika was aware that she had the supernatural power to send Aya into limbo with a Tanabata wish.

Calling that facial expression/body language of Erika’s as her “hysterically screaming at Aya” is a prime example of what a ridiculously poor reader of texts your bias renders you.

Then please please please explain (with evidence from the text ofc lol) where exactly does her guilt come from.
The fact she doesn't even think she has the right to confess her feelings to Koto is telling.

Look, you’ve said over and over that absolutely nothing anything anyone says will ever change your opinion of Erika, so you might as well stop trolling and pretending that you give a flying f*ck about anything resembling “textual evidence.”

But in the spirit of fair play, I’ll repeat one last time what I and others have said any number of times before and which you’ve ignored: Erika’s guilt can be easily explained by the fact that when she was young (“a child,” just like Aya at the time) she wished for something to happen to Aya, and then Aya disappeared. Just like any number of people in real life have said something in anger to someone and then regretted it when something happened to that person.

This is all your speculation not the actual content in the text. The guilt could be very much coming from she actually stabbed Aya to death seven years ago lol.

last edited at Dec 28, 2024 11:47PM

This is all your speculation not the actual content in the text. The guilt could be very much coming from she actually stabbed Aya to death seven years ago lol.

Thank you for providing the ultimate proof that no one needs to pay any attention to what you say about this series ever again.

I suspect that I’m not the only one who will find it a considerable relief.

last edited at Dec 28, 2024 11:54PM

Erika had mentioned before about tanabata day but aya swore she was only there til the day before. She has definitely lost time she can't remember. Might also have to do with what happened to her grandpa that night.

But Aya also had a sense of deja vu, suggesting memory suppression of the last day, rather than her having been whisked away early and Erika talking to a different Aya.

Then please please please explain (with evidence from the text ofc lol) where exactly does her guilt come from.

If she 'wished' for Aya to disappear, and Aya disappeared, that would explain guilt. That doesn't mean Erika knew her wish would really cause Aya to disappear. There is no evidence that Erika knew or knows she has supernatural powers, and there is evidence against: she 'wished' for Aya to return but didn't expect it to work.

If she lashed out at Aya for daring to date her crush, and Aya disappeared, that would also explain her guilt.

But l do think she did the both: fought Aya and wished her disappearance.

This is all your speculation not the actual content in the text. The guilt could be very much coming from she actually stabbed Aya to death seven years ago lol.

Thank you for providing the ultimate proof that no one needs to pay any attention to what you say about this series ever again.

I suspect that I’m not the only one who will find it a considerable relief.

LOL
You are the one asking for actual evidence while giving nothing in your own theory.

You can't even explain why Erika still feels guilt even if Aya has come back now.

Honestly after this chapter Erika is definitely one of my favorites too, I really like how this affects her in a quiet, but also not really, way. A shame that the discussion's gotten yet again reduced to her being an evil mastermind who helps supernatural forces kidnap little girls. No matter what she does, this distorted view of her as a character will bring out malice in the simplest actions, even if she's taking care of her friend and showing that she understands just how much she loves Aya.
I feel that that way of thinking just undermines the relationship between the three, when clearly they all deeply care about the other, even if there's a bit of rivalry between Erika and Aya, their friendship wasn't insignificant and her disappearance destroyed them both as people. I don't think anyone should be jumping to blame a character who clearly has problems with blaming herself and possibly making things worse than they are for herself. Erika was a kid, Aya was a kid... This doesn't mean it was really her fault, and again, it's likely this was something Aya herself wished for. Her disappearance was a way to break the triangle, remember that Erika was, and is, dear to her too.

They're all friends. It's possible she felt again that she didn't belong if her presence was causing conflict between people she loves. If it's possible that it was Erika who wrote the wish, then it's just as possible Aya wrote it too and Erika thinks she was the one who caused it.

It's a different work, but for me taking Erika's thoughts at face value would be like believing Kamikoshi Sorawo is really as unaffected by things as she claims to be in her mind, when out of it it's completely different.
In this work, the characters feel so much human to me it's a disservice to the text itself to treat them as shallow, with nothing else behind their thoughts and actions. We do not know enough about Aya yet, it's been hinting that she's got a worry the other two never really caught onto.

Really, what a lovely two, can't wait to see everyone have their hearts broken. Koto cute. The composition of pages 6, 16, 24, 32, 34 is so beautiful to me. I'm hoping that we get some Kumagaya and Aya chat soon, it feels like we're reaching a point in the story where it'll touch more on the supernatural aspect of it.
I need a tragic ending, I need pain!

last edited at Dec 29, 2024 12:12AM

but this was a good chapter in terms of Erika. We see her being careful to try to have a good impact on everyone, including drunk Koto. This is despite snarking at people and questioning herself. The fact that she's not sure if she "has a right" to confess suggests to me that getting with Koto is in fact not her primary goal, despite it clearly being something she wants a lot.

I agree, this chapter was good in terms of Erika. It made me even more curious about Erika's intentions and the purpose of her character in the story. For me, this chapter highlighted that when Aya isn’t around, Erika is the one taking care of Koto, and vice versa. I have a feeling the story is going to get really intense. For some reason, I can’t shake the thought that Erika might leave the picture toward the end of the series, realizing her feelings for Koto won’t reach her.
Chapter 8 kind of hinted at this through Erika’s internal thoughts.
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/how_to_break_a_triangle_ch08#26

Also I don’t mean to sound rude by saying this, but after reading the discussion about Erika in this forum, I feel more confused than informed. The discussion about whether she is or isn’t manipulative or selfish etc are slightly distorting my perception of her. At this point, instead of speculating about what might happen, I’m more curious to see how the story unfolds with each update and being surprised along the way. :D

I totally forgot that Koto already asked Erika out on a whim when they were in high school... I'm not sure I'd count the fact that she declined back then as foreshadowing, as it seems she didn't want to just be a replacement for Aya. Though Erika does feel like the designated third wheel independently from that.

I don't think that's a rude think to say at all. I kind of feel like I need a drink after just skimming the latest "debate" because sweet Jesus that did not need to take up more than a hundred posts again. I only don't completely regret it because i found an actually interesting explanation of how the characters' names reference Tanabata lore buried in there.

but this was a good chapter in terms of Erika. We see her being careful to try to have a good impact on everyone, including drunk Koto. This is despite snarking at people and questioning herself. The fact that she's not sure if she "has a right" to confess suggests to me that getting with Koto is in fact not her primary goal, despite it clearly being something she wants a lot.

I agree, this chapter was good in terms of Erika. It made me even more curious about Erika's intentions and the purpose of her character in the story. For me, this chapter highlighted that when Aya isn’t around, Erika is the one taking care of Koto, and vice versa. I have a feeling the story is going to get really intense. For some reason, I can’t shake the thought that Erika might leave the picture toward the end of the series, realizing her feelings for Koto won’t reach her.
Chapter 8 kind of hinted at this through Erika’s internal thoughts.
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/how_to_break_a_triangle_ch08#26

Also I don’t mean to sound rude by saying this, but after reading the discussion about Erika in this forum, I feel more confused than informed. The discussion about whether she is or isn’t manipulative or selfish etc are slightly distorting my perception of her. At this point, instead of speculating about what might happen, I’m more curious to see how the story unfolds with each update and being surprised along the way. :D

I totally forgot that Koto already asked Erika out on a whim when they were in high school... I'm not sure I'd count the fact that she declined back then as foreshadowing, as it seems she didn't want to just be a replacement for Aya. Though Erika does feel like the designated third wheel independently from that.

I don't think that's a rude think to say at all. I kind of feel like I need a drink after just skimming the latest "debate" because sweet Jesus that did not need to take up more than a hundred posts again. I only don't completely regret it because i found an actually interesting explanation of how the characters' names reference Tanabata lore buried in there.

That's a good point about Erika not wanting to be a replacement for Aya back in high school, I hadn’t considered it from that perspective, but it definitely adds more depth to her character. The "designated third wheel" role does seem to follow her, though I wonder if the story might eventually challenge or subvert that dynamic.

I still have a feeling that toward the end of the series, Erika might step out of the love triangle altogether—possibly by finding a new love interest, like Tsukuba. In this recent chapter, Tsukuba’s character is becoming more prominent, and she seems to be growing curious about Erika. It’s just a hunch based on the hints in this chapter, but I’m interested to see where it goes. but it's just a little theory of mine. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

last edited at Dec 29, 2024 1:08AM

Thank you for providing the ultimate proof that no one needs to pay any attention to what you say about this series ever again.

I suspect that I’m not the only one who will find it a considerable relief.

Since I'm a hipster and trendsetter I'm just pleased to see the thing I got on two days prior become popular ;)

I don't really think any character is suppose to be perceived as the bad guy . Just flawed humans

Erika had mentioned before about tanabata day but aya swore she was only there til the day before. She has definitely lost time she can't remember. Might also have to do with what happened to her grandpa that night.

But Aya also had a sense of deja vu, suggesting memory suppression of the last day, rather than her having been whisked away early and Erika talking to a different Aya.

Then please please please explain (with evidence from the text ofc lol) where exactly does her guilt come from.

If she 'wished' for Aya to disappear, and Aya disappeared, that would explain guilt. That doesn't mean Erika knew her wish would really cause Aya to disappear. There is no evidence that Erika knew or knows she has supernatural powers, and there is evidence against: she 'wished' for Aya to return but didn't expect it to work.

i didn't say she was whisked away early. I said she has lost her memory one way or another, which by implication means there's possibly more that she can't remember between tanabata eve and showing back up. Like being in a spirit word or w/e. thus saying she was 'peter pan'd'. ie taken to another world. And aya only brushed it off as dejavu because she did not want to face the memory that was coming back.

Also, my take about erika feeling like she had no right to confess was because she had ulterior goals for aya and koto getting back together. She knew it wouldn't work out between the two, and she was hoping it would finally get koto to move on so she could confess. She has been helping aya for purely selfish reasons, or so she thinks. i think she would have helped regardless, because i did get a sense that they were friends too in middle school, but that's just how i read it.

With aya just disappearing koto got no resolution. It's incredibly hard to compete with the memory of a ghost. So, with aya finally showing back up, erika saw it as an opportunity for koto to lose this self-idealization she has placed on aya's memory. And honestly, aya and koto no longer belong together. Aya is still a 14-year-old child and koto is now an adult. they are just in different places in their lives now, with different levels of maturity. You can see it when koto would try to get close physically with aya.

last edited at Dec 29, 2024 5:08AM

Erika keeps being my favorite character, her support and self-doubts feel like they really help build her character and push her to action, rather than drag her down. And the way she acts, with a bit a selfishness and a lot more of "actually helping others but feeling guilty about it", all the while wanting to make her friends happy and get past her own complexes towards Aya, make me really want to know where she'll end up.

Unlike earlier in the story, I've long stopped thinking Erika ending up with Koto would be a "bad ending" for her, since Koto has made some progress and feels more human. But, I also do think Erika's since ties to Aya and Koto are not purely defined by romantic attraction, she could have a happy ending even otherwise. Of course, for the sake of her happy end, she'd have to find someone who's been actually developed as a character, not just someone to pair up with in the end - but I feel characters other than the main three are starting to have a more prominent role.

Only hint we get from what happened 7 years ago is that panel on page 34 of chapter 17. Looks like Erika went to Aya after school (on Tanabata day?) and cried, probably telling her to "give her back Koto". Aya being Aya, I doubt she agreed and probably said that it was up to Koto, not to her. A distraught Erika then maybe wrote a wish for Aya to disappear.

Why that wish was magically granted is unknown, but the background theme being Tanabata, light from the stars and the summer triangle, we can infer that these 3 girls represent the 3 stars, Altair, Vega and Deneb.

The thing about these stars is that in the sky they appear close due to perspective, but are actually very far from each other.

Vega represents Orihime, Altair represents Hikoboshi. They're separated by the Milky way. But Deneb isn't part of the Tanabata story. It's an "extra". If we say that Aya and Koto are the "star-crossed lovers" does that mean that Erika isn't part of their story and is the reason for their estrangement?

Then comes Kumagaya-kun. It's hinted he got spirited away too. But he's not in any triangle that we know of, now or in the past. His place in the story isn't clear yet.

Something has to happen for the story to move forward. Erika being on the same stage, as an equal, as Aya isn't going to solve the triangle. Even if she confesses, so what? Something has to give and neither of the 3 MCs are ready to give up on their love interest. The only way at this point is a Deus Ex Machina. Time travel , magic, you name it.

Also, my take about erika feeling like she had no right to confess was because she had ulterior goals for aya and koto getting back together. She knew it wouldn't work out between the two, and she was hoping it would finally get koto to move on so she could confess. 

Another Erika's defender trying to find a way to excuse the terrible thing she had done back in middle school lol.
Let me remind you. Erika has been tormented by her guilt in the past seven years. You can see in chapter 8 she also didn't think she has the right to confess when she and Koto were high school students.

Also, my take about erika feeling like she had no right to confess was because she had ulterior goals for aya and koto getting back together. She knew it wouldn't work out between the two, and she was hoping it would finally get koto to move on so she could confess. 

Another Erika's defender trying to find a way to excuse the terrible thing she had done back in middle school lol.
Let me remind you. Erika has been tormented by her guilt in the past seven years. You can see in chapter 8 she also didn't think she has the right to confess when she and Koto were high school students.

Why are you offensive??? The guy didn't even try to defend her. They only explained their take about what motive for Erika's action was. How was that excusing and defending to you?

Also I don’t mean to sound rude by saying this, but after reading the discussion about Erika in this forum, I feel more confused than informed. The discussion about whether she is or isn’t manipulative or selfish etc are slightly distorting my perception of her. At this point, instead of speculating about what might happen, I’m more curious to see how the story unfolds with each update and being surprised along the way. :D

I felt the same way. The first 20~ discussion posts were fun to read but at some point the discussion about Erika always running at the same 2 spots, whether she is a super terrible human being or she didn't do anything wrong. At some point everyone started attacking each other personally :/

last edited at Dec 29, 2024 6:56AM

@Blastaar

This is your usual bullshit—unless middle-school Erika was aware that she had the supernatural power to send Aya into limbo with a Tanabata wish.

I think we can say she didn't know. She finds the idea that Aya would come back with a Tanabata wish to be strange and then is surprised when Aya really returns. It's possible her grandma told her "by the way you have magic spirit powers" and Erika didn't take it seriously, but Erika herself didn't expect it to work this way.

She was also probably trying to convince herself what happened to Koto wasn't her fault because Tanabata doesn't work that way. Maybe this is why she didn't try sooner, since attempting it would be acknowledging the possibility it was her fault. With Aya's return, the seeming confirmation of Erika having caused the disappearance would have pushed her guilt to a new level, which is mental state we have been seeing in the chapters.

last edited at Dec 29, 2024 7:48AM

@Blastaar

This is your usual bullshit—unless middle-school Erika was aware that she had the supernatural power to send Aya into limbo with a Tanabata wish.

I think we can say she didn't know. She finds the idea that Aya would come back with a Tanabata wish to be strange and then is surprised when Aya really returns. It's possible her grandma told her "by the way you have magic spirit powers" and Erika didn't take it seriously, but Erika herself didn't expect it to work this way.

She was also probably trying to convince herself what happened to Koto wasn't her fault because Tanabata doesn't work that way. Maybe this is why she didn't try sooner, since attempting it would be acknowledging the possibility it was her fault. With Aya's return, the seeming confirmation of Erika having caused the disappearance would have pushed her guilt to a new level, which is mental state we have been seeing in the chapters.

I don’t mean this dismissively, but I have always thought that we can take everything you say here for granted. As I have said before, it’s theoretically possible that this story will later morph into a Qualia the Purple-type “Erika alters the fabric of the entire universe with her Tanabata-wish powers” fantasy, but there’s absolutely no indication at this point that the author has any interest in doing that.

Since this thread is clearly never going to stop being the Erika Argument thread, for better or worse, I'm going to try to get at the Erika Argument from a different direction.

I certainly agree their relationship is different, with Aya needing more material support than the other two (but Erika/Koto being much more in need of emotional support). That's true despite it being the same level of support Aya needed before. She nonetheless is solving these issues very quickly and not dependent on any one person, merely accepting assistance from various people who are also getting something out of it.

Eukene, just like Erika I know you mean well, but just like Erika you fundamentally misunderstand Aya. Aya needs at least as much emotional support as Erika and Koto do. Others in this thread have done a great job outlining how Aya's maturity and self-assurance is a facade. She is a broken girl with deep-set abandonment issues who (in the past) literally -- albeit semi-unconsciously -- tested Koto on whether or not she would continue to love her despite being rejected, and fell in love with her only because she became convinced that Koto will love her no matter what. She is a 14-year-old who was forced to mature way faster than she should have due to the failures of the adults in her life, but that doesn't mean she's actually mature, it means she pathologically hides her vulnerabilities and weaknesses because she fundamentally lacks faith that anyone could possibly love the real her.

I'm going into so much detail about this because Erika's fatal flaw isn't that she secretly wants her friends to break up, or that she (I think very obviously at this point) made a Tanabata wish 7 years ago for Aya to disappear. Those are both understandable. It's that, even now at age 21, she over-idealizes Aya to such an extent that she dehumanizes her. When Koto asked her out as high schoolers, Erika refused her because she didn't want to be Aya's stand-in. Despite her extra 7 years of experience on her, Aya acting together with her again has caused Erika's acting to regress. She made the wish to reverse Aya's disappearance not for Aya's sake, but for her own "Unless Aya comes back, I can't face Koto". I want to emphasize this: even as a 21-year-old, she's still competing with the ghost of a 14-year-old, she can't be honest with Koto about her decade-long crush because she's more concerned with beating Aya!

The Erika Defenders (tm) often say something like "Erika's thoughts may be selfish but her actions aren't." However, this isn't true, and again Eukene's post (sorry but it really is a perfect example of my point) shows us why. Despite realizing during the first day that Aya is not an untouchable existence, she's a young child, Erika -- like Eukene -- subconsciously sees her as needing essentially no emotional support or comfort. This is a girl who's been forced to skip 7 years of her life, who has no family left, who has to rebuild it starting from scratch. The closest thing she's had to family since her reappearance was Koto, and that relationship ended up turning abusive. Erika knows this, knows that Aya is an expert at hiding her pain, both in the past and now, but even though she is literally the only person left in Aya's life who can provide her meaningful emotional support, she refuses to. Why? Her guilt, of course. As I've argued before, Erika's self-hatred is actually making her a worse person in reality. She over-idealizes Aya so much that she feels herself unworthy of even being Aya's friend, and as a result she abandons Aya to face her despair and loneliness alone.

In the meantime, she theoretically is hyping herself up to finally confess her love to Koto. But is she really? Both in the past and now, Erika is an expert in finding excuses not to be honest with Koto, her oldest friend. She can't be honest with Koto because Koto's still in love with Aya slash it would be unfair to Aya slash she would just be Aya's stand-in. Aya's back now, but she can't be honest with Koto because she has to wait for them to break up so Koto can move on. They broke up, but she still has to wait because Koto has to come to terms with the breakup. Koto is starting to come to terms with the breakup but she still has to wait because Koto's drunk. At this point her excuses become so obvious that even Erika recognizes they're excuses, but as we've continually seen with her, this intellectual realization doesn't change her behavior because she immediately comes up with a brand-new excuse: "If I can stand on stage with Aya and move past that." The truth, of course, is that Erika can't be honest with Koto because that would fundamentally change their relationship -- "There's no going back to the way I was, a childhood friend and a best friend" -- and she's terrified of that, the exact same way she was at 14, she's just using Aya as a prop to avoid having to face her own fear, just like she uses her self-loathing as a prop to avoid having to face her own guilt for what she did to Aya 7 years ago.

And no, that guilt is not "I am literally a witch who deliberately spirited Aya away mwahaha." I think that guilt is "I blew up at Aya for dating Koto and made a Tanabata wish for her to disappear, and then she did." As we've seen, Erika is an extremely emotional person whose conscious thoughts have a hard time influencing her emotional reactions and behavior. Even if she "knows," intellectually, her Tanabata wish couldn't possibly be connected to Aya's disappearance, she would still feel like it's connected, like it's her fault. But instead of facing up to this guilt she hides it, represses it. Then 7 years later, when she makes another Tanabata wish for Aya to come back and Aya indeed comes back -- which seems to actually confirm that her actions did indeed somehow at least partially cause Aya's disappearance in the first place -- she still runs away from it, refuses to face up to it, letting it fester and cause her to be emotionally distant from Aya and dishonest with Koto. Indeed, it is this inability of Erika to be honest, with Koto, Aya, and especially with herself, that is her fatal flaw. And as long as she's still in this "I have to beat Aya in order to move forward" mindset she will never get better.

last edited at Dec 29, 2024 8:55AM

Since this thread is clearly never going to stop being the Erika Argument thread, for better or worse, I'm going to try to get at the Erika Argument from a different direction.

I certainly agree their relationship is different, with Aya needing more material support than the other two (but Erika/Koto being much more in need of emotional support). That's true despite it being the same level of support Aya needed before. She nonetheless is solving these issues very quickly and not dependent on any one person, merely accepting assistance from various people who are also getting something out of it.

Eukene, just like Erika I know you mean well, but just like Erika you fundamentally misunderstand Aya. Aya needs at least as much emotional support as Erika and Koto do. Others in this thread have done a great job outlining how Aya's maturity and self-assurance is a facade. She is a broken girl with deep-set abandonment issues who (in the past) literally -- albeit semi-unconsciously -- tested Koto on whether or not she would continue to love her despite being rejected, and fell in love with her only because she became convinced that Koto will love her no matter what. She is a 14-year-old who was forced to mature way faster than she should have due to the failures of the adults in her life, but that doesn't mean she's actually mature, it means she pathologically hides her vulnerabilities and weaknesses because she fundamentally lacks faith that anyone could possibly love the real her.

I'm going into so much detail about this because Erika's fatal flaw isn't that she secretly wants her friends to break up, or that she (I think very obviously at this point) made a Tanabata wish 7 years ago for Aya to disappear. Those are both understandable. It's that, even now at age 21, she over-idealizes Aya to such an extent that she dehumanizes her. When Koto asked her out as high schoolers, Erika refused her because she didn't want to be Aya's stand-in. Despite her extra 7 years of experience on her, Aya acting together with her again has caused Erika's acting to regress. She made the wish to reverse Aya's disappearance not for Aya's sake, but for her own "Unless Aya comes back, I can't face Koto". I want to emphasize this: even as a 21-year-old, she's still competing with the ghost of a 14-year-old, she can't be honest with Koto about her decade-long crush because she's more concerned with beating Aya!

The Erika Defenders (tm) often say something like "Erika's thoughts may be selfish but her actions aren't." However, this isn't true, and again Eukene's post (sorry but it really is a perfect example of my point) shows us why. Despite realizing during the first day that Aya is not an untouchable existence, she's a young child, Erika -- like Eukene -- subconsciously sees her as needing essentially no emotional support or comfort. This is a girl who's been forced to skip 7 years of her life, who has no family left, who has to rebuild it starting from scratch. The closest thing she's had to family since her reappearance was Koto, and that relationship ended up turning abusive. Erika knows this, knows that Aya is an expert at hiding her pain, both in the past and now, but even though she is literally the only person left in Aya's life who can provide her meaningful emotional support, she refuses to. Why? Her guilt, of course. As I've argued before, Erika's self-hatred is actually making her a worse person in reality. She over-idealizes Aya so much that she feels herself unworthy of even being Aya's friend, and as a result she abandons Aya to face her despair and loneliness alone.

In the meantime, she theoretically is hyping herself up to finally confess her love to Koto. But is she really? Both in the past and now, Erika is an expert in finding excuses not to be honest with Koto, her oldest friend. She can't be honest with Koto because Koto's still in love with Aya slash it would be unfair to Aya slash she would just be Aya's stand-in. Aya's back now, but she can't be honest with Koto because she has to wait for them to break up so Koto can move on. They broke up, but she still has to wait because Koto has to come to terms with the breakup. Koto is starting to come to terms with the breakup but she still has to wait because Koto's drunk. At this point her excuses become so obvious that even Erika recognizes they're excuses, but as we've continually seen with her, this intellectual realization doesn't change her behavior because she immediately comes up with a brand-new excuse: "If I can stand on stage with Aya and move past that." The truth, of course, is that Erika can't be honest with Koto because that would fundamentally change their relationship -- "There's no going back to the way I was, a childhood friend and a best friend" -- and she's terrified of that, the exact same way she was at 14, she's just using Aya as a prop to avoid having to face her own fear, just like she uses her self-loathing as a prop to avoid having to face her own guilt for what she did to Aya 7 years ago.

And no, that guilt is not "I am literally a witch who deliberately spirited Aya away mwahaha." I think that guilt is "I blew up at Aya for dating Koto and made a Tanabata wish for her to disappear, and then she did." As we've seen, Erika is an extremely emotional person whose conscious thoughts have a hard time influencing her emotional reactions and behavior. Even if she "knows," intellectually, her Tanabata wish couldn't possibly be connected to Aya's disappearance, she would still feel like it's connected, like it's her fault. But instead of facing up to this guilt she hides it, represses it. Then 7 years later, when she makes another Tanabata wish for Aya to come back and Aya indeed comes back -- which seems to actually confirm that her actions did indeed somehow at least partially cause Aya's disappearance in the first place -- she still runs away from it, refuses to face up to it, letting it fester and cause her to be emotionally distant from Aya and dishonest with Koto. Indeed, it is this inability of Erika to be honest, with Koto, Aya, and especially with herself, that is her fatal flaw. And as long as she's still in this "I have to beat Aya in order to move forward" mindset she will never get better.

I don’t disagree with the main character-analysis points you make, but I don’t see the necessity, or even the utility, of putting those ideas in terms of “attacking or defending Erika” (or any of the other characters).

I once knew a therapist whose litany when people would voice their view of a situation, often in an aggrieved tone, would be to say, “Try that again without the judgement.” Readers here often seem to assume that it’s a given how someone should behave ethically in a situation where a close friend is spirited away in adolescence and then returns unchanged when the rest of their cohort has become adults. But, as I have been saying, one substantial point of the whole supernatural element here seems to be to put these characters into an ambiguous relation to one another that is both familiar and unprecedented. So much of this business about how the characters “should” feel or act seems to ignore the very founding premise of the story.

Neither Koto nor Erika are Aya’s parents or blood relations (as a legally 21-year-old person, she doesn’t even require an official guardian), but by default they’ve been thrown into a quasi-caretaker status with her that each of them are ill-equipped to fulfill, because the nature of the MCs’ past relationships makes it almost impossible for any of them to see the others in consistent terms—for instance, Aya is simultaneously both a traumatized “child” in need of special emotional care and the idealized/idolized love object/rival whose presence or absence has dominated Koto and Erika’s emotional lives.

I think it’s quite unfortunate that the discussion of this story (as so often happens in Dynasty forum threads) has revolved around painting one or another character as “the good or bad one.” Partly that seems to have happened because any attempts to understand a character has been derided, often in virulent terms, as readers “loving,” “or “excusing,” or “defending” that character. But I think what the author is doing here is far more interesting than any of that.

I think it’s quite unfortunate that the discussion of this story (as so often happens in Dynasty forum threads) has revolved around painting one or another character as “the good or bad one.” Partly that seems to have happened because any attempts to understand a character has been derided, often in virulent terms, as readers “loving,” “or “excusing,” or “defending” that character. But I think what the author is doing here is far more interesting than any of that.

Yes, perfectly put. Yours and part of Cogito's response summarizes my feelings about all this pretty well. I imagine we'll go back to the usual anyway, but I appreciate these posts.

last edited at Dec 29, 2024 12:40PM