I'm a character reader. My engagement with stories focuses on them, with little to no interest in the setting or the plot, beyond how those affect the inhabitants. I find great value in seeing how others react to characters, because it can tell you a lot about somebody. I don't make a final judgement on anyone just because they like or dislike a book, but discussing fiction is often considered safe and people can reveal things they wouldn't otherwise admit, or even think about - occasionally even doing so without realising it.

This manga is solidly good - how far beyond that it can go will depend on the ending; it's too early to say if it will become one of the greats. However, the spirited discussion it has generated is truly excellent.

How can it be crossing a line when there's no threatening or force.

When you get lines like this on a forum on an a well-written and interesting, but largely standard love triangle, you know something fun is going on. The best option here is that a person clearly passionate about their read of the story is using any argument they can think of, regardless of their convictions; this makes them not terribly persuasive, of course. Alternatively, we just found out something more profound than whatever opinions they have on manga, which is rather remarkable.

My true opinion of the story is effectively identical to Blastaar's, but to be more on topic, to play the devil's advocate, and to try to balance the forum's mood, I shall offer a very positive take on Erika.

In real life, we can only judge people by their actions; a principal feature of fiction is that we get direct insight into characters' thoughts and emotions. Asking to discard this information is foolish indeed; on the other hand, playing with the gap between the internal and external lives of their creations is an incredibly valuable tool for authors, and something to be mindful of as readers.

Allowing for the sake of argument that young Erika did do something terrible, she has clearly matured out of it. Adult Erika has done nothing but be an excellent, supportive friend to Aya and Koto, giving them reasonable, helpful advice and more tangible help. Insofar as adult Erika's actions go, she is beyond reproach.

Certainly, if the standard is "Aya and Koto are fated and it is the sworn responsibility of everybody else to ensure they are together", Erika falls short. Except even beyond the fact that this is a ridiculous bar to set, it is also in conflict with being a good person and a good friend. Once again allowing for the sake of the argument that Aya and Koto being a couple is the best possible outcome, the text is explicitly clear that they have issues to resolve before they can have a healthy relationship. Erika's advice, which may be somewhat opposed to them immediately getting together, is still very much the correct stance, both morally and as their friend. She is only ever pushing them towards resolving their problems.

Coming back from her actions to her thoughts, those show that she does have an ulterior motive. Specifically, she wants Koto, but she wants a Koto that has healed and moved past Aya. First, this is a very positive mindset. There are plenty of people that will not only not mind having a broken partner but will actively do the breaking. Erika doesn't settle, she accepts the need for growth on Koto's part, and that is very admirable. Second, if she wanted to sabotage the relationship, she could do a lot worse - or rather, she could start doing that at all. So far, her actions are in line with creating a future where Aya and Koto have a true, solid partnership.

Which brings us to my conclusion: Erika's dissonant, arguably negative thoughts not only don't make her a bad person, they make her more impressive; she is winning the hardest fight, the one against herself, in acting as she does. If Erika had no ulterior motive or personal investment in the situation, and was merely a benign, neutral third party, her support would be less impressive. Seeing how she feels is what proves that she is truly a good person.

Koto said Aya promised to take her with if she ever ran away from home,

You say Koto believed Aya had promised her they would run away together even though not being told of the place of "if not here, where is it？". And this whole scenario taken as wanting to run away from home is so ridiculous l can't even take it seriously.
We just put all of Aya's personality aside. Does Aya really have any motivation of running away？ What's the point when her grandpa was dying slowly and there's no domestic abuse involved.

The more reasonable interpretation of Aya looking somewhere is she's always wondering the place she truly belong. Aya thought she didn't really belong here since this is not the place where she grew up. Not until she accepted her grandparents as her new family and had Koto and Erika as her new best friends. But everything had changed again when her grandma dead. She saw her grandpa was slowly dying because of losing his wife, and he doesn't even try to live for his granddaughter. Not to mention Koto confessed to her nearly at same period. In a short period of time, Aya had lost most of her connections to this place. I think that's why she started to ask herself again "Do l really belong here？".

Erika's dissonant, arguably negative thoughts not only don't make her a bad person, they make her more impressive; she is winning the hardest fight, the one against herself, in acting as she does. If Erika had no ulterior motive or personal investment in the situation, and was merely a benign, neutral third party, her support would be less impressive. Seeing how she feels is what proves that she is truly a good person.

Yes, Erika definitely not a bad person. Like l had said before, she actually has the highest moral standard out of the trio. She is the typical type of model student who hates to break the rule and can't even take a joke. Unfortunately, l always don't have interest in serious type girl because they are easy to read most of the time.

Well, the only thing l think the adult Erika has done wrong is she doesn't tell Aya to reevaluate how she feels about present Koto when she came back or resumed dating Koto. Just let the poor girl being manipulated and waited until their relationship started to crumble.

last edited at Dec 24, 2024 8:09AM

Talking about chapter 13, l just found " …琴から連絡来てたんだ " should be Aya's talking.

Talking about chapter 13, l just found " …琴から連絡来てたんだ " should be Aya's talking.

How so? The next panel’s “Well, I guessed as much” definitely is Aya talking, and that pretty much has to be a reply to the text you quoted. And of course, we see Erika get a call from Koto.

Talking about chapter 13, l just found " …琴から連絡来てたんだ " should be Aya's talking.

How so? The next panel’s “Well, I guessed as much” definitely is Aya talking, and that pretty much has to be a reply to the text you quoted. And of course, we see Erika get a call from Koto.

I think translator can tell. It's really hard to explain something like this. Sometimes we can tell who's talking even though we don't get to see their face, just by the way they talk in Japanese.
In brief, if it was Erika's talking, it would be like
"…琴から連絡が来てたよ"
(Well, Erika's character won't be this gentle though. Just an easy example)

Edited："…琴から連絡来てたわよ" it's more like Erika's character

Can you tell the difference？

last edited at Dec 24, 2024 10:07AM

Talking about chapter 13, l just found " …琴から連絡来てたんだ " should be Aya's talking.

How so? The next panel’s “Well, I guessed as much” definitely is Aya talking, and that pretty much has to be a reply to the text you quoted. And of course, we see Erika get a call from Koto.

I think translator can tell. It's really hard to explain something like this. Sometimes we can tell who's talking even though we don't get to see their face, just by the way they talk in Japanese.
In brief, if it was Erika's talking, it would be like
"…琴から連絡が来てたよ"
(Well, Erika's character won't be this gentle though. Just an easy example)

I think I’m asking (and not at all in a dismissive way) what is the difference to the story that the change makes? And why would Aya then say, “Well, I guessed as much”? What did she “guess” if not that Erika got a call from Koto?

I’m interested in this story in large part because it has a great many subtleties, so I’m wondering what this one would be.

I think I’m asking (and not at all in a dismissive way)

Not saying you are.

what is the difference to the story that the change makes?

No change at all.

And why would Aya then say, “Well, I guessed as much”? What did she “guess” if not that Erika got a call from Koto?

………………

I’m interested in this story in large part because it has a great many subtleties, so I’m wondering what this one would be.

Then you must be disappointed.

Erika is already suck as hell considering she can't give her approval towards her two best friends relationship. Not only that, she went fighting Aya for daring to accept Koto's confession while she did nothing to tell Koto her feeling, showing she's biggest jerk as their friend. Ofc, there would be explanations from the author telling us Erika is a normal human being thus making mistakes lol. I think l will not be surprised. Just hope one day Koto and Aya can cut off this selfish snake.

This is all child Erika, which I avoided talking about. I think it's clear she was something of an ass as a child, but largely meant well. Whatever she did with Aya was different enough than her regular behavior that it's tormented her this long. Aya herself has commented on how different and how much more responsible Erika is as an adult.

I also don't think not giving your friends your blessing for their relationship when you like one of them is really that bad. Sure, the kindest person would want to give it if circumstances allowed (healthy relationship, not an adult dating a child, etc), but this is a really high standard. Many of us were not there as teenagers. Some of us harbor these kinds of thoughts as adults, but hopefully manage to keep it to ourselves and not act on it.

If you see not giving the blessing as an irredeemable sin then I think you need to say a lot more about what the basis of your morals are and how this goes in conflict with them in an unforgivable way. At least, if you want us to understand you need to do that, given that it's not at the level of something obvious like murder. I do get you have strong feelings. My own life experience thus far has not led to me having strong emotions about Erika.

I think I’m asking (and not at all in a dismissive way)

Not saying you are.

Oh, I know. It’s just that in English the phrases, “What difference does that make?” or “Why does that matter?” are very often used to imply, “That doesn’t make any difference,” or “That doesn’t matter,” and I wanted to be clear that I was asking the question, um, literally.

This is all child Erika, which I avoided talking about. I think it's clear she was something of an ass as a child, but largely meant well. Whatever she did with Aya was different enough than her regular behavior that it's tormented her this long. Aya herself has commented on how different and how much more responsible Erika is as an adult.

Oh. Has this different and much more responsible adult Erika ever think of apologizing to Aya of what she did to her seven years ago? We also can see Erika couldn't even hide her jealousy in chapter 13, towards a 14 yo kid, how an incredible mature woman she's become lol.

I also don't think not giving your friends your blessing for their relationship when you like one of them is really that bad. Sure, the kindest person would want to give it if circumstances allowed (healthy relationship, not an adult dating a child, etc), but this is a really high standard. Many of us were not there as teenagers. Some of us harbor these kinds of thoughts as adults, but hopefully manage to keep it to ourselves and not act on it.

See Fuyuki from There Is No Love Wishing Upon a Star, that's what you should do for your love one. You want them to be happy. Erika only wants her own happiness even as an adult.

If you see not giving the blessing as an irredeemable sin then I think you need to say a lot more about what the basis of your morals are and how this goes in conflict with them in an unforgivable way. At least, if you want us to understand you need to do that, given that it's not at the level of something obvious like murder. I do get you have strong feelings. My own life experience thus far has not led to me having strong emotions about Erika.

Erika is the murder despite not being her real intention. She led to Aya's disappearance which literally killed middle schooler Koto, the girl who had everything written on her face was also gone with Aya. Have you ever think how a lovely couple Koto and Aya would be if Aya didn't get spirited away? To think my girl do everything she can managed to date the girl of her dream (while Erika doing nothing but blaming Aya for stealing her Koto lol), then losing it out of nowhere all thanks to fucking Erika.

Talking about chapter 13, l just found " …琴から連絡来てたんだ " should be Aya's talking.

It's not that obvious to me.

琴 から: Indicates the source, meaning "from Koto"
連絡 (れんらく, renraku): Means "contact" or "communication" (e.g., a message, call, or email).
来てた: The past tense of "来る" (kuru, "to come"), indicating that the contact/message "came" or was received.
んだ : gives a nuance of explanation or realization.

We see the hands of Aya, but it could be Erika talking. It doesn't change the rest of the conversation, or the story, but apart the hands I don't see in the line itself who could be talking. I went with Erika because it seemed Aya was answering on the next panel. In any case, Erika provided the information that Koto called.

This is all child Erika, which I avoided talking about. I think it's clear she was something of an ass as a child, but largely meant well. Whatever she did with Aya was different enough than her regular behavior that it's tormented her this long. Aya herself has commented on how different and how much more responsible Erika is as an adult.

Oh. Has this different and much more responsible adult Erika ever think of apologizing to Aya of what she did to her seven years ago?

No idea, but considering Aya doesn't remember it doesn't seem clear what purpose the apology would serve. Something for us to watch in future chapters. We don't know what Erika would have said if Aya remembered, which Erika did check.

See Fuyuki from There Is No Love Wishing Upon a Star, that's what you should do for your love one. You want them to be happy. Erika only wants her own happiness even as an adult.

I haven't read that one, but I agree in principle that this is the best way to proceed. I also would like that, when insects bite me, I freely offer my de facto limitless supply of blood to these hungry beings. However, I must admit my actual internal response is often resentment. Other people would actually swat them (and sometimes me, if I am letting a mosquito bite me) and I don't hate these people. Working with these kinds of feelings is part of the human condition.

I don't agree Erika only wants her own happiness, though I think most people are primarily motivated by their own happiness. This is why eg empathy is a foundational part of the human social structure (unlike, say, baboons that do well with very little empathy for each other). One's own happiness gets linked to other's well being through the empathetic response, leading to pro social behavior. This is what seems to be going on with Erika to me. If she was unimpacted by Koto's suffering, she likely could have dated Koto for life.

In that sense, to me Erika is neither especially impressive or especially worth of criticism. She is someone very ordinary in an extraordinary situation who engages in a lot of self criticism as a result.

Erika is the murder despite not being her real intention. She led to Aya's disappearance which literally killed middle schooler Koto, the girl who had everything written on her face was also gone with Aya. Have you ever think how a lovely couple Koto and Aya would be if Aya didn't get spirited away? To think my girl do everything she can managed to date the girl of her dream (while Erika doing nothing but blaming Aya for stealing her Koto lol), then losing it out of nowhere all thanks to fucking Erika.

The fundamental issue here to me is that Erika would not have known any of this in advance. Let's say that, as a child, she had actually killed Koto (by which, I literally mean literally), but without knowing or intending that Koto would die. Then she felt tormented by guilt for an entire decade. That would seem like a tragedy, but I wouldn't view her the same as as an an adult committing first degree murder.

A lot of the rest of this is assumptions, eg we don't know the full reason for why Aya disappeared, how their relationship would have gone, etc. The important factor however is that neither did Erika, a child with a limited life experience who did not have all information in the comic.

last edited at Dec 24, 2024 12:50PM

Back then they had a talk about AyaKoto getting together (=the legendary Erika Aya talk before Aya went missing) and Erika confronted Aya about her rs with Koto because she saw them in the library, idk why some people questioning the talk's topic- https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/how_to_break_a_triangle_ch13#11 see? If they didn't have that conversation before, Erika wouldn't have reacted that way.

OT. Any news about the next ch? I know ch.17 is already out but ch18 didn't come out yet. Is it because of the holidays?

last edited at Dec 24, 2024 2:31PM

Back then they had a talk about AyaKoto getting together (=the legendary Erika Aya talk before Aya went missing) and Erika confronted Aya about their rs with Koto because she saw them in the library, idk why some people questioning the talk's topic- https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/how_to_break_a_triangle_ch13#11 see? If they didn't have that conversation before, Erika wouldn't have reacted that way.

I certainly have never doubted the talk’s topic—that’s always been pretty obvious from that sequence. But the talk’s import—who said what else to whom with what attitude, and what, if any, consequences the talk had—has still not been revealed. The “confrontation” that we know of is that Erika revealed that she was aware that Aya and Koto were in a relationship. Any “berating,” or “attacking,” or suchlike is all speculation—possible, but unproven one way or the other.

I continue to maintain that ambiguity is not the same as certainty, just as “literally” is not the same as “figuratively.”

last edited at Dec 24, 2024 3:07PM

Talking about chapter 13, l just found " …琴から連絡来てたんだ " should be Aya's talking.

It's not that obvious to me.

琴 から: Indicates the source, meaning "from Koto"
連絡 (れんらく, renraku): Means "contact" or "communication" (e.g., a message, call, or email).
来てた: The past tense of "来る" (kuru, "to come"), indicating that the contact/message "came" or was received.
んだ : gives a nuance of explanation or realization.

We see the hands of Aya, but it could be Erika talking. It doesn't change the rest of the conversation, or the story, but apart the hands I don't see in the line itself who could be talking. I went with Erika because it seemed Aya was answering on the next panel. In any case, Erika provided the information that Koto called.

It couldn't be.
The whole situation is like：
Erika provided the information that Koto called, which we don't see it directly in the manga.
Aya：…right, Koto had called you.
(…琴から連絡来てたんだ)
Aya：Well, there's no surprised.
(まあ、そうだよね)

I know it wouldn't chang any plot of story, but still. It should be Aya's talking. Unfortunately, l don't know how to explain it to you that it couldn't be Erika. Have you happened to have a Japanese friend to ask？

Talking about chapter 13, l just found " …琴から連絡来てたんだ " should be Aya's talking.

It's not that obvious to me.

琴 から: Indicates the source, meaning "from Koto"
連絡 (れんらく, renraku): Means "contact" or "communication" (e.g., a message, call, or email).
来てた: The past tense of "来る" (kuru, "to come"), indicating that the contact/message "came" or was received.
んだ : gives a nuance of explanation or realization.

We see the hands of Aya, but it could be Erika talking. It doesn't change the rest of the conversation, or the story, but apart the hands I don't see in the line itself who could be talking. I went with Erika because it seemed Aya was answering on the next panel. In any case, Erika provided the information that Koto called.

It couldn't be.
The whole situation is like：
Erika provided the information that Koto called, which we don't see it directly in the manga.
Aya：…right, Koto had called you.
(…琴から連絡来てたんだ)
Aya：Well, there's no surprised.
(まあ、そうだよね)

I know it wouldn't chang any plot of story, but still. It should be Aya's talking. Unfortunately, l don't know how to explain it to you that it couldn't be Erika. Have you happened to have a Japanese friend to ask？

You're talking to someone who's translated this manga and a ton of others lol. I'm not saying Kirin is perfect or anything but I'd imagine their Japanese is good enough that this "trust me bro I'm right" shit isn't gonna go well. What stuff have you translated?

You're talking to someone who's translated this manga and a ton of others lol. I'm not saying Kirin is perfect or anything but I'd imagine their Japanese is good enough that this "trust me bro I'm right" shit isn't gonna go well. What stuff have you translated?

So that's why l suggest him to ask a real Japanese. Just dont know where your hostility comes from.

How do you know that they haven't? Hell, he might even be Japanese for you know, a lot of translators are ESL and/or immigrants. You're making the assumption that your interpretation must be correct and anyone who doesn't see it must be ignorant or less knowledgeable than you, even though you can't even explain what your reasoning is. Instead of demanding other people do things you assume they haven't done, you should work on your ability to put into words your reasoning for how you're interpreting those words. Maybe a Japanese person could help you lol

last edited at Dec 25, 2024 1:44AM

How do you know that they haven't?

I can be sure.

Hell, he might even be Japanese for you know, a lot of translators are ESL and/or immigrants.

I can tell his native language is not Japanese at least.

You're making the assumption that your interpretation must be correct and anyone who doesn't see it must be ignorant or less knowledgeable than you, even though you can't even explain what your reasoning is. Instead of demanding other people do things you assume they haven't done, you should work on your ability to put into words your reasoning for how you're interpreting those words. Maybe a Japanese person could help you lol

Well, it's really hard to explain because it's more like a sense of language？

Again. Where exactly does that hostility come from？I'm curious.

I don't speak Japanese, but discussions on the subtleties of stories and the language used to communicate them are fun.

V1:
Erika: ...I got a call from Koto.
Aya: Well, I guessed as much. There's only so many places I can go.

V2:
Aya: ...right, you got a call from Koto. Well, that's not surprising. There's only so many places I can go.

In terms of structure and flow, V1 works better. Usually, when characters explaining things to each other is skipped, it is for the sake of pacing: to skip exposition the reader already knows. In V2, this doesn't apply, since Aya repeats what she just heard from Erika. This is even more relevant because for the audience, it's doubly unnecessary: we saw the call, and we could infer from context that in the brief timeskip, Erika had told her. What's the point then? We need something either way to give the second line "I guessed as much" have something to refer back to. Assuming the information value is identical, I find V1 superior. If the first sentence is only there to set up the reaction, giving it to Erika is smoother and more natural. However, this makes me think if we could find some difference in meaning?

In V1, Aya's reaction is immediate to Erika's reveal. This suggests that Aya is really unsurprised, and the idea that Koto would call is something she had considered before this moment. At a stretch, it could even be a little dismissive, perhaps?

In V2, if I'm going to read anything into it, repeating back the information implies processing. The reaction then turns into more of a conclusion. After taking a moment to consider it, she is still not surprised, but she did need that half a second to think about it.

That's about the only nuance I can try to dig out, and what it means for Aya's character or the story, I don't want to speculate on.

Hmm, I never pretended to be Japanese. But as far as I know, Genevieve isn't either.

Anyway, I didn't say they were wrong and "trust me I'm right". It's just that, out of any context, the line is naturally interpreted as "Koto contacted me" or 'I got a call from Koto". For it to be disambiguated, you can only rely on context clues, like the bubble pointing to Erika or Aya, but here, we can only see the hands of Aya. It's the only clue that indicates it could be Aya speaking. The まあ、そうだよね that follows is an expression of "I'm not surprised"; "I knew she would", "I guessed as much", etc... in a dialogue, it flows better as a reaction to another person's statement than your own.

Both interpretations are possible here.

V1 : "I got a call from Koto." (And I’m explaining it to you now)
V2 : "Oh, I see, you got a call from Koto" (You just provided me this information and I'm absorbing it)

Aya repeating the information as if it's a discovery and then saying that it's not a surprise feels a bit off to me. But I can't guarantee my intepretation is 100% accurate. And as said several times, it doesn't change anything.

Well, it's about time to tell whose Japanese is better LOL

Is there anyone who can speak Japanese providing their opinions?
Btw, l think @Genevieve is correct.

At this point, it's just nitpick. Even professional translators sometimes swap lines unwittingly and I'm no profesional. I'm not going to change the line or comment on it any further because it's irrelevant to the story.

@genevieve:
Some people really want to insist that translation is a science (while substituting the scientific method with "what I say goes") when it's an art lol. Interpreting is always necessary and if you want to be the person doing the interpretation, do the translation yourself. Call it a perk of the person who actually does the thing for us all instead of just being a heckler in the crowd lol.

Also I'm thinking something really mean right now but I'm not gonna say it :) acting Erika coded fr

last edited at Dec 25, 2024 8:28AM

To note：lt's never my intention to trigger any argument. I love Kirin-kun's translation and be very grateful for his hard works. He gives me a place to discuss my favorite yuri manga. In the start, l think it's just translator's misreading so l choose to say it. And yes, it wouldn't be a mistake serious enough to change the plot (maybe only the read of the character according to nestor). However, it's also not a bad thing for him learning to figure it out the difference.