Forum › Kimi to Tsuzuru Utakata discussion

Book%20and%20cloakhbq1
joined Aug 1, 2011

It's quite interesting how it was definitely bullying from how everyone saw it and how it affected everyone and especially Ruri, but Shizuku genuinely believed all the time she was doing something good, all out of misunderstanding comments made about her and taking pride in what she thought were her positive qualities.

Regardless of what Shizuku thought about it, she did bully Ruri. And it's a shame she ended up running away instead of apologizing and trying to make up for it. Honestly, it's hard to root for her when all she's doing is feeling sorry for herself. That's not very sympathetic.

She's not just feeling sorry for herself, she's been utterly broken by guilt, to the extent of shunning almost any human contact whatsoever and

That's what it means to feel sorry for oneself. She's self-absorbed. She's focusing on her guilt, her issues, and because of that she doesn't realize Ruri was the one who was suffering the most. Rather than looking inwards and feeling sorry for herself, she should try to do something for Ruri who was the real victim here.

Even now, she just wants to apologize just to feel better about herself, to feel less guilty. She shoud be wondering what happened to Ruri all those years instead. What if her shitty attitude ended traumatizing the poor girl? She doesn't even think about that.

This happened when she was in 5th grade, so when she was 10 or 11, and it's now 5 years later.

Yes, Ruri was the victim of the bullying and, ideally, Shizuku should have tried to do something to make up for it or make things right after it happened. However, realistically, 10/11 Shizuku did not have that level of emotional intelligence or people skills; if she did, none of this would have happened. She also wouldn't have really had a viable path to doing something to make up for her behavior; 10 year olds don't exactly have much in the way of resources or skills and, at that age, bullying Ruri for only a year would still equate to harming her over a full 10th of her life. That's not an easy thing to make up for and it's pretty easy to understand Shizuku running away and trying to avoid ever doing the same thing again.

As for the present, it's been half a lifetime for the both of them. Should she be wondering about how Ruri's life has gone since? Maybe, but that's enough time for them both to have completely changed, for their living conditions to have completely changed, and for the effects of the bullying to have been dwarfed by countless other events.

That last bit is actually a large part of Shizuku's problem: Because of her self imposed isolation and focus on her bullying, she doesn't have half a lifetime's worth of experience to dampen and give context to her memories. If the bullying damaged 1/10th of Ruri's life, it has consumed 1/3rd of Shizuku's. Ruri may have been traumatized, but we saw another student defending her at the end of that memory, so it's also possible she had the tools and resources to move past her trauma. Shizuku, on the other hand, was definitely traumatized and she hasn't been able to overcome it because the way she tried to make up for her behavior deprived her of any tools or resources that could have helped.

To be clear, that doesn't mean Ruri was somehow in the wrong or Shizuku is somehow absolved of her sins. She is the one who hurt Ruri, albeit out of ignorance rather than malice, and if she was traumatized by anything it was her own behavior. Thing is, that doesn't make her trauma any less real or meaningful.

Should she be concerned about Ruri's current life? In an ideal world, sure. But it's not going to be possible for her to meaningfully consider that until she no longer considers literally killing herself to be the best course of action. Focusing on how to move forward is the first step in that process. More holistic concerns like "has Ruri actually gotten over it" and "is there anything I can do to help her or make up for my earlier behavior" can come later.

Honestly, any legitimate attempt to show concern for Ruri or make it up to her would probably need to start with Shizuku writing an apology and seeking forgiveness even if she was in a better mental place. Again, it's been 5 years and that's half a 10 year old's lifetime. Any thoughts about Ruri's current state would be nothing more than fantasies designed to either assuage her ego or, more likely, castigate herself and justify even more self hatred.

1614377539256_copy_147x249
joined Aug 19, 2020

Asaka-san: Forgive your younger self, even if just a little.

Damn almost shed a tear there.

last edited at Mar 26, 2021 4:13AM

89922099_p0_3_32
joined Nov 15, 2017

It's quite interesting how it was definitely bullying from how everyone saw it and how it affected everyone and especially Ruri, but Shizuku genuinely believed all the time she was doing something good, all out of misunderstanding comments made about her and taking pride in what she thought were her positive qualities.

Regardless of what Shizuku thought about it, she did bully Ruri. And it's a shame she ended up running away instead of apologizing and trying to make up for it. Honestly, it's hard to root for her when all she's doing is feeling sorry for herself. That's not very sympathetic.

She's not just feeling sorry for herself, she's been utterly broken by guilt, to the extent of shunning almost any human contact whatsoever and

That's what it means to feel sorry for oneself. She's self-absorbed. She's focusing on her guilt, her issues, and because of that she doesn't realize Ruri was the one who was suffering the most. Rather than looking inwards and feeling sorry for herself, she should try to do something for Ruri who was the real victim here.

Even now, she just wants to apologize just to feel better about herself, to feel less guilty. She shoud be wondering what happened to Ruri all those years instead. What if her shitty attitude ended traumatizing the poor girl? She doesn't even think about that.

Google "feeling sorry for yourself," and the first result is a mental health hotline. Don't be the person that's trying to argue that someone who is torturing themselves to the point of suicidal thoughts should just "stop feeling sorry for themselves." As someone who has and continues to suffer from mental health issues, I find it to be a fucking vile and disgusting way to view the situation. It shows a genuine lack of empathy, and at the end of the day, no amount of "stop feeling sorry for yourself" is going to stop someone from ending their own life.

last edited at Mar 25, 2021 8:47PM

joined Oct 27, 2018

I've only read the first two chapters and so far my impression is that this seems like a bit of a manic pixie dream girl story.

Regerfgre2
joined Oct 1, 2014

i'm so scared of how this is going to end

Anna_av_pride_mask
BunnyScans
joined Jul 28, 2011

Google "feeling sorry for yourself," and the first result is a mental health hotline. Don't be the person that's trying to argue that someone who is torturing themselves to the point of suicidal thoughts should just "stop feeling sorry for themselves." As someone who has and continues to suffer from mental health issues, I find it to be a fucking vile and disgusting way to view the situation. It shows a genuine lack of empathy, and at the end of the day, no amount of "stop feeling sorry for yourself" is going to stop someone from ending their own life.

Thank you for putting this into words. I had spent a massive chunk of my life dealing with self-image issues that can be summed up as "feeling sorry for myself" and it's not really something I'd wish on anyone because it's extremely hard to leave, not that I actually succeeded.

joined Dec 30, 2018

man this resonates with me so much two of my traumas included me unknowingly bullying someone

Im not a native speaker so i dont know how to form a proper point but still so far this is great

the feeling of guilt is one of the most painfull ones especially when you know you did something bad and not just the anime guilt where protag is in the right and guilts themselves for nothing

so many feeling rn and i dont know how to say them honestly but so far thos is looking to be like my favourite manga ever

the author also knows how to write an anxious depressed person and it shows

the protag isnt anime kind of depressed where a person looks happy on outside but is dying on the inside instead protag has no friends and scared to make ones out of fear of hurting them

also the way author made her suicidal is great cos you can tell this person is unhappy and worried at first glance and not a cheerful person that suddenly out of nowhere ends their own life

again so many emotions that i cant express

makes me wonder if this is authors self insert or if autor knew that type of person cos everything about protag is on point

really hoping this wont be rushed or cancelled

joined Dec 30, 2018

Google "feeling sorry for yourself," and the first result is a mental health hotline. Don't be the person that's trying to argue that someone who is torturing themselves to the point of suicidal thoughts should just "stop feeling sorry for themselves." As someone who has and continues to suffer from mental health issues, I find it to be a fucking vile and disgusting way to view the situation. It shows a genuine lack of empathy, and at the end of the day, no amount of "stop feeling sorry for yourself" is going to stop someone from ending their own life.

Thank you for putting this into words. I had spent a massive chunk of my life dealing with self-image issues that can be summed up as "feeling sorry for myself" and it's not really something I'd wish on anyone because it's extremely hard to leave, not that I actually succeeded.

my parents say it all the time and no matter how many times i hear it it still hurts so much

the fact that i have both adhd and depression doesnt help either cos i have panic attacks and cant properly explain it to them why some things they say hurt me so damn much

wish all the people who hate living at that enviroment to escape and find people who understand cos world is full of great people and you dont have to hear that ignorant bs all the time

joined Dec 30, 2018

It's quite interesting how it was definitely bullying from how everyone saw it and how it affected everyone and especially Ruri, but Shizuku genuinely believed all the time she was doing something good, all out of misunderstanding comments made about her and taking pride in what she thought were her positive qualities.

Regardless of what Shizuku thought about it, she did bully Ruri. And it's a shame she ended up running away instead of apologizing and trying to make up for it. Honestly, it's hard to root for her when all she's doing is feeling sorry for herself. That's not very sympathetic.

She's not just feeling sorry for herself, she's been utterly broken by guilt, to the extent of shunning almost any human contact whatsoever and

That's what it means to feel sorry for oneself. She's self-absorbed. She's focusing on her guilt, her issues, and because of that she doesn't realize Ruri was the one who was suffering the most. Rather than looking inwards and feeling sorry for herself, she should try to do something for Ruri who was the real victim here.

Even now, she just wants to apologize just to feel better about herself, to feel less guilty. She shoud be wondering what happened to Ruri all those years instead. What if her shitty attitude ended traumatizing the poor girl? She doesn't even think about that.

thank god i havent met a person like you irl the shit you say is so fucking gross

you are the exact reason why schools need to teach about mental health so ignorant mentality like yours can die out

whenever i read these kinds of comments i immediately know that they werent written by someone whos ever had to deal with depression or suicidal thoughts

please educate yourself properly so you dont end up hurting people who are already vulnerable

Kanadechan%20sxdvfgbn
joined May 24, 2017

I know how she felt. I bullied someone in elementary school too, real bad, and I didn't think I did something awful. Years later, I finally realized that what I did is wrong but that person went to a different school but it's the same school as my sister. I want to apologize so much. One day, my uncle pick me up from school by car and then went to pick my sister at that school, then, I (still in the car) met that person again. Our eyes met, the guilt I felt is so strong, yet, I was unable to get out of the car and I lost my chance to apologize. Now I regret I let that chance go.
Thet person still hate me to this day.
So, I cheer for you! Write that letter! Don't be like me!

last edited at Mar 26, 2021 5:43AM

joined Mar 8, 2019

Emotions are one of those things that cannot be properly quantified. It all depends on the person. A traumatic event that happens to one person can linger for so long that even with proper coping mechanisms they still are unable to handle while another that goes through the same thing can walk away relatively unscathed.

I love how human and flawed the mains are. Shizuku was a misguided child who turned into an even more misguided and traumatized adolescent. Asaka is probably biting off more than she can chew - trying to stop someone from committing suicide while dealing with a hopefully not terminal illness.

Is Ruri Asaka? Or does Asaka know where Ruri is because they’re going to the same place to get treatment?

The double suicide though. Will they Romeo and Juliet this? Or is only Asaka that’s going to die and choosing to live to honor Asaka’s memory complete Shizuku’s arc?

last edited at Mar 26, 2021 4:37AM

Ykn1
joined Dec 20, 2018

Excellently put, Omega Deuse. This really helped me condense my opinion down into just one sentence:

She isn't feeling sorry for herself, she is punishing herself, which is pretty much the opposite of that.

Abbysmug
joined May 15, 2020

i'm so scared of how this is going to end

Saaaaame. I know it probably won't end happily, but I still can't stop myself from reading it

OrangePekoe Staff
Mai_screenshot_541
joined Mar 20, 2013

GreenTomato posted:

thank god i havent met a person like you irl the shit you say is so fucking gross

Hey, we all have our troubles, but don't say this. It's disrespectful, unnecessary, and also "gross." There were already good, substantive responses to that post.

joined Apr 29, 2018

well.... the first chapter already told us there won't be a happy ending but the story seems cool. i want to see what kind of bad events will happen on top of the already depressing events happening curently and make the story entirely pointless. who will this be this time? truck kun? illness chan? the morning glory they planted in the garden is a big hint. in flower langage it is a duality to love and mortality and for love in vain.

last edited at Mar 26, 2021 11:59AM

joined Jun 3, 2020

1- this girl is ruri
2- def good ending its just too corny

joined Mar 26, 2021

Why do i think that Asaka is Ruri. But still would like to know more about Asaka I think she has some kind of health problems

Ryuko
joined May 1, 2018

Damn. This made me uncomfortable and disgusted in myself just like Silent Voice. I also did something similar to Shizuku in middle school but not to that extent. I never got called out for my actions or solely blamed like Shizuku was so I just silently developed and got better with time but I never got to apologize to that guy or anything publicly.

The one thing that shocked me into realizing that what I was doing was wrong was that in middle school, we had a questionnaire that everyone had to do and my friend filled out saying that he was afraid to get physical injuries at school and of being harassed and that's when I realized that my roughhousing and teasing was probably much more serious and awful to him than I perceived.

RadiosAreObsolete
Img_20210321_022239%20(2)
joined Mar 6, 2021

Why do i think that Asaka is Ruri.

Asaka can't be Ruri. Unless she wears makeup to erase her freckles and draw beauty marks.

Kawaii-anime-25355452-560-420
joined Feb 24, 2015

Some drama and unexpected things... But! Good ending, will be too! I'm pretty sure. xD

Screenshot_2018-10-31%20dynasty%20reader%20%c2%bb%20fusoroi%20no%20renri%20ch13
joined Jul 1, 2014

I just came in here to say I only started (and am now caught up with) this today. The first several chapters had me really curious about where this all was going, totally hook line and sinker. Then when she confessed she was a bully, I thought, well, that's a weird thing to be so extremely guilty about, but okay, let's see where this goes.

And boy did it go somewhere. I found myself crying and grieving with her.

Fully disclosure: I was a bully back in elementary school (ages 6 to 9 for you non american folk) and there isn't a day that goes by that I don't regret doing what I did for all those years. Forgiving oneself is not an easy thing to do.

So yeah, her story really resonates with me, though her bullying was derived from ignorance while I was just a stupid little shit. But I do truly regret the things I did. I also stopped doing them after I moved on to middle school because of guilt. It didn't control my life to this extent, thankfully.

All in all, this story has really come together and the author has definitely set up a very emotional tale.

Felixwtf-min
joined Jun 4, 2018

Why do i think that Asaka is Ruri. But still would like to know more about Asaka I think she has some kind of health problems

She isn't Ruri. She is probably very likely connected to Ruri though. Ruri's whole issue was missing tons of class due to presumably health issues, and Asaka has demonstrated on a number of occasions now that she may not be the healthiest person, but hides it. It's definitely not being spelled out for us yet, but it's present. She has probably either come across Ruri through routine hospital visits, or god forbid something morbid like having known Ruri in the past, her being dead now, and Asaka's "you can still writer her a note" being akin to leaving a letter at the grave site. That would probably be a bit too dramatic though, but I can see it becoming the start to an ending where Asaka also dies and she keeps "writing" for her after letting go of her drama with Ruri.

...I always seem to dig deep into depressing endings.

That's what it means to feel sorry for oneself. She's self-absorbed. She's focusing on her guilt, her issues, and because of that she doesn't realize Ruri was the one who was suffering the most. Rather than looking inwards and feeling sorry for herself, she should try to do something for Ruri who was the real victim here.

Even now, she just wants to apologize just to feel better about herself, to feel less guilty. She shoud be wondering what happened to Ruri all those years instead. What if her shitty attitude ended traumatizing the poor girl? She doesn't even think about that.

This girl is literally just a teenager bombarded by emotions so strong that they're driving her to the literal point of suicide. If it were as easy as "stop feeling sorry for herself" I think we could cure all the world's mental health problems with just a few words from brilliant educated people like yourself. Your way of thinking about mental health is actually dangerous.

last edited at Mar 27, 2021 1:52AM

Altair Uploader
Reisen%20ds
joined Nov 30, 2016

the morning glory they planted in the garden is a big hint. in flower langage it is a duality to love and mortality and for love in vain.

Kase-san also opened with morning glories and went in a very positive direction. Hanakotoba says on its wiki entry that morning glories are more a symbol of an intentional, deliberate promise. I think the flower is meant to be hopeful here in defiance of Shizuka's disregard for the two months it will take to bloom.

That opening page of this series is something though. So the story is in the past and it seems like Shizuka is writing the love story novel?

last edited at Mar 27, 2021 2:51AM

Tumblr_inline_nhvrix3pa41suuiq8
joined Feb 16, 2018

but I can see it becoming the start to an ending where Asaka also dies and she keeps "writing" for her after letting go of her drama with Ruri.

It's dangerous to put things like this into the thoughtosphere

Woof
joined Feb 8, 2013

MCs relationship looks hella gay but way it sounds like it's not? =/

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