Forum › Can't Defy the Lonely Girl discussion

Snowfox
joined Jan 31, 2015

Blastaar said :

They're honest now that they're in a relationship. What would be accomplished by going back and "confessing" that they once had "ulterior motives"?

What's being rewarded is not the "messed up behavior" but the fact that they're confronting and dealing with their feelings as they developed.

I've been thinking for a while now that the Blackmail tag really only applies to the first couple volumes. Even if they're not "together" by the end of chapter 10, they've certainly moved beyond using each other dishonestly.

Soralaylaff
joined Oct 16, 2013

Blastaar said :

They're honest now that they're in a relationship. What would be accomplished by going back and "confessing" that they once had "ulterior motives"?

What's being rewarded is not the "messed up behavior" but the fact that they're confronting and dealing with their feelings as they developed.

I've been thinking for a while now that the Blackmail tag really only applies to the first couple volumes. Even if they're not "together" by the end of chapter 10, they've certainly moved beyond using each other dishonestly.

Ok see yeah I did completely forget about this scene since it was so long ago so thanks for reminding me.

I'll still respond to Blastaar's comment though even if it doesn't apply to this series anymore. I think it's healthy to have everything in the open and to be honest with each other about everything that's happened pre-relationship and after. It accomplishes trust and lets both parties know what they're getting into and what to expect from the person they are dating. Because I completely forgot Sora did already reveal she had ulterior motives, it felt off to me since I thought one side apologized and acknowledged their side of the problems, but the other didn't. So this whole time I thought one side was being unfairly rewarded.

Going back to reread that part in chapter 10, I think the reason why I forgot about this scene and why Ayaka's part stood out more in my subconsciousness was because Ayaka was really clear about how she worded her apology (plus most of the story is from her POV) versus Sora did acknowledge she wanted to be closer to Ayaka since middle school, but didn't outright say she had a crush. Then it all got overshadowed by the LETS BE FRIENDS!! ending lol.

last edited at Sep 23, 2022 3:28PM

Tron-legacy
joined Dec 11, 2017

SORA PLEASE SAY “MARRY ME” IN THE NEXT CHAPTER..

Guys. They're teenagers.

Tongtong.exe
joined Apr 27, 2021

SORA PLEASE SAY “MARRY ME” IN THE NEXT CHAPTER..

Guys. They're teenagers.

Realistically, it's probably going to be "Please move in with after we graduate", which is great because then they can finally reach the ultimate stage of lesbianism: roommates

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

I'll still respond to Blastaar's comment though even if it doesn't apply to this series anymore. I think it's healthy to have everything in the open and to be honest with each other about everything that's happened pre-relationship and after. It accomplishes trust and lets both parties know what they're getting into and what to expect from the person they are dating. Because I completely forgot Sora did already reveal she had ulterior motives, it felt off to me since I thought one side apologized and acknowledged their side of the problems, but the other didn't. So this whole time I thought one side was being unfairly rewarded.

I still think this is much ado about nothing, both in this series and in others. This shibboleth of relationships being tainted by “ulterior motives” seems to be based on a highly abstract notion of “healthiness”—so what exactly counts as an “ulterior” motive? People enter into relationships (not just romantic, but also friendships, acquaintances, etc.) for all sorts of motives, and those motives habitually change as the people get to know each other.

One of the commonest tropes in yuri manga is that two people initially get together for reasons that change substantially as their relationship develops. Sure, if Ayaka had continued to be with Sora only because she was being blackmailed, that would be a problem. But that’s not at all what happens here, and while that apology may make you feel better about the story’s “healthiness,” I don’t see how would it affect their ongoing relationship if the apology had never happened at all.

joined Jan 6, 2017

SORA PLEASE SAY “MARRY ME” IN THE NEXT CHAPTER..

Guys. They're teenagers.

Realistically, it's probably going to be "Please move in with after we graduate", which is great because then they can finally reach the ultimate stage of lesbianism: roommates

If roommate is the ultimate stage of lesbianism then what does it mean to be someone's legally binding roommate for life?

Gay%20panic
joined Sep 11, 2020

Honami and Chizuru: "Wait how are we the ONLY STRAIGHT GIRLS IN OUR FRIEND GROUP?"

joined Jun 21, 2021

Honami and Chizuru: "Wait how are we the ONLY STRAIGHT GIRLS IN OUR FRIEND GROUP?"

the eternal question for some characters in yuri manga lol

Screenshot%202024-01-18%20181127
joined Jun 21, 2021

Honami and Chizuru: "Wait how are we the ONLY STRAIGHT GIRLS IN OUR FRIEND GROUP?"

the eternal question for some characters in yuri manga lol

if the hets can have their quota gay friend in their het romances then by god we can have our quota hets in our yuri manga too xD

Soralaylaff
joined Oct 16, 2013

I'll still respond to Blastaar's comment though even if it doesn't apply to this series anymore. I think it's healthy to have everything in the open and to be honest with each other about everything that's happened pre-relationship and after. It accomplishes trust and lets both parties know what they're getting into and what to expect from the person they are dating. Because I completely forgot Sora did already reveal she had ulterior motives, it felt off to me since I thought one side apologized and acknowledged their side of the problems, but the other didn't. So this whole time I thought one side was being unfairly rewarded.

I still think this is much ado about nothing, both in this series and in others. This shibboleth of relationships being tainted by “ulterior motives” seems to be based on a highly abstract notion of “healthiness”—so what exactly counts as an “ulterior” motive? People enter into relationships (not just romantic, but also friendships, acquaintances, etc.) for all sorts of motives, and those motives habitually change as the people get to know each other.

One of the commonest tropes in yuri manga is that two people initially get together for reasons that change substantially as their relationship develops. Sure, if Ayaka had continued to be with Sora only because she was being blackmailed, that would be a problem. But that’s not at all what happens here, and while that apology may make you feel better about the story’s “healthiness,” I don’t see how would it affect their ongoing relationship if the apology had never happened at all.

Well I was talking about ulterior motives in relation to this story. Of course everyone has various degrees of "motives" for beginning any type of relationship, but in the case of THIS story, Sora's motive was to get UNCONSENSUAL physical and emotional attention from a crush Sora has been admiring for years from afar and said crush never even knew Sora existed until the blackmail situation.

I think that's a pretty huge fucking problem and red flag irl if it was never addressed and swept under the rug. I use "irl" because how their relationship has been handled is very realistic so it doesn't have the excuse of "it's just a manga"

Like without the apology or at least the other party finding out that "she used this fucked up situation to get closer to me", it just becomes another romanticized "I fell in love with my manipulator" type story. Because remember it wasn't just a simple "Hey I only pretended to need help with my studies as an excuse to spend time with you" type of motive, but straight up blackmail for physical/emotional "requests". Since everything after they had the talk was done so well and were correct ways of handling a relationship, missing this one thing was a glaring error in my brain. It felt they talked about and solved literally every problem except the biggest issue that began the series, that was then ignored and forgotten about. If written like this, it mixes in the message that Sora's behavior is ok since the relationship turned out fine in the end.

I had actually put "I personally prefer if everything was in the open and have everyone be honest with each other" in my previous post, but took out the "personally" because I thought this wasn't even an opinion, but a fact that open communication is great for a healthy relationship. Even if they are being open and honest about everything AFTER they get together, the pre-relationship is still a big part of a relationship and does affect things down the line since it directly involved both of them.

I think it's incorrect to say their relationship wouldnt change if Sora never apologized. For example if Sora never mentioned anything, but Ayaka found out eventually through other means, I think this would change the relationship dynamic. This is a major flaw that she discovered in the person she is dating. How she decides to then proceed with their relationship is up to her. Even if she just brushes it off like she did in the story, it at least gives her the power to decide what to do.

Would they still have the same ongoing relationship if Sora never revealed she had always wanted to be closer to Ayaka? Sure maybe, ignorance is bliss after all, but I wouldn't feel good about it as a reader who knows the whole story because Sora will just feel like a manipulator that got what she wanted and I'd have to deal with everyone praising that their relationship is cute and wholesome. (Which is how I felt and I guess is the whole reason I had that rant in the first place until I was reminded they already talked it out. Didn't realize this fact until I wrote out everything just now lol)

Anyway I should prob do a reread of this series now since I've been reading it wrong for the past 2 years

last edited at Sep 23, 2022 9:50PM

Ykn1
joined Dec 20, 2018

SORA PLEASE SAY “MARRY ME” IN THE NEXT CHAPTER..

Guys. They're teenagers.

I see no problem with that. Certainly would have done that if I'd had anyone like that at their age. And isn't that the natural conclusion to a relationship anyway?

Ezgif.com-gif-maker%20(1)
joined Jun 6, 2020

Yeah that's basically how Bloom Into You ended. Kinda. They were getting married basically outta HS. So wouldn't be shocked if its a proposal or something similar

Tron-legacy
joined Dec 11, 2017

SORA PLEASE SAY “MARRY ME” IN THE NEXT CHAPTER..

Guys. They're teenagers.

I see no problem with that. Certainly would have done that if I'd had anyone like that at their age. And isn't that the natural conclusion to a relationship anyway?

Marriage is a long term commitment that shouldn't be rushed into by still-forming brains.

I've never met a teenager that accurately assessed who and what they wanted to be 10 years later. Everybody is in a different place after college, or if they don't go to college, after hitting their mid 20s.

That doesn't mean a relationship can't last from high school, some do. But it's irresponsible to commit to such a relationship before you've actually figured out your trajectory in life.

In other words, odds are extremely good (literally almost doubled vs getting married later) that if you'd had anyone like that at their age, and you'd married them, you'd have an ex-spouse today.

Tron-legacy
joined Dec 11, 2017

Yeah that's basically how Bloom Into You ended. Kinda. They were getting married basically outta HS. So wouldn't be shocked if its a proposal or something similar

Not really. Bloom Into You ended with them non-married but in a long term relationship that took the step to them living together while they figure themselves out. That's literally what the data points to as the most successful strategy for not having a marriage end in divorce: Love and support each other while you learn who you want to be, then once you've got a stable trajectory for your life and you know it doesn't conflict with your partner's, take the next step and propose.

Teen marriages are twice as likely to divorce in the next 10 years compared to people who get married in their 20s.

I can't imagine the extra pressures of being LGBTQ+ help either.

joined Jan 6, 2017

Yeah that's basically how Bloom Into You ended. Kinda. They were getting married basically outta HS. So wouldn't be shocked if its a proposal or something similar

Not really. Bloom Into You ended with them non-married but in a long term relationship that took the step to them living together while they figure themselves out.

They're not even living together at the end. Nor are they even considering it yet, Yuu thinks it's too soon for that.
The closest to "married" they get is that they have pair rings.

2
joined Apr 14, 2022

okay but who cares whether it's an objectively good idea in the real world, i just wanna see my baby gays get married

Tron-legacy
joined Dec 11, 2017

okay but who cares whether it's an objectively good idea in the real world, i just wanna see my baby gays get married

See, THAT I have no argument against.

B1329fb9-3ffa-457d-8058-460ab52e0f00
joined Sep 29, 2022

got me smiling and giggling n shit bro

joined Sep 23, 2022

Amazing,love it so much,lovely story

Download20210305131100
joined Mar 10, 2020
Pocchi-avatar2
joined Jun 15, 2021

Well, that's all folks. To be honest I do sigh of relief. I have never read a Yuri that its plot is so slow..and boring. I don't even know what the mangaka is thinking other than the final panel (fin). Where is sora's mom, especially during the Hokkiado trip?

So it takes the second of the last chapters for these two to come out....while Wakana essentially outed herself and her gf.
I have high hopes for this manga, now it seems it is just a time waster with the plot going nowhere...

Nyaa
joined Aug 18, 2021

Yes, chapter 32 came out a few days ago and it's the final one.

Kind of ended out of nowhere IMO, but it was also going nowhere for a while now... The previous chapter (31) had the most excitement in ages (them telling their friends, though it felt a little rushed in that the whole scene only lasted a few pages).

But I really didn't like how Wakana and Yuina's relationship happened almost entirely off-screen even until the end, as that could've been a good source of exciting storytelling and the constant focus on "the future after school" in the last part was a bit of a boring plotline (as it kind of always is, cause there's nothing really to innovate on that).

At least it had a happy ending and it was very good manga until it started dragging near the end (and, again, it did the side couple dirty), so, overall, I'm satisfied!

8/10 for me.

2
joined Apr 14, 2022

I have high hopes for this manga, now it seems it is just a time waster with the plot going nowhere...

It's a romance story, that delivered on the romance. What exactly were you expecting, Sora and Ayaka to save the planet from an alien invasion? In a world full of yuri manga that actually end with the relationship going nowhere, levying this criticism at this one seems downright bizarre to me.

76047650-352-k633682
joined Jul 17, 2015

7/10

joined May 29, 2021

And it’s over, I could have done with a bit more from the secondary couple(s) or a seggs scene (even if it was only implied), but all in all I had fun. I actually enjoyed the fluffiness of the later chapters, personally, though it’s true the plot was kind of lacking in conflict for a long while now.

last edited at Oct 21, 2022 11:18PM

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