So I read this, and came here feeling pretty vindicated, since this pretty much disconfirms that every nasty thing people were saying about Igarashi and matches my charitable interpretation almost exactly...And here is almost everybody continuing to paint her in the worst possible light they can stretch their interpretations to fit.

I mean, this is pretty much exactly what I had suggested. She was dating the boyfriend because it's what you're supposed to do, she fell hard for Chidori, she got scared by the idea of being gay together, she regretted it and tried to seriously get together at valentines, was heartbroken when Chidori rejected her, came back hoping to win her back, is heartbroken again but left gracefully when she realized Chidori has someone new. No schemes, no trying to manipulate Chidori for her own ego, no plans to return to steal her away or attempts to manipulate her emotions or gaslight her or any of that. No intent to decieve, no keeping Chidori as a side piece to distract from her real relationship, none of it. All of the nasty negative interpretations were wrong.

This is literally the most positive possible version of all the scenarios that came out of all that discussion, and almost nobody is reconsidering their vitriol?

Yeah, she should've told Chidori she had a boyfriend. She could have tried being a little braver about her feelings. She was a bit insensitive to not realize how much she'd hurt Chidori. They're kids! Kids mess up!

Well fine, screw you guys. ;p I'm an Igarashi fan now. I'm digging trenches and setting up flamethrowers. Just remember YOU ALL DID THIS. ;p

last edited at Sep 28, 2019 1:11AM

I'm digging trenches and setting up flamethrowers.

May I recommend something along the lines of the Abwehrflammenwerfer 42? The bigger sorts get... inconvenient. :v

"...[Chidori's] heartfelt feelings..."

Yeah, the fact that Chidori returned her feelings sincerely is what scared her, because if it's just a one-sided girl crush and Chidori's just playing along for fun, that's one thing, but if they're sharing a mutual confession, that's scarier. She responded to it badly, not gonna argue against that, but I don't see why this line is so terrible.

"....just wanted to tease her, to have some fun....."

"...and show her my affection."

That's kind of an important part. She's talking about her return and her behavior with Nanoha. She came back to show that she has real feelings for Chidori and was hoping to reconcile.

"...to think she'd hate me that much..."

She doesn't know how much what she said shook Chidori or how much it stressed her out. Remember, she didn't see all the agonizing and worrying that the author showed us.

HEY, IGGY!!! SELF-REFLECTION IS NOT YOUR STRONGEST SUIT!!!
*curses under her breath*

Yeah, I know, I was advocating for Igarashi's POV or some sort of explanation from her side... I guess, "be careful what you wish for"? Or, is it "yay, we got official confirmation she's a self-centered closet-gay"? Or was this still too short and superficial to make proper judgement? ((That tear, tho... it has feelings...))

Do.NOT.fuck.with.Nanoha’s.Chidori.

And vice versa.

....Now I kinda hope Igarashi will return someday so Nanoha can resume from where Igarashi took the wind out of her sails and NanohaSmash™ her....

You mean the scene where Igarashi gracefully stepped down from the confrontation as soon as she realized Chidori had moved on, and even lied to try and cut off any further drama between the happy couple? ;p

Ah, being biased towards kyoot widdle Chidori, and with the last happy kiss-chapter, this chapter came too soon for me to be more open-minded for Igarashi's case...

That's okay, I'm here to fight on her behalf. ;p

*found on Igarashi's i-pod*

(Okay that's quality meme use tho)

Quick fact / chronology checking...

Igarashi had a "he tells me he loves me" boyfriend
then met Chidori and thought she's cute
Chidori liked her too

No. She only started dating the guy after she told Chidori she loved her. It was her way of putting distance between them. That's the meaning of the "I did nothing wrong" line.

I disagree on the same grounds Blastaar goes over. The first page is entirely about her feelings toward her boyfriend. She went out with him because they got along and she thought it was normal. She thought to herself that it's okay that she doesn't feel anything special towards him, it's fine going with the flow. This is framed as before she met Chidori.

((She still thought of Chidori as someone to tease (first), have fun and show affection to (second and third...), so... her definition of "not just as friends" relationship is still rather twisted. Maybe she never intented a loud and proud 2-girls-in-love relationship... but then, I wonder why she even threw the "ex-girlfriend" out there...))

Pretty much what was being said a few pages back. The ex-girlfriend line was probably 1 part poorly executed flirting, one part feeling out Nanoha's relationship with Chidori.

As the translator, I want to tell you that you really, really shouldn't read so much into the specific wording of a translation. Maybe some kind of genius could recreate the original with such fidelity as to justify that kind of word-by-word analysis, but I certainly can't, at least not consistently (by the way, in the original it goes "tease", "tease(affectionately)", then "have fun").

In any case, all three verbs here are kind of ambiguous. Just the "tease" could mean anything from playing a prank on someone to hitting on them. But that's not really important, because that line doesn't tell us Igarashi's true feelings. The context tells us what she really meant. Look at her reaction on the next page: she was seriously trying to ask Chidori out.

She met Chidori, developed a crush on her, told her she loved her, then started dating her childhood friend and ignoring Chidori out of fear when Chidori reciprocated her feelings. Chidori confronted her, and she responded with "But we're both girls". Months later, right before Igarashi graduated, she changed her mind/realized her mistake and sent Chidori chocolates to try to rekindle their relationship. Chidori rejected her. Now she came back to school to try a second time.

It's not explicitly stated, but I think we can assume that the boyfriend is out of the picture, and probably has been since before Valentine's Day. Otherwise, Igarashi wouldn't have been sitting around in a classroom waiting for her kouhai to respond, she'd be on a date.

I agree with most of this, except for the fact that I'm certain they were dating before she fell for Chidori. She just didn't mention him and he was never around because girl's school. I do think the boyfriend's absence is conspicuous, and from the way she's talking about him in this chapter, I would bet she broke up with him before the valentine's gambit.

Also, on the "not just friends" chocolate, keep in mind in Japan there is a tradition of giving chocolates to club members and friends. They call it "giri-choco" (giri=obligatory, in this context) This is contrasted by "Honmei-choco" (heartfelt) which is what you give a romantic interest. The note was to convey that no, this was not just a gesture as her club sempai, it was a real romantic gesture of reconciliation.

She wasn't serious. Having feelings for someone and thinking that she could act on it, but when the reality comes she goes "lol I was just messing with you" is different.

You've got the order of events backwards. She had feelings for her, got scared and ran away, and then steeled her will and came back with a serious attempt. There is nothing in the text or subtext that suggests she was anything other than resolved and serious from Valentine's on.

Nice work, Heavensrun—you’ve burnished every phrase and artfully lit every inference so they shine on Igarashi in the most flattering light possible, and beyond.

However, the stark cruelty of the phrase, “Nothing, of course,” and the gratuitous “ex-girlfriend” alleged joke will need further perfuming to fully eradicate the persistent scent of corruption.

I would also recommend some sleight of hand to convince the audience that the phrase “I made a mistake” actually is “I’m sorry I hurt you.”

But you’re utterly convincing that Igarashi is not simply evil, and that Chidori was merely collateral damage in her sempai’s personal little psychodrama.

She wasn't serious. Having feelings for someone and thinking that she could act on it, but when the reality comes she goes "lol I was just messing with you" is different.

You've got the order of events backwards. She had feelings for her, got scared and ran away, and then steeled her will and came back with a serious attempt. There is nothing in the text or subtext that suggests she was anything other than resolved and serious from Valentine's on.

I didn't say otherwise, my point is different than Igarashi having no feelings. I knew she had even before this chapter, the point is how she acts about them.
There is no proof that if Chidori reciprocated her feelings and they started dating, that she wouldn't revert to her old ways too. Well since this is a story I guess everything can solve itself easily. But realistically Igarashi is a bit of manipulative as a person, and that isn't related to her gay panic but it's a part of her character.

I'm pretty sure she will get her happy ending here though.

She wasn't serious. Having feelings for someone and thinking that she could act on it, but when the reality comes she goes "lol I was just messing with you" is different.

You've got the order of events backwards. She had feelings for her, got scared and ran away, and then steeled her will and came back with a serious attempt. There is nothing in the text or subtext that suggests she was anything other than resolved and serious from Valentine's on.

I didn't say otherwise, my point is different than Igarashi having no feelings. I knew she had even before this chapter, the point is how she acts about them.
There is no proof that if Chidori reciprocated her feelings and they started dating, that she wouldn't revert to her old ways too. Well since this is a story I guess everything can solve itself easily. But realistically Igarashi is a bit of manipulative as a person, and that isn't related to her gay panic but it's a part of her character.

I'm pretty sure she will get her happy ending here though.

What "old ways"? You mean where she was exceptionally touchy and affectionate? Because that's the only way they ever were before they "broke up". I don't see any evidence of her -being- manipulative, that's an assumption a bunch of people made when they thought she was a player. That was blown out of the water as soon as we got a confirmation from her internal monologue that she meant what she said. If you mean flirting with Chidori while not telling her she has a boyfriend that she doesn't really love, I don't think that qualifies as enough of a scheme to qualify as a character trait.

You could maybe argue that the ex-girlfriend line is a little sly, if it is indeed intended to draw out the nature of Nanoha's relationship with Chidori, but it could also just be a tone-deaf joke intended to tease Chidori. It seems pretty obvious to me that Igarashi doesn't get how much she hurt Chidori. if I was going to ascribe character flaw to her, I'd say insensitivity is more on-point than manipulativeness. (If she is manipulative, she's really bad at it.)

Nice work, Heavensrun—you’ve burnished every phrase and artfully lit every inference so they shine on Igarashi in the most flattering light possible, and beyond.

However, the stark cruelty of the phrase, “Nothing, of course,” and the gratuitous “ex-girlfriend” alleged joke will need further perfuming to fully eradicate the persistent scent of corruption.

I would also recommend some sleight of hand to convince the audience that the phrase “I made a mistake” actually is “I’m sorry I hurt you.”

But you’re utterly convincing that Igarashi is not simply evil, and that Chidori was merely collateral damage in her sempai’s personal little psychodrama.

It helps if you imagine "Nothing, of course" as being spoken with a sort of broken hopelessness rather than a casual dismissiveness. I think the ex-girlfriend comment was a tone-deaf flirt because she doesn't realize how much she hurt Chidori. That also helps with the thing you mentioned after that!

But being serious for a moment, I'm not suggesting for a second that Igarashi wasn't dumb and hurtful. She's definitely on the insensitive side, and her careless words seriously hurt Chidori. She doesn't seem to realize how much she hurt her, either. While I think both her attempts to get back together were sincere, I don't think she really appreciates how much she hurt Chidori in the first place.

But that's what makes me like her as a tragic character. She made a mistake for kinda sympathetic reasons, hurt someone she honestly adored, and is heartbroken that she destroyed her relationship with her first actual love. (I'm pretty sure nothing from that paragraph is spin, either, that's objectively what the text tells us.) And...I just really feel like if this story had been framed differently, people would have a totally different read on her.

Imagine this entire manga reframed from her perspective: (forewarning, this part is DEFINITELY spin. I make no apologies. ;p )

(Also, my first take of this I got carried away on, and it basically turned into a lengthy outline for an Igarashi fanfic. When I realized it was huge, I decided that would be pretty obnoxious, so here is a more concise summary while the longer version goes into a text file on my computer that I'll probably never open again. Fkin ADHD.)

Igarashi is the protagonist of a manga. She has a boyfriend that she's dating because they were friends and everybody seemed to expect them to get together. She meets a new Kouhai and falls for her pretty hard. They flirt for awhile, she neglects her boyfriend because she's super into this girl. She confesses, the girl likes her back.

Boyfriend shows up at school, so she leaves to pull him away before Chidori sees. (but she does) She breaks up with the boyfriend and tells him the truth about Chidori. He gets pissed off and says some nasty stuff about girls not being able to date girls and stuff. It's really traumatic for her because he's one of her oldest friends. Next day the breakup with Chidori happens. Igarashi echoes something Boyfriend-kun said in his fit (about two girls not being able to have anything between them) And Chidori bolts. Igarashi sobs quietly after she leaves.

Next is an arc where Igarashi is...not exactly following Chidori, but watching from afar whenever she gets a chance. Chidori's dealing, moving on, being happy with her friends, cutting her hair. A rival appears, but Igarashi isn't aware of it. Eventually, because their families are close, Igarashi and Boyfriend-kun end up stuck together at a social gathering, and he apologizes. He says he lashed out because he was hurt and he wants to go back to being friends and it's okay if she has a girlfriend and he was undeniably wrong. This little bit of acceptance gives her the courage to try again, so, since valentines is coming up, she pours herself into making chocolate, intend on winning her girl back and being with her. But Chidori is getting awful close to this new girl that got introduced pretty soon after the breakup.

So like, I'm not saying that's how it went, but it's a way that it could have gone, it doesn't contradict anything, and can any of you guys honestly say that if the story was framed like that the fans wouldn't be rooting for Igarashi to win Chidori back and be telling this Nanoha bitch to piss off and get away from bae? ;p

(Yes, that really was the concise version)

I know it would also totally be possible, also without contradictions, to write another version of this that makes her out to be a pretty self-centered brat (though nothing near the malicious player some people assumed she was at first) But that's my point. I can't see the reason in summoning so much vitriol towards something so uncertain.

last edited at Sep 28, 2019 4:41AM

I don’t really disagree with anything you say, and as usual your argument is thoughtful and well-supported.

I just don’t give a shit. Yes, if this story were framed differently, it would be different. But I’m reading this story, where Chidori is our precious cupcake, and Igarashi is the thoughtless, self-centered bitch who casually hurt her, then had the gall to assume that her cute, short, round but evidently unable-to-be-fully-conceptualized-as-a-real-human-being kouhai could never reject her own wonderful sempaian self twice.

So kudos to your powers of empathy and imagination. Just don’t come around Nanoha with that bullshit, or there’ll be trouble.

Sorry but we're going on cycles here, so I'm not going to respond to the essays. We have different opinions and better respect that you can't just convince someone to feel the same way like you do for a character. Sometimes the interpretation just depends on the individual and there's not a universal objective answer.

@Heavensrun
I do see your points, with my head a bit more cooled off. And you're right. They are kids. And make mistakes.

But what still has me on the wrong foot with her is the context (in the available text); she achknowledges Chidori's honest feelings (in the past) but it's all about her own. Without reckognizing how pushing Chidori away hurt the other kid.
She's hurt now, but there's hardly any proof that she learned from her mistakes.

Just before stepping out, the scene in which she met Nanoha, she - for no apparent reason - stepped in and proclaimed the "ex-girlfriend" bit.

I mean, we've talked about this when it happened, but:
a) if she magically recognized Nanoha as a rival - that's not a smooth move, she would have no knowledge what Chidori felt.
b) if she just made a joke (as she claims) - for someone being so worried about stepping outside the norm herself, that is a rather twisted joke to make about someone else (esp. if she wants Chidori on her good side).
c) she was trying to feel out if Nanoha (unless your FF happens, where she watched over Chidori before and after the chocolate, I still go with "magically") was in any way close to Chidori - see b). Even if she herself had moved past that, she wouldn't know if Chidori liked to be dragged out of the closet, so... yeah, d*ckmove.

You mean the scene where Igarashi gracefully stepped down from the confrontation as soon as she realized Chidori had moved on, and even lied to try and cut off any further drama between the happy couple?

If by gracefully you mean, saving her own face, yeah she did that (as you suggested, that scene can be read either way).
And amazingly she left without a further fight or challenge. But as said before and for those reasons, as of now, I doubt she did so for Chidori's sake.
Even with the translation in the last chapter meaning something more affectionate, even if she really tried to become more empathic towards Chidori - the ex-girlfriend-scene doesn't help her case. Even if she apologized for that.. (but it may at least be a step in the right direction...)

One can be in a "comforting" relationship and then develop deeper feelings for someone else. One can slip up and confess their feelings to them. One can get scared and pull back, trying to hit the breaks. That's all a big mess, but yeah, it happens and is even understandable.
She broke Chidori's heart over that.
She tried to get back with her and got blown off. (Chocolates)
She tried once more (telling Chidori it was her mistake in the literature room) and Chidori didn't respond.
And then found out it was all in vain and way too late.

That's all sad and understandable (not excusable, but I get it).

What bugs me is that she cannot understand that she hurt Chidori first, badly.
That from Chidori's POV, the girl she liked had a boyfriend despite telling her sweet things.
That the girl harshfully shot her down and crushed her heart (with the old "but we're both girls" trope XD).
That months passed between Igarashi's attempts and she couldn't fathom that Chidori didn't want to get/feel hurt anymore and moved on.
That Igarashi when she returned, she first thought of "you rejected me" before being reminded by Chidori that she did it first.

There's not one frame in the text that shows Igarashi undoubtfully sad about making Chidori sad. (I can give "ambiguous" to some frames, but that's it. The last chapter could have been a perfect spot for that, but all there was was ...well, self-pity...)

"I just wanted..." doesn't cut it. Unless that was followed by an explicit "...make it up to her."
(no matter how open-minded I read the translation for that bubble, I cannot find selfless Chidori-love in there)

...

I can see the narrative you portray. Or at least, Igarashi having broken up with her dude in the intermediate months before the chocolate. Trying to get with Chidori on an honest and more ...intimate and 2-girls relationship.
As I said before, yeah, I can see Igarashi in her own mind thinking that her love was a good one and worth pursuing.
But... yeah... sorry, the ex-gf bit and other items on the list kinda work against her truely thinking about Chidori's feelings. And that should come first whenever one claims to care for another.

Even in your FF I'd ask "but wait, isn't Chidori maybe happier now?"
(I'd still read it. But I am not one to accept everything a protagonist does. Even heroes make mistakes and it would be bad form to not recognize those mistakes or to not have them have consequences. In that regard, maybe Chidori should have let Igarashi talk and whilst her cold attitude was understandable - especially with Igarashi's attitude was so non-cholant und unreflective - she could have asked her "why?" and let Igarashi answer properly... But wait-- Chidori did that! And Igarashi responded with chuckles and claims of jokes and further lack of understanding why Chidori was angry/mad at her ...yeah..)

I respect your liking for Igarashi. You do you :P So defend her to your heart's content.
But to me... up to this point there's nothing suggesting Igarashi wasn't self-centered or really cared for Chidori and her feelings.

... convince ... [cutting out the sass a bit] ... that the phrase “I made a mistake” actually is “I’m sorry I hurt you.”

Tl;dr: ^ That ^

last edited at Sep 28, 2019 7:20AM

I don’t really disagree with anything you say, and as usual your argument is thoughtful and well-supported.

I just don’t give a shit. Yes, if this story were framed differently, it would be different. But I’m reading this story, where Chidori is our precious cupcake, and Igarashi is the thoughtless, self-centered bitch who casually hurt her, then had the gall to assume that her cute, short, round but evidently unable-to-be-fully-conceptualized-as-a-real-human-being kouhai could never reject her own wonderful sempaian self twice.

So kudos to your powers of empathy and imagination. Just don’t come around Nanoha with that bullshit, or there’ll be trouble.

May I just observe this isn't the first time in this topic where you're sounding downright dogmatic...?

I don’t really disagree with anything you say, and as usual your argument is thoughtful and well-supported.

I just don’t give a shit. Yes, if this story were framed differently, it would be different. But I’m reading this story, where Chidori is our precious cupcake, and Igarashi is the thoughtless, self-centered bitch who casually hurt her, then had the gall to assume that her cute, short, round but evidently unable-to-be-fully-conceptualized-as-a-real-human-being kouhai could never reject her own wonderful sempaian self twice.

So kudos to your powers of empathy and imagination. Just don’t come around Nanoha with that bullshit, or there’ll be trouble.

May I just observe this isn't the first time in this topic where you're sounding downright dogmatic...?

I'm not sure what that observation is supposed to signify. Certainly there are alternate ways of reading any given character--we have seen a number of them in this thread.

As I have pointed out several times, any text sets up its own internal value system, one that may be related to but is not necessarily identical to that (those) of real life. My argument has been that, granting certain, mostly equivocal or ambiguous, elements of the text that allow for a degree of sympathy for Igarashi and her motivations, the text itself presents her as a person who is doing the wrong thing.

As is not surprising in this forum, she has received an outpouring of fellow feeling from some readers as a young person confused about her sexuality, which she certainly seems to be. As Heavensrun has demonstrated, it's quite possible to imagine another text, one in which Igarashi would be positioned as a highly sympathetic central character, even a hypothetical text where Igarashi not only suffers but actually learns from her own suffering and reflects on the suffering that she has caused.

My position, dogmatic though it may be, has been that the latter text is not the text that actually exists.

last edited at Sep 29, 2019 2:23PM

Well was referring more to this part:

I just don’t give a shit. -- But I’m reading this story, where Chidori is our precious cupcake, and Igarashi is the thoughtless, self-centered bitch who casually hurt her,

...because you've voiced that kind of thing often enough in different contexts that I'm having some trouble taking it as ironic. Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you a while (ie. several chapters and pages) ago mention something about identifying with the scenario?

Well was referring more to this part:

I just don’t give a shit. -- But I’m reading this story, where Chidori is our precious cupcake, and Igarashi is the thoughtless, self-centered bitch who casually hurt her,

...because you've voiced that kind of thing often enough in different contexts that I'm having some trouble taking it as ironic. Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you a while (ie. several chapters and pages) ago mention something about identifying with the scenario?

It’s true that it’s sometimes easy to slip into talking as if referring to real existing people, and I think that many (apparent) disagreements in these forums arise because much of the discourse, sometimes my own, veers back and forth between two different ways of perceiving the characters:

• As if they are (hypothetical) human beings with an (imagined) existence outside the text. (This is where I see most of the highly pro-Igarashi discourse oriented.)

• As signifiers within the text itself whose significance is primarily in relation to other elements of the storyworld. (That’s where my facetious characterization above comes in—slightly exaggerated, it’s what I see as the primary internal POV of the series.)

Again, there’s no doubt that my buy-in to the prevailing ethos of the series makes me resist the “Igarashi-senpai, Lost Lesbian Duckling” reading of that character.

[I’m not sure when or if I “identified” with the scenario, and I don’t have time to check back right now—I have bread I need to get into the oven.]

This is such a nice series.

• As if they are (hypothetical) human beings with an (imagined) existence outside the text. (This is where I see most of the highly pro-Igarashi discourse oriented.)

Well my stance is that if the author has gone to the trouble of writing a psychologically plausible character you could without excessive difficulties take for a real person then it's only good manners to also treat them as such. Would be rude to not take the effort invested with due gravitas.

• As signifiers within the text itself whose significance is primarily in relation to other elements of the storyworld. (That’s where my facetious characterization above comes in—slightly exaggerated, it’s what I see as the primary internal POV of the series.)

Note that she already had meaningful narrative significance as Chidori's original Closet Key - Nanoha's confession probably wouldn't have been processed and accepted nearly so smoothly and swiftly if Chidori hadn't already come to terms with being lesbian earlier with Igarashi (heartbreaks nonwithstanding). and then we'd have had to deal with the usual loves me loves not uncertainty period

Again, there’s no doubt that my buy-in to the prevailing ethos of the series makes me resist the “Igarashi-senpai, Lost Lesbian Duckling” reading of that character.

To be frank this sounds at best like the sort of "genre puritanism" - "oh noes actual drama in my fluff, vade retro satanas" - I've denounced before in other contexts; at worst it sounds like a form of warped "purity obsession", nothing negative is allowed into intrude into my fluffy candyland story kind of thing...

Also that easy assumption you're making about "the prevailing ethos of the series" could be debated, as could whether it's even relevant to the topic in the first place.

Personally I find Iggy to be, besides an interestingly conflicted character, straight up narratively useful - she more or less accidentally shakes up the status quo and gives cause for the main pair to engage in some serious thinking (as well as an excuse reveal more of their backstory to the audience), and serves as a healthy reminder that people are fallible beings who can irrepairably fuck up their relationships with wrong choices born out of unresolved anxieties. (Also that trying to have your cake and eat it too rarely works out.)
I believe the technical literary term for the role she plays here is "foil".

[I’m not sure when or if I “identified” with the scenario, and I don’t have time to check back right now—I have bread I need to get into the oven.]

TBH I asked because I, too, had other things to do and it was worth a shot to see if you'd remember and I could skip the backlog trawling. ._.

last edited at Sep 28, 2019 12:16PM

random posted:

Personally I find Iggy to be, besides an interestingly conflicted character, straight up narratively useful - she more or less accidentally shakes up the status quo and gives cause for the main pair to engage in some serious thinking (as well as an excuse reveal more of their backstory to the audience), and serves as a healthy reminder that people are fallible beings who can irrepairably fuck up their relationships with wrong choices born out of unresolved anxieties. (Also that trying to have your cake and eat it too rarely works out.)
I believe the technical literary term for the role she plays here is "foil".

I agree wholeheartedly with this paragraph. Even if you can't empathize with the character, her presence and mindset are crafted in a way that makes sense in the scope of the story.

She's part of Chidori and Nanoha's story and history and played a role in their relationship, while being an interesting character.

I don't think we will see more of her at this point (her arc ended), but in my head-canon, she will later find her way and realize how wrong she was. And maybe find her own happiness.

I don't think we will see more of her at this point (her arc ended), but in my head-canon, she will later find her way and realize how wrong she was. And maybe find her own happiness.

I'm willing to bet against that. IMO, that tear spoke of things being unresolved for Iggy. So... I predict she'll return... someday.

Random, our conversation has near run its course, because I don’t disagree with anything you say about Igarashi’s function in the narrative—she’s been absolutely crucial in tipping the story from the fluffy SOL mode over toward something like progress.

What I have been objecting to is the inclination of a number of readers to rehabilitate the obvious antagonist of the series, a character whose behavior and values are overtly antithetical to those of the MCs, into a misunderstood victim.

Igarashi’s cavalier attitude toward the emotional pain she has caused and her single-minded focus on her own feelings rather than on Chidori’s can’t be simply handwaved away. As one poster put it, her behavior in the story is explained but not, as a number of readers would have it, excused, and she leaves the scene sadder but by all evidence no wiser than when she re-appeared.

To be frank this sounds at best like the sort of "genre puritanism" - "oh noes actual drama in my fluff, vade retro satanas" - I've denounced before in other contexts; at worst it sounds like a form of warped "purity obsession", nothing negative is allowed into intrude into my fluffy candyland story kind of thing...

This, however, I will deny unto my dying breath. I’m not saying the character shouldn’t be in the story; quite the contrary—she adds depth that was previously absent (although the series would have still been incredibly pleasant had it remained in its completely fluffy mode). Igarashi isn’t a heavy villain, because this isn’t a heavy story—she’s exactly the right kind of villain for Hana ni Arashi.

It would have been trivially easy for the author to have made Igarashi overtly sympathetic, but, most obviously, the author conspicuously avoids having Igarashi make a sincere apology in a situation that calls for exactly that; the irony is that so many readers seem so eager to make those apologies for her.

She wasn't serious. Having feelings for someone and thinking that she could act on it, but when the reality comes she goes "lol I was just messing with you" is different.

You've got the order of events backwards. She had feelings for her, got scared and ran away, and then steeled her will and came back with a serious attempt. There is nothing in the text or subtext that suggests she was anything other than resolved and serious from Valentine's on.

I didn't understand Igarashi until this latest chapter but, based on "her side of the story," I agree with your characterization of the events and Igarashi's feelings. All along, Kovachi-senpai has been telling a story about two girls learning what it means to love someone who must do so IN SECRET, because of the unknown and feared "corrective" responses from friends and family of the social norm that two girls should not love each other. Igarashi's behavior is just another manifestation of the effect of fear of severe enforcement of social norms. I feel bad for Chidori for the pain she experienced, but also feel bad that Igarashi could not overcome her fear of social stigma before she hurt Chidori and herself.

Chidori can be delicate, but she has the strength to be true to herself despite social norms and had the courage to confess to Igarashi on the basis of Igarashi's sincere expressions of affection for her. Igarashi had not processed her own feelings or anticipated Chidori's response, and was not ready to reciprocate. While Igarashi's parroting of the usual social rule did not prevent Chidori from beginning a relationship with Nanoha, it made it harder for Chidori to fully express her love to Nanoha. I love how Kovachi-senpai used the tiptoe kiss from the curb to show how Nanoha freed Chidori from her doubts by coming to her rescue and stating plainly that she and Chidori were together.

One thing I really like about Hana Ni Arashi is that the characters are not wise beyond their years, but are just awkward kids trying to figure things out. Despite her cool exterior, Igarashi remains an awkward kid, trying to understand herself and the people around her. She hurt Chidori, but it wasn't her intention cause pain. She is not a villain, just an imperfect person who messed up and (thankfully) moved on so that Chidori could meet her perfect match.

I didn't understand Igarashi until this latest chapter but, based on "her side of the story," I agree with your characterization of the events and Igarashi's feelings. All along, Kovachi-senpai has been telling a story about two girls learning what it means to love someone who must do so IN SECRET, because of the unknown and feared "corrective" responses from friends and family of the social norm that two girls should not love each other. Igarashi's behavior is just another manifestation of the effect of fear of severe enforcement of social norms. I feel bad for Chidori for the pain she experienced, but also feel bad that Igarashi could not overcome her fear of social stigma before she hurt Chidori and herself.

While I agree with you in general, I think you're overestimating the impact of social norms on Chidori and Nanoha. Two other girls at their school are publicly dating, and no one seems bothered by it. Fear of judgement might be part of why they're keeping things secret, but it seems like the main reason is just regular old shyness. Igarashi, on the other hand, clearly felt some intense pressure to conform to what she sees as normal.

All along, Kovachi-senpai has been telling a story about two girls learning what it means to love someone who must do so IN SECRET, because of the unknown and feared "corrective" responses from friends and family of the social norm that two girls should not love each other. Igarashi's behavior is just another manifestation of the effect of fear of severe enforcement of social norms.

Let's not forget Kovachi also tells a story in which those fears are not necessarily always to come true; in NanoChidori's case namely their friends (albeit unbeknownst to N&C, yet) being actually rather open-minded and Nanoha's imotou immediately knowing the Chidori her nee-san keeps talking about is her date without issue, to the point of protecting them / their secret for their sake...

Just wanted to leave that out there for completeness sake...
(I've already written several essays here about my stance on Igarashi, her mistakes and her take-away from them / lack of a proper learning-curve esp. in regards to her own empathy, so I'll leave it at that.)

last edited at Sep 29, 2019 6:12AM

Well, the fact it's a "secret from everyone" can mean two things:

• It would be labeled as "disgusting" by a sizable amount of persons, because reasons. And they would be harassed/isolated. And they don't want that.
• They would be teased a lot, as would probably be any couple, even a straight one, because that's what teens do. And they don't want that.

Or a mix of both.

The first one is illustrated by Igarashi.

The second one is illustrated by their friends