(As an aside: I find it interesting how much discussion and interpretation Igarashi's character caused. I wonder if we had only half as much to say and analyse about our protagonists' characters...)

As should be obvious, I agree with the gist of your entire post.

Much of the uncertainty about Igarashi as a character stems from the contrast between her treatment and that of pretty much everything else in the series—while there may arguably be some unanswered questions about the MCs (like why Chidori is (or maybe “was”—we shall see) so determined to keep their relationship secret, or why Nanoha is less so), but for the most part, there’s not much real ambiguity about any of the characters or situations—that’s part of the story’s charm, IMO.

My position has mainly been based not on the qualities of Igarashi imagined as a real human being but on the overall narrative ethos of the series, which (to me) hasn’t been sending many signals where it’s the kind of story where a character like Igarashi would be significant except as a mechanism to affect the MCs, and I see her ambiguous aspects as part of the essentially benign created storyworld—she’s wrong, but not monstrous, because this isn’t a world of human monsters (as in, say, Happy Sugar Life).

Tl;dr: What I’ve been saying about Igarashi/the redemption arc issue is not “I don’t like that kind of person” but “I don’t think this is that kind of story.”

But I could be wrong.

last edited at Sep 16, 2019 1:41PM

Mangaka nowadays rarely write irredeemable characters. It's actually one of the strength of manga to never really be Manichean.

If the author leaves her character at that, then I'm disappointed, because inserting a shallow sempai who didn't take love between girls seriously and even hurt someone over it, just for the sake of explaining why Chidori is fragile, and then tossing her out of the story is really weak writing.

Not that this manga is very deep actually, but it's still poor form to write such a disposable character.

I don’t think redeemability has much to do with good writing or not.

YagaKimi has exactly the shallow sempai who exists only to serve the mechanical plot function of explaining Sayaka’s tentative attitude toward falling in love (like Chidori, she resolves not to but does anyway).

On the other hand, the original Citrus series was absolutely addicted to introducing characters who were evil, or at least apparently dangerous or unsympathetic, and then rehabilitating them into cuddly teddy bears: Matsuri, Harumin’s hardass sister, Shirapon.

I know which one I think is well-written and which one isn’t.

Redeemability has nothing to do with good writing or not.
You can have a complex evil and interesting character.
Also we can see Igarashi's role is already not that shallow. It actually gave an important reason of why Chidori loves Nanoha, and it showed that aspect of a healthy relationship.

Hana ni Arashi chapter 45. Page 11 needs to be replaced.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/1lstn0z6qupjs7z/Hana_ni_Arashi_ch45.zip/file

That was....short. Senpai still a bitch.

Igarashi haz a sad.

Chapter 48 you can take that bs some where else bruh.

last edited at Sep 27, 2019 1:53PM

ah~~~
you got a pont, senpoai~~

I'm just going to say one thing.

One good thing the whole Igarashi arc does is to highlight that Chidori and Nanoha are serious about their relationship.

That wasn’t always so clear (at least to some readers) in the earlier, fluffier chapters—there were suggestions that, because they were keeping their relationship a secret, and because there was (at that point) no kissing, they were just playing at being lovers.

I remind any future participants in this story:

Do.NOT.fuck.with.Nanoha’s.Chidori.

And vice versa.

One good thing the whole Igarashi arc does is to highlight that Chidori and Nanoha are serious about their relationship.

That wasn’t always so clear (at least to some readers) in the earlier, fluffier chapters—there were suggestions that, because they were keeping their relationship a secret, and because there was (at that point) no kissing, they were just playing at being lovers.

I remind any future participants in this story:

Do.NOT.fuck.with.Nanoha’s.Chidori.

And vice versa.

If I'm reading the timeline correctly their relationship is pretty new at this point as well. If they got together a month after valentines, and this is the summer after that then they've gone out like a few months at most at this point. So I'm guessing this is where they too realized just how serious their relationship was.

Is the senpai a heteronoromative queer? Seems like it to me, but still checking for others' thoughts.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/hana_ni_arashi_ch48#last
I want to know who are they? Any ideas

It reminds me of Kotone from Fukakai na Boku no Subete o. Sure she was scared of breaking the "norm" and it's sad, but it doesn't justify what she put Chidori through. Also I was pretty much right thinking Igarashi was serious, but thought idea of 2 girls dating was impossible. Hence her reacting with shock to "revelation" that Chidori and Nanoha are dating despite being 2 girls.

last edited at Sep 27, 2019 2:34PM

"why did she reject me before giving me the opportunity to reject her first" lol

"...[Chidori's] heartfelt feelings..."
"....just wanted to tease her, to have some fun....."
"...to think she'd hate me that much..."

HEY, IGGY!!! SELF-REFLECTION IS NOT YOUR STRONGEST SUIT!!!
*curses under her breath*

Yeah, I know, I was advocating for Igarashi's POV or some sort of explanation from her side... I guess, "be careful what you wish for"? Or, is it "yay, we got official confirmation she's a self-centered closet-gay"? Or was this still too short and superficial to make proper judgement? ((That tear, tho... it has feelings...))

Do.NOT.fuck.with.Nanoha’s.Chidori.

And vice versa.

....Now I kinda hope Igarashi will return someday so Nanoha can resume from where Igarashi took the wind out of her sails and NanohaSmash™ her....

Ah, being biased towards kyoot widdle Chidori, and with the last happy kiss-chapter, this chapter came too soon for me to be more open-minded for Igarashi's case...

*found on Igarashi's i-pod*

last edited at Sep 27, 2019 2:58PM

Also I was pretty much right thinking Igarashi was serious, but thought idea of 2 girls dating was impossible. Hence her reacting with shock to "revelation" that Chidori and Nanoha are dating despite being 2 girls.

The whole "not as friends" Valentine's choco thing casts big doubt on that, as in the context it's hard to read any meanings but romantic ones into it (without some truly tortuous mental gymnastics anyway); pretty sure by that point she'd already come around to the idea.

I hold that her shock at their bold declaration (and indeed entire behaviour thereafter) was essentially her fast-tracking through a few of the so-called "five stages of grief", notably the denial/bargaining phase as it fully dawned to her just how hopelessly and irrecoverably late she was and any faint hopes she still had regarding Chidori not so much "crashed and burned" as "blew up already on the tarmac". (The way she was more or less telling Nanoha to "be good to her" before leaving would be the acceptance stage - "at least I know she's in good hands" sort of thing.)

She wasn't serious. Having feelings for someone and thinking that she could act on it, but when the reality comes she goes "lol I was just messing with you" is different.

She wasn't serious. Having feelings for someone and thinking that she could act on it, but when the reality comes she goes "lol I was just messing with you" is different.

Um, actually... that happens a lot even for people who are serious; to chicken out when things get real, and covering up in false bravado. Doesn't mean their feelings weren't true, but their anxieties were truer.

Senpai got her just desserts.

She wasn't serious. Having feelings for someone and thinking that she could act on it, but when the reality comes she goes "lol I was just messing with you" is different.

Um, actually... that happens a lot even for people who are serious; to chicken out when things get real, and covering up in false bravado. Doesn't mean their feelings weren't true, but their anxieties were truer.

I didn't say her feelings weren't true. And it's understandable to chicken out. But what is not, is playing with the other person's feelings. And from how I see it in this story, she knew what she was doing. She was still calling her cute while knowing she likes her, and at the same time having a boyfriend.

If I'm reading the timeline correctly their relationship is pretty new at this point as well. If they got together a month after valentines, and this is the summer after that then they've gone out like a few months at most at this point. So I'm guessing this is where they too realized just how serious their relationship was.

I’m not quite following the argument. It’s true that Nanoha and Chidori confessed at the beginning of their second year of high school. Therefore, everything from the beginning of the series except the explicit flashbacks takes place during the spring and summer of their second year, and the last thing we see of them in the narrative present is the fireworks festival (i.e., still the summer break prior to the fall/winter terms of their second year).

So while it’s true that the period of time depicted is fairly short (March through July/August), I don’t get much sense that they are actually becoming more serious; it’s more that, partly impelled by circumstances, they’re expressing it (a bit) more openly.

She was still calling her cute while knowing she likes her, and at the same time having a boyfriend.

It’s still an open question what happened to Boyfriend-kun. He certainly does not seem to be positioned to assuage Igarashi’s heartbreak at her kouhai double-rejection.

Although technically wouldn’t that be triple rejection?

• Chidori “avoids her at school”
• The “stick your ‘not just friends’ chocolates up your ass” event
• This is my guardian, Nanoha, who will kill you

If I'm reading the timeline correctly their relationship is pretty new at this point as well. If they got together a month after valentines, and this is the summer after that then they've gone out like a few months at most at this point. So I'm guessing this is where they too realized just how serious their relationship was.

I’m not quite following the argument. It’s true that Nanoha and Chidori confessed at the beginning of their second year of high school. Therefore, everything from the beginning of the series except the explicit flashbacks takes place during the spring and summer of their second year, and the last thing we see of them in the narrative present is the fireworks festival (i.e., still the summer break prior to the fall/winter terms of their second year).

So while it’s true that the period of time depicted is fairly short (March through July/August), I don’t get much sense that they are actually becoming more serious; it’s more that, partly impelled by circumstances, they’re expressing it (a bit) more openly.

All I meant is that due to the short time that has passed they haven't really faced anything that would have shaken their relationship before this.