Forum › 2DK, G-pen, Alarm clock discussion

joined Dec 28, 2016

Couldn't you just invent a new accent? For example, take Scottish, and then remove some of the weirdness from it, (keep "Ye", remove "laddie/lassie/dinnae/etc"). It'd maintain the fact that she's speaking something different (all that non-Japanese readers really care about) while making it easy to understand. Using Scottish directly drags along all the connotations of being Scottish, not being Hakata, which does a disservice to the translation.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 1:30PM

Alpha%20avatar
joined Nov 13, 2015

For me, it's less about being able to understand than it is being able to read this seriously without reading it like the Scotsman from Samurai Jack.

Same, really. Despite my best efforts, I can't help but hear a large, angry Scottish man.
Personally, I'd say if you're going to replace a dialect with an accent, go with something less specific and instantly recognizable.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 1:35PM

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

I have to admit the "translation" of the accent makes it a pain to read it for me. I stumble on the "dinnae" every time.

It would be worth it if maybe the other characters noticed she has an accent.

But here, just plain english would have been better instead of that adaptation.

Just my opinion. Translator choice and all that...

Esha%20icon
joined Mar 31, 2018

Compromise, she changes accent with every chapter.

Nishiki%20gosu%20rori%20dark%20hair%20sm
joined Jan 11, 2015

The "I hate what you do, but the choice is yours" doesn't offer as much consolation as people seem to think it does...

Honestly, these things are the reason it's hard to motivate spending 30 something hours working for free on something like this, lol.

joined Dec 28, 2016

Honestly, these things are the reason it's hard to motivate spending 30 something hours working for free on something like this, lol.

I guess think of the positive side. People care enough about the story to want to continue reading so are giving critique because they want to enjoy it and want you to continue. Translators are always appreciated.

Annotation%202020-07-02%20193122
joined Apr 19, 2018

Same, really. Despite my best efforts, I can't help but hear a large, angry Scottish man.

I thought that too, made her feel more like a minor (constant) comical relief than a central character

Icon%20(4)
joined Jan 20, 2014

YES, I'M GLAD TO SEE AN UPDATE OF THIS. FINALLY. I ended buying the first two tomes because I wanted to know how the story was.

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

Ropponmatsu posted:

Ropponmatsu posted:

The "I hate what you do, but the choice is yours" doesn't offer as much consolation as people seem to think it does...

Honestly, these things are the reason it's hard to motivate spending 30 something hours working for free on something like this, lol.

"Hate" is a strong word. I don't mind idioms, but here, somehow, my mind struggles to piece the meaning together. Especially so, because well known words (don't) are replaced with completely different words (dinnae).

It's like the translation of Mr Catt. Some people hated it because of the idioms, but since it didn't really impair the understanding, I didn't mind. But when I struggle to understand what the character means, it bothers me.

Stardusttelepath2
joined Oct 15, 2014

It'd probably make sense to follow YP's example of using "ya"s and "yers" for the time being, just to keep things clear and legible. If there's ever a point where the accent is an important plot element, such as someone pointing it out or there being a saying that noone understands, you can always use your good friend TL Note-onee-sama if need be.

Basically, it's not that it's a bad thing for an accent to be a key part of a character. It's just Scottish is the wrong way to go about it.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 2:29PM

joined Feb 21, 2018

The accent was annoying to read, stopped trying and skimmed the rest. Did I miss the dialogue that explains where the yuri is at?

Saw some spoilers. absolutely no yuri for a long time. Wake me up in a few volumes.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 3:09PM

Cat%202
joined Jun 5, 2015

ergzay posted:

Using Scottish directly drags along all the connotations of being Scottish, not being Hakata, which does a disservice to the translation.

Did you guys consider that maybe some people simply do not draw those connotations and simply see it as character speaking differently? Or idk, did you consider that a lot people are not a native speakers so those connotations goes just over their head? Like Rop who is not native speaker and probably never for a second thought it would be a issue? Seriously here in our official translation we also use our dialects to mark when someone speak different dialect, it can be pain to read sometimes, but I never though it "ruined" character or something, because I never looked at them through stereotypes when hearing different accents. All it tells me about people who complain about those, is that you guys are seriously shallow to be bothered by something so irrelevant and pointless as this.

Couldn't you just invent a new accent? For example, take Scottish, and then remove some of the weirdness from it, (keep "Ye", remove "laddie/lassie/dinnae/etc").

That is actually terrible idea. When picking a existing accent you have benefit of people recognizance it (or at least noticing something is different), but when you make it up, they can fail to see it as different dialect. They might think character just choose specific words. Also how do you pick which words you take and which you keep? Do you stick to 1 accent or mix few? This way you might make their dialect even more confusing compare to just sticking to existing one. And the most important thing. Making new accent actually requires much more effort. If you just pick words at random at the moment you risk being inconstant and character won't have any characteristic voice. So you basically have to write down which words you use, which you don't etc. which only increase amount of work without any guarantee it will actually give better result. And people can still complain about your word choices. In fact I can imagine people complaining you are butchering X dialect already. So simply picking 1 accent to stick with is simply much better and efficient way to do it.

Nya-chan posted:

It would be worth it if maybe the other characters noticed she has an accent.

But here, just plain english would have been better instead of that adaptation.

Except Rop said several times how other character comment on her dialect and how it is part of her personality, so yea again nice try on going against majority and ignoring the facts in your favor.

Nya-chan posted:

It's like the translation of Mr Catt. Some people hated it because of the idioms

And here you go again with lying about facts. There were no idioms in Mr. Catt translations. He added shit up. There were no idioms in original japanese as well. You are just trying to cover the fact, you said his made up translation was fine, because manga was dropped anyway, by saying he just replaced japanese idioms with english ones, when that is not even remotely true.

Goggled Anon posted:

If there's ever a point where the accent is an important plot element, such as someone pointing it out or there being a saying that noone understands, you can always use your good friend TL Note-onee-sama if need be.

Using tl-note for it is usually much worse way to go about it and breaks up immersion much easier.

It'd probably make sense to follow YP's example of using "ya"s and "yers" for the time being, just to keep things clear and legible.

YP did it their way but dropped it. Koyuri picked it up so they want to make their own tl choices that they believe are the best to express the original meaning of dialogues. I actually understand the issue of picking up translation after someone and having to decided w/e you keep consistency with it or do your own thing, but still I understand wanting to do things the way you think are better.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 2:55PM

Optimized-tonari_no_robot
joined Aug 24, 2015

Apparently there are 7 volumes of this series out already ?

If it continues to get translated this has gotta be one reeeally slow burn.

Icon%20(4)
joined Jan 20, 2014

Well, I have to say that the accent was hard at first, but how I'm an accent lover myself, I'll be glad if who just translated this make like a glossary, things like "oo need to be read like ou, aboot = about" and something like that. I have to say that I don't actually listening scottish accent ever, or at least I didn't recognize it.
I think that it's important for the character to have an accent because she change it if she feels secure, it would be some of her character missing if she hasn't.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 3:06PM

Cat%202
joined Jun 5, 2015

Polioro posted:

Well, I have to say that the accent was hard at first, but how I'm an accent lover myself, I'll be glad if who just translated this make like a glossary, things like "oo need to be read like ou, aboot = about" and something like that. I have to say that I don't actually listening scottish accent ever, or at least I didn't recognize it.

Here. That is a excellent and productive idea. They could include a glossary at the end explaining all "unfamiliar" words used in chapter or something like that, so whenever someone would be confused they can just go there and check or have it opened in different tab.

Capture%20_2018-03-05-21-59-51~2_resized
joined Apr 28, 2016

At the beginning/end of chapters would be a good place, like credit pages.

joined Feb 21, 2018

Polioro posted:

Well, I have to say that the accent was hard at first, but how I'm an accent lover myself, I'll be glad if who just translated this make like a glossary, things like "oo need to be read like ou, aboot = about" and something like that. I have to say that I don't actually listening scottish accent ever, or at least I didn't recognize it.

Here. That is a excellent and productive idea. They could include a glossary at the end explaining all "unfamiliar" words used in chapter or something like that, so whenever someone would be confused they can just go there and check or have it opened in different tab.

OR just use a less jarring accent, there are literally dozens of them.

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

We're going around in circles here, and the same points keep getting made multiple times, often by the same people.

Ride's over folks, badgering the translators is not going to do anyone any good.

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

Nevri posted:

Except Rop said several times how other character comment on her dialect and how it is part of her personality, so yea again nice try on going against majority and ignoring the facts in your favor.

From what I read here, a lot of people, if not the majority, are bothered by the scottish english. Even if I didn't go and read all the comments here before stating my first impression after reading this chapter, I think I'm not "going against the majority".

Anyway, you're not the ultimate expert on translation, everything you state is just your opinions. You're entitled to them as I am to mine. Nobody made you God and because you translated a few doujins you've suddenly become an authority on what people ought to consider a good or a bad translation. Grow up.

YP did it their way but dropped it. Koyuri picked it up so they want to make their own tl choices that they believe are the best to express the original meaning of dialogues. I actually understand the issue of picking up translation after someone and having to decided w/e you keep consistency with it or do your own thing, but still I understand wanting to do things the way you think are better.

LOL. So Koyuri has a right to make their own tl choice and do their own thing even if some people don't like it, but not Mr.Catt? You're so full of shit, it stinks to high-heaven.

There's "respecting the original work" like you advocate and confusing the english readers. The two times I've complained about translation lately are because it made it difficult to understand. MrCatt's translation maybe was wonky, but it didn't impair the understanding. But you've obviously decided that since I didn't criticize him like you, and even encouraged him, I've lost the right to criticize any and all translation. Guess what? I don't care about what you think.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 4:18PM

Yuri
joined May 11, 2015

Here. That is a excellent and productive idea. They could include a glossary at the end explaining all "unfamiliar" words used in chapter or something like that, so whenever someone would be confused they can just go there and check or have it opened in different tab.

So I'm constantly switching pages just to look up words I can't read? On a chapter with like 40 pages? On a phone were pages aren't shown in the first place and I have to change either the url or switch from page to page? It that's your Idea of an "excellent and productive idea" I don't wanna know your bad ideas...

Regarding the use of "southern accents" in translations: Most of the time coming across those accents the translation is an instant drop for me. Reading this I can't help but imagine a big dumb "rednek" used for comic relief...

Untitled
joined May 2, 2018

It's gey braw seeing this pickt up agin!

joined Oct 16, 2016

Apparently there are 7 volumes of this series out already ?

If it continues to get translated this has gotta be one reeeally slow burn.

Anyone can spoil a bit if any yuri romance happens in it at all?
I mean yuri in a way that a girl ends dating a girl not of the worst kind like a girl sleeps with a girl but she has a bf/husband/fiancee on the side and decided to return to him after her yuri one-stand etc.
It's a bit silly to try to read a long running series to learn later there's nothing in it and there's no yuri reward.
Or it's about bisexual women who always end with guys for real deal.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 4:19PM

Nishiki%20gosu%20rori%20dark%20hair%20sm
joined Jan 11, 2015

@malibus88
I don't want to spoil too much, but I can say that I hate stories like that, and would never translate/work on one. Hope that's good enough. :p

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

At this point, this manga is more about how being a mangaka is a really hard job and how they need someone to support them. And how people in the office world are shallow and conceited. And how men are not to be trusted (the fiancé was probably cheating on her during their LD relationship).

Something like, the author writing about her own experiences.

1461894977557
joined Jun 12, 2015

Or it's about bisexual women who always end with guys for real deal.

That's true for a side character. A shitty character, mind you

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