Forum › 2DK, G-pen, Alarm clock discussion

006
joined Jan 26, 2017

Well, english is my second language and I had no problem understanding her accent.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 8:26AM

Psyduck
joined Jun 17, 2015

You should drop the accent, it's a bit ridiculous to see "me laddies". Honestly I'm seeing it as pirate talk lol

Duke
joined Jul 29, 2017

I'm sorry, but as amusing as it is, the Scottish juat feels too weird and out of place here.

Nishiki%20gosu%20rori%20dark%20hair%20sm
joined Jan 11, 2015

I must admit that I never realised that people thought of Scottish as "comical"...

I'll think about alternatives, but completely dropping a defining feature of the main character would feel like changing her haircolour to me, and be equally disrespectful of the source material. (Especially since other characters make references to her unusual accent, and one of them gives her a nickname because of it.)

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 8:56AM

229469
joined Mar 18, 2016

Honesty, I'm mostly just thankful that someone took the time to translate the chapter and upload it. As such, whatever decision the scanlator makes should be respected. I don't know about the rest of you, but as far as manga goes, I have not done any work to aid in the process, so complaining feels awkward.

On one side the scottish accent makes it interesting and properly protrays how different her speech as different, however (as many people have stated) it also makes it more difficult to read.

In that case I have 2 suggestions, (again, even if you disagree, I take no offense and will just be grateful).

1) In the sections where her accent is being used, you could simply change the font (much like how you did with english being used) to signal to the readers it is different.

2) Instead of translating the dialect every time it is used, (although telling the readers when it is can still be an option) make the dialect Scottish only when it has a direct impact on the story. For example, in the situations thtt you mentioned where other characters comment on her odd dialect.

I hope I provided any degree of help, without stepping on anyone's toes.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 9:22AM

Screenshot_20180828-085722_1
joined Mar 21, 2016

Update. Well, since I know what happens next, I will pass. Too much het in this manga. And I hate Aoi.

I called it

C1147d3190ae4c0815cc862bce35952975d3857e072e7b6bef6e34b56d95dd83
joined Nov 12, 2017

oohf... from a creative standpoint, i understand the use of such a strong dialect to stress how different her regular speech patterns are from those around her... but the scottish ends up being a little to out there to be effective, especially for her more serious thoughts & dialogue. maybe a different accent would be better? (tho i will happily take scottish accent translation over no translation)

Img_20180401_104003
joined Nov 26, 2017

it's been 2 years... i thought the scanlator drop this series

Rsz_tumblr_m8ybh0fbrb1r43rfao1_500
joined Jan 26, 2017

Long chapters are the best. Reading 38 pages really gets you invested in the story.

Yuri
joined May 11, 2015

Honesty, I'm mostly just thankful that someone took the time to translate the chapter and upload it. As such, whatever decision the scanlator makes should be respected. I don't know about the rest of you, but as far as manga goes, I have not done any work to aid in the process, so complaining feels awkward.

Actually, no. Imagine a translator picking up something and giving one of the characters an accent where they speak in a language you don't understand a word of just for the sake of immersion...

Regarding the translation here.... I actually understand the thought behind it. In theory giving a character a hard to understand accent because they are hard to understand in the non-translated version is a good idea. But actually having to read a sentence 4 to 5 times just to get what they're saying makes me wanna drop the whole thing and never read it again...

Tsw118
joined Feb 27, 2015

Adding a note to this song:
I didn't have any difficulty in understanding what was said. So I'm OK with translator's choice on this matter.

Savage%20juno-min
joined Oct 17, 2017

Same here, english as second language and had no issues with legibility. Took a page or so to get used to it but after that smooth sailing.

joined Jun 23, 2017

No problem with the dialect as a second languager as well, however I will also agree that the laddie and lassie feels out of place.

Also, is there a chapter 3 and or more?

Parnifia the Bastard
Chrome_2018-04-13_12-33-32-min%20(3)
joined Aug 4, 2014

At first I thought this chapter was going to be the obligatory "lesbian gets pressured into attending a mixer" event. What I got instead was much more entertaining.

Nishiki%20gosu%20rori%20dark%20hair%20sm
joined Jan 11, 2015

I had never considered that people think of non-standard US English as "not serious", nor did I realise that changing of the "do/can" verb to a regional variant would make it hard to understand. I deliberately chose not to use too much regional vocabulary, because I didn't want to make it too hard to understand.

While I do understand that some people find the accent hard to understand, that's part of her character. I chose to use Scottish because Ohsawa chose to use a Hakata accent.

The accent Nanami has is thought of as "dorky" and a "country bumpkin" accent in Japan, so on the contrary, the preconceptions some of you seem to have about non-American English should just help get that part of her character across even better.

Summary: I translated a non-standard accent into another non-standard accent, just as I would've translated obnoxiously complicated Japanese into obnoxiously complicated English. My goal as a translator is to translate and convey the tone of the original as closely as possible, not to make things easier to understand than they were in the original.

Would people ask for revisions of Agatha Christie's Poirot because they don't understand the occasional French, I wonder (and would Japanese readers ask Ohsawa to change Nanami's accent to a more familiar Kansai accent, because her current one sounds "dumb" and is hard to understand if you haven't heard it before?).

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 11:23AM

Darin
joined Jul 13, 2015

A last mc accept that she can get a girlfriend, is open for that.

Jamal_Williams69
joined May 13, 2018

I had never considered that people think of non-standard US English as "not serious", nor did I realise that changing of the "do/can" verb to a regional variant would make it hard to understand. I deliberately chose not to use too much regional vocabulary, because I didn't want to make it too hard to understand.

While I do understand that some people find the accent hard to understand, that's part of her character. I chose to use Scottish because Ohsawa chose to use a Hakata accent.

The accent Nanami has is thought of as "dorky" and a "country bumpkin" accent in Japan, so on the contrary, the preconceptions some of you seem to have about non-American English should just help get that part of her character across even better.

Summary: I translated a non-standard accent into another non-standard accent, just as I would've translated obnoxiously complicated Japanese into obnoxiously complicated English. My goal as a translator is to translate and convey the tone of the original as closely as possible, not to make things easier to understand than they were in the original.

Would people ask for revisions of Agatha Christie's Poirot because they don't understand the occasional French, I wonder (and would Japanese readers ask Ohsawa to change Nanami's accent to a more familiar Kansai accent, because her current one sounds "dumb" and is hard to understand if you haven't heard it before?).

Ayo my negro, don't need to play defense just cuz a few forwards tryna take the ball from you. You the centre, and you decide what happens with the ball. I'm lovin the way you play right now, so keep on hitting the 3-pointers my man

joined Aug 19, 2017

Okay, here's the thing.

A Scottish accent is not comedic or ridiculous. But a Scottish accent coming from a clearly-Japanese woman, speaking Japanese, in the middle of Japan... well, it kind of is. Accents aren't just random collections of funny pronunciations and slang, they have their own geographic and cultural connotations, and when you simply slot out one to replace with another, suddenly none of those fit any more. You say you don't want to injure her character by removing an aspect of it, and while I understand that desire, you're doing even more harm by adding entirely new aspects simply by introducing the connotations of a Scottish person to her where they clearly have no place. I can't engage with her character because the idea of a random Japanese woman in the middle of Tokyo with a cliche highlands accent is too ridiculous- and to be clear, I am Scottish, so I have no problems whatsoever understanding it. It also goes against the desire to have a translation be as transparent as possible: every time I see an "aboot" or "dinnae", I'm instantly aware that I'm reading a translation and taken out of the dialogue itself.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 11:44AM

Dame%20na%20watachini%20kouishite%20kudasai
joined May 22, 2016

Okay, here's the thing.

A Scottish accent is not comedic or ridiculous. But a Scottish accent coming from a clearly-Japanese woman, speaking Japanese, in the middle of Japan... well, it kind of is.

?
?? This is an English translation? Are you saying that a southern US accent makes more sense for a Japanese woman to have?
Or are you saying that you somehow want the Japanese Hakata dialect in... English?

every time I see an "aboot" or "dinnae", I'm instantly aware that I'm reading a translation and taken out of the dialogue itself.

That's exactly it? This is a translation? I'm glad we're on the same page here then, would hate for you to miss the point of this being an English translation of a Japanese series.

joined Aug 19, 2017

?? This is an English translation? Are you saying that a southern US accent makes more sense for a Japanese woman to have?
Or are you saying that you somehow want the Japanese Hakata dialect in... English?

I'm saying don't translate dialects when you don't have to, because it rarely works out well - such as here, where suddenly I'm being presented with an inexplicably Scottish Japanese woman. When did I ever mention Southern accents?

While we're on the subject, though, the whole Kansai-ben = Southern thing is a tiny bit better, purely because of how often it's used, which means that at least some readers will be able to immediately realize what it's coding for instead of simply seeing the character as being from the South. There's no mental mapping like that for Hakata = Scottish.

Also, if you really, really want a British "country-bumpkin" accent, well, there already is one, and it's West Country, not Scottish.

every time I see an "aboot" or "dinnae", I'm instantly aware that I'm reading a translation and taken out of the dialogue itself.
That's exactly it? This is a translation? I'm glad we're on the same page here then, would hate for you to miss the point of this being an English translation of a Japanese series.

Please don't be obtuse. As the part of the post you didn't quote said, the goal of a translation is to be as transparent as possible. Every time there's a clear Scottish phrase, I immediately am aware that "hey, look, an artifact of translation" and am taken out of actually engaging with the dialogue itself.

Nishiki%20gosu%20rori%20dark%20hair%20sm
joined Jan 11, 2015

@DYWYPI
If a defining and frequently referenced part of her character isn't a reason to include a dialect in the translation, what are your criteria for it being required?

Dame%20na%20watachini%20kouishite%20kudasai
joined May 22, 2016

?? This is an English translation? Are you saying that a southern US accent makes more sense for a Japanese woman to have?
Or are you saying that you somehow want the Japanese Hakata dialect in... English?

I'm saying don't translate dialects when you don't have to, because it rarely works out well - such as here, where suddenly I'm being presented with an inexplicably Scottish Japanese woman. When did I ever mention Southern accents?

Yeah but here's the thing
You do have to. That's what the translator has been repeating over and over. It's literally part of the character. Character has an unconventional accent, she doesn't speak in standard Japanese. She doesn't speak in a Kansai accent either, so no southern stuff.

every time I see an "aboot" or "dinnae", I'm instantly aware that I'm reading a translation and taken out of the dialogue itself.

That's exactly it? This is a translation? I'm glad we're on the same page here then, would hate for you to miss the point of this being an English translation of a Japanese series.

Please don't be obtuse. As the part of the post you didn't quote said, the goal of a translation is to be as transparent as possible. Every time there's a clear Scottish phrase, I immediately am aware that "hey, look, an artifact of translation" and am taken out of actually engaging with the dialogue itself.

Yeah but that's just like your opinion, man
I'm sure the Japanese readers found the accent quite noticeable in Japanese too, lol
I don't think the translator should fuckin bury it just because you dislike translations of dialects
But alright, if you insist.
Here you go, the Japanese woman in Japan, speaking with the proper accent, no artifact of translation to take you out of your reading

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 12:28PM

joined Aug 19, 2017

If a defining and frequently referenced part of her character isn't a reason to include a dialect in the translation, what are your criteria for it being required?

If a dialect is necessary for the story or character to make sense, do it minimally. The approach in the first chapter was fine: she clearly talks differently, but - crucially - in a non-region-specific way. As soon as you bring a specific geographic accent in, you're instantly introducing a whole bunch of spurious connotations to the character that almost certainly undo any good the presence of a specific dialect could do. No, the generic "she talks differently" doesn't convey the same meaning as the original Hakata dialect - but neither does the Scottish, and it at least does so without making her seem to be Scottish instead. Ultimately, the only time the meaning of a dialect is going to be as clear to English readers as it would be to those of the original language is when it's directly referenced and explained in dialogue, and so generally the least harm a translator can do is to take it as far as is needed for those referenced to make sense without going overboard.

Ultimately, it's your translation and your choices to make. But I tried to read this chapter and just couldn't take her dialogue seriously, which is why I posted.

EDIT:

You do have to. That's what the translator has been repeating over and over. It's literally part of the character. Character has an unconventional accent, she doesn't speak in standard Japanese. She doesn't speak in a Kansai accent either, so no southern stuff.

I know what they said; I'm disagreeing with it. That's sort of the point of my post. When you translate a character with a dialect, you will inevitably do harm to their character. But you will likely do less harm avoiding or minimizing it than you will suddenly making them appear to be Scottish or Mexian or Italian or whatever. You lose part of one way one aspect of her character is expressed, but you avoid adding a whole piles of entirely new aspects of her character that don't really exist.

I'm sure the Japanese readers found the accent quite noticeable in Japanese too, lol

That's... not really my point. Noticing "hey, she's from Hakata" in a line doesn't take you out of the story; if anything, it draws you into it. Noticing "hey, she's Scottish... wait, no, that doesn't make sense. Oh, right, it's from the translation" does.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 12:42PM

Dame%20na%20watachini%20kouishite%20kudasai
joined May 22, 2016

That's... not really my point

I'm not sure you were making appropriate points the whole time tbh. I really disagree with your stance ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Noticing "hey, she's Scottish... wait, no, that doesn't make sense. Oh, right, it's from the translation" does.

There's no reason why you'd think like that though
No one reads manga in American English and thinks "okay they're American". You sound like... a special case.

last edited at Jun 19, 2018 12:55PM

joined Aug 19, 2017

I'm not sure you were making appropriate points the whole time tbh. I really disagree with your stance ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I'm glad we had this productive conversation.

There's no reason why you'd think like that though
No one reads manga in American English and thinks "okay they're American". You sound like... a special case.

Just as was the case for Southern and Kansai-ben, we have an automatic mapping between English and Japanese. We know, by convention, that when we read standard English, it's coding for Japanese speakers and Japanese characters (for instance, consider how distracting a subtitle along the lines of "just tell me in English!" can we - the localization breaks our mapping by implying that they really are English speakers, not Japanese). There is no such mapping for Hakata being Scottish - I have no intuitive concept of what a Scottish accent means for a Japanese character, and so she just sounds Scottish.

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