Its funny how much a single chapter of a pretty simple comedy is just breaking peoples brains.

People will twist themselves into all sorts of insane logical pretzels to avoid ever acknowledging a character as trans. We've now come to the radical conclusion that a "yuri heroine" actually cant be a woman, but is in fact a "moe existence". And of course we rehash the same tired arguments about how "erm akshully femboys are radical and cool and trans women are conformist/evil".

I for one am looking forward to more of this series.

They don't want to be woman because "women are cool" or because they think this will improve their lives, they want that because if they can't be that they can't be themselves, it's the same need a cis man/woman have to be their own gender.

The series tries addressing this. I would just let chapters release and see how you feel then.

I have seen what you imply, the character doesn't show interest in being a woman in future chapters

Its funny how much a single chapter of a pretty simple comedy is just breaking peoples brains.

People will twist themselves into all sorts of insane logical pretzels to avoid ever acknowledging a character as trans. We've now come to the radical conclusion that a "yuri heroine" actually cant be a woman, but is in fact a "moe existence". And of course we rehash the same tired arguments about how "erm akshully femboys are radical and cool and trans women are conformist/evil".

I for one am looking forward to more of this series.

They don't want to be woman because "women are cool" or because they think this will improve their lives, they want that because if they can't be that they can't be themselves, it's the same need a cis man/woman have to be their own gender.

The series tries addressing this. I would just let chapters release and see how you feel then.

I have seen what you imply, the character doesn't show interest in being a woman in future chapters

Well, at that point, you're either not being honest or there's something else going on. If being envious of women's skin, hair, cute clothes, and their general bodies while being dissatisfied with their own body and saying "I wish I were born a girl and want to forget my past," doesn't mean anything, there's not much to say. We'll have to agree to disagree.

last edited at Aug 20, 2025 1:22PM

@SrNevik

There are many instances I've seen where certain Japanese fans will have a, let's say, odd attitude about accepting trans women as part of yuri. My point was that the author might be sincere in their depiction of a trans character, but be wary of how they use the term "yuri," so as not to deal with any issues around audience expectations. Hence, the "it's not but it is" response they give. I'm not as concerned with random Japanese comments. They are not any better than random English comments.

This might be the approach I would use, just from a marketing perspective, if I knew my readership was as you describe. Write the hopefully positive and non-stigmatizing story and then let the reader decide how to categorize it as long as they're paying up, thereby achieving a neutral to positive social impact and a chance that enough people like the story for it to continued being published.

Its funny how much a single chapter of a pretty simple comedy is just breaking peoples brains.

People will twist themselves into all sorts of insane logical pretzels to avoid ever acknowledging a character as trans. We've now come to the radical conclusion that a "yuri heroine" actually cant be a woman, but is in fact a "moe existence". And of course we rehash the same tired arguments about how "erm akshully femboys are radical and cool and trans women are conformist/evil".

I for one am looking forward to more of this series.

They don't want to be woman because "women are cool" or because they think this will improve their lives, they want that because if they can't be that they can't be themselves, it's the same need a cis man/woman have to be their own gender.

The series tries addressing this. I would just let chapters release and see how you feel then.

I have seen what you imply, the character doesn't show interest in being a woman in future chapters

Well, at that point, you're either not being honest or there's something else going on. If being envious of women's skin, hair, cute clothes, and their general bodies while being dissatisfied with their own body and saying "I wish I were born a girl and want to forget my past," doesn't mean anything, there's not much to say. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Given the context of the work, that's normal. Also what he's envying is only the body, what they want is to have the appearance of a maiden, that's not what being trans means. He's not envying her identity as a woman, but her physical features, ones that he now has a man. What he needs to get past, and the work shows it, is this closed view of the world, the idea that for being born male he cannot enjoy the same things as girls, also he needs to stop idolizing woman. The girls showing interest in his male body comes as a way to show that they aren't as pure as he once believed and that his male body has qualities

Its funny how much a single chapter of a pretty simple comedy is just breaking peoples brains.

People will twist themselves into all sorts of insane logical pretzels to avoid ever acknowledging a character as trans. We've now come to the radical conclusion that a "yuri heroine" actually cant be a woman, but is in fact a "moe existence". And of course we rehash the same tired arguments about how "erm akshully femboys are radical and cool and trans women are conformist/evil".

I for one am looking forward to more of this series.

They don't want to be woman because "women are cool" or because they think this will improve their lives, they want that because if they can't be that they can't be themselves, it's the same need a cis man/woman have to be their own gender.

The series tries addressing this. I would just let chapters release and see how you feel then.

I have seen what you imply, the character doesn't show interest in being a woman in future chapters

Well, at that point, you're either not being honest or there's something else going on. If being envious of women's skin, hair, cute clothes, and their general bodies while being dissatisfied with their own body and saying "I wish I were born a girl and want to forget my past," doesn't mean anything, there's not much to say. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Given the context of the work, that's normal. Also what he's envying is only the body, what they want is to have the appearance of a maiden, that's not what being trans means. He's not envying her identity as a woman, but her physical features, ones that he now has a man. What he needs to get past, and the work shows it, is this closed view of the world, the idea that for being born male he cannot enjoy the same things as girls, also he needs to stop idolizing woman. The girls showing interest in his male body comes as a way to show that they aren't as pure as he once believed and that his male body has qualities

I don't agree with that reading whatsoever, but I'll leave it at that.

last edited at Aug 20, 2025 1:34PM

-- And also, a cis "man" dislikes to have lesbians to have relationship because look at the real world: they would definitely complain that they are too lonely and that they don't have female companion because of...(Just my two cents)

Cis men and bigoted incels are not the same thing. This is extremely dangerous thinking that leads to hatred of people who are your allies.

You're too biased, there are many men into Yuri. 60% of the readers of Yurihime are men

Cis men and bigoted incels are not the same thing. This is extremely dangerous thinking that leads to hatred of people who are your allies.

Thank you both for telling me these.
I wish for affirmation that tells me that my biases are wrong.

Thank you for correcting me.

last edited at Aug 20, 2025 1:55PM

-- And also, a cis "man" dislikes to have lesbians to have relationship because look at the real world: they would definitely complain that they are too lonely and that they don't have female companion because of...(Just my two cents)

-- Oh and according to observation through Twitter/X, a cis man would say something like "you didn't like men? That's because you haven't found the "one" yet something like that..and would work extremely hard just to "straighten lesbian" . But in this case, the protagonist said "he wants to be a girl so that he could fall for a girl ". I believe he has the "Yuri heart" in a male body

You're too biased, there are many men into Yuri. 60% of the readers of Yurihime are men

Some years ago there was a survey on the Dynasty Scans Discord. https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/topics/15346-dynasty-specific-demographic-survey

42.5% cis men, 35% straight cis men. Men and women overall basically the same at 45% each, with 9% non-binary.

/r/yuri_manga has had various polls, with results like 33% male, 27% cis male, 31% straight male (different polls asked different questions).

(This is not meant to rebut the Yurihime number; different communities have different compositions. Point is that yeah, lots of men are around, no matter where you look.)

@jhonathan

Given the context of the work, that's normal. Also what he's envying is only the body, what they want is to have the appearance of a maiden, that's not what being trans means. He's not envying her identity as a woman, but her physical features, ones that he now has a man. What he needs to get past, and the work shows it, is this closed view of the world, the idea that for being born male he cannot enjoy the same things as girls, also he needs to stop idolizing woman. The girls showing interest in his male body comes as a way to show that they aren't as pure as he once believed and that his male body has qualities

Being trans means having dysphoria and benefiting from social and/or medical changes that alleviate a sense of discomfort or wrongness. What you describe is completely adjacent, neither confirming nor denying this reading. For instance, I would say most teenage girls the protagonist's age would like to be seen as cute, kind, friendly, and non-threatening, regardless of trans status. A teenage boy could of course also feel this way, even if it would be more atypical of his demographic.

Edit: To put this more simply, to the people who read the MC as being a literal maiden, the MC wanting to be maidenly will very much fail to qualify as evidence to the contrary.

last edited at Aug 20, 2025 2:27PM

There are many instances I've seen where certain Japanese fans will have a, let's say, odd attitude about accepting trans women as part of yuri. My point was that the author might be sincere in their depiction of a trans character, but be wary of how they use the term "yuri," so as not to deal with any issues around audience expectations. Hence, the "it's not but it is" response they give. I'm not as concerned with random Japanese comments. They are not any better than random English comments.

With author and readers, I mean objective readership, not just the japanese one. “odd attitude” is transphobia.
My point is that, the author's remark can either be to avoid transphobic fans or because they themselves are transphobic. I personally don't think theorizing about whether or not the author is bigoted or an ally helps the conversation, because we don’t know, so using the author intention to analyze whether the basis of the story is or not transphobic doesn’t work. That will depend on each person, how they see the world, they lived experiences, etc.

This series is officially tagged as yuri on its home site, and the author seems to primarily make yuri series. Also, based on my reading of the future chapters, I would call this clearly yuri.

Awesome!

I've seen authors avoid using the term "yuri" in many series that are very obviously girls' love. Even "The Green Yuri" author has avoided using the term and discussed being uncomfortable with the expectations of it for her series. We would not question that one, right? I would not say the term is less restrictive in Japan; based on my experience, it's the opposite, because for some, it seems to come with some expectations beyond just involving women.

I think those are two different thinks. Western creators have the “my story my rules” mindset meanwhile Japanese authors tend to feel apologetic when they break the common structure or “aesthetic” of the genre they are working on -specially if we are talking about commercial works-. It feels like a warning. “I am sorry if this doesn’t feel like a XXY, I hope you keep supporting this story” it’s very common.

About the versatility of the term between West vs Japan. Agree to disagree. Honestly it depends, when you read japanese articles about important yuri series from the past, Rose of Versailles is always there, never have I seen Dear Brother mentioned, even if it is “more yuri” than RoV. But then we have the resent discourse around Rock is a Lady’s Modesty in the west. It is a interesting topic.

last edited at Aug 20, 2025 6:26PM

Being a woman is different from being a manga heroine.

The people arguing that the protagonist of this manga is not a (trans) girl have resorted to arguing that no manga character is a woman. Truly this thread has produced heretofore unseen wonders.

last edited at Aug 20, 2025 2:52PM

i like this.

About the versatility of the term between West vs Japan. Agree to disagree. Honestly it depends, when you read japanese articles about important yuri series from the past, Rose of Versailles is always there, never have I seen Dear Brother mentioned, even if it is “more yuri” than RoV. But then we have the resent discourse around Rock is a Lady’s Modesty in the west. It is a interesting topic.

This is why I personally increasingly prefer to just use GL. It doesn't stop all discourse, because people still argue about subtext, but I think it helps a lot.

I understand why some are seeing this as a genuine trans story (so far).

I also understand why some are concerned that it won't be.

I don't understand why everyone seems unable to have that same understanding of those on the other side...but maybe that's just human nature. There have been unsavory comments, and I can't speak to the ones that have actually been removed (I'll assume they were genuinely awful), but as far as what's visible now, the worst of it is people being accused of things they're not actually saying.

As for me...I think I will continue, but with some caution.

Fox sake, this thread is a disaster.

Like, I don't really expect cis people to directly empathise with the trans experience but to argue with the people saying "yeah, that's really realistic and true to my lived experience, this is very trans" with the counterpoint of... basically "nuh uh"? That's fucked up.

Being a woman is different from being a manga heroine.

The people arguing that the protagonist of this manga is not a (trans) girl have resorted to arguing that no manga character is a woman. Truly this thread has produced heretofore unseen wonders.

That's not my point. I'm saying that wanting to be recognized as a woman, biologically, psychologically and socially is different from wanting to be a idealized fictional figure.
A girl who wants to be Superman doesn't want to be a man, but the fictional superhero

In this case it's more like a fictional woman wanting Superman's traits: his physique, his ethics/moral standing, how people socially relate to him, etc. If this fictional woman starts crying in response to their primary and secondary sex characteristics, people might start questioning if they are really a woman or if the focus on Superman is a cope to think about the specific type of man they'd like be.

Again, that last part is not specific to trans people: everyone thinks about the type of person they'd like to be, for the most part. It's not like everyone except trans people have hopes and dreams, but trans people live and die for their gender only. Even a trans person might see living as their preferred gender as simply a means to broader life goals, much like how anyone might get a health condition treated because of what they could be doing if it's cured.

last edited at Aug 20, 2025 5:44PM

Being a woman is different from being a manga heroine.

The people arguing that the protagonist of this manga is not a (trans) girl have resorted to arguing that no manga character is a woman. Truly this thread has produced heretofore unseen wonders.

That's not my point. I'm saying that wanting to be recognized as a woman, biologically, psychologically and socially is different from wanting to be a idealized fictional figure.
A girl who wants to be Superman doesn't want to be a man, but the fictional superhero

Jhonathan, are you transfem? Because if not, I ask that you don't argue with transfems about what it means to be a trans woman. For the record, "wanting to be an idealized fictional figure" is extremely often the precursor to wanting to be a woman biologically and/or socially (I have no idea what you might mean by "psychologically a woman"). There's an entire webtoon about this even. Furthermore, your point is completely irrelevant because the protagonist explicitly wants to be a woman (not "recognized as") biologically -- see here and here -- as well as socially -- see here and here.

last edited at Aug 20, 2025 5:49PM

One of the 'problem' with being transfem is effectively figuring out 'what does it mean with being a woman (to me)?' so most will attach to what culture consider 'women qualities': boobs, make-up, cute plushy, comphet, the works. then after she's settled down enough to be secure, it's possible to approach the question with more nuance.

TLDR: yeah, sorry. there's a reason 'wanting to be girl' at all is considered sign of transfem dysphoria - whether it's actual girl or girl-shaped being is irrelevant.

That's a lot of comments for 26 pages. Maybe future chapters will ease in what the manga's about.

Being a woman is different from being a manga heroine.

The people arguing that the protagonist of this manga is not a (trans) girl have resorted to arguing that no manga character is a woman. Truly this thread has produced heretofore unseen wonders.

That's not my point. I'm saying that wanting to be recognized as a woman, biologically, psychologically and socially is different from wanting to be a idealized fictional figure.
A girl who wants to be Superman doesn't want to be a man, but the fictional superhero

cis boy please shut the fuck up. You are talking over trans fems as if their lived experiences mean nothing.

Fox sake, this thread is a disaster.

Like, I don't really expect cis people to directly empathise with the trans experience but to argue with the people saying "yeah, that's really realistic and true to my lived experience, this is very trans" with the counterpoint of... basically "nuh uh"? That's fucked up.

if there's one thing cis people love to do in regards to trans people, especially women, its to talk over them.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......
I'll give it a shot but I'm getting weird vibes off this, I'm not expecting every comedy story to be as great with gender and a transfem protag as like fantasy bishoujo or something (I love you Tachibana) but this is already failing in a lot of areas to me.
Who knows? maybe it'll get better with later chapters!

Oh also, all of the people here talking over us actual trans women, please shut the FUCK UP for once, this aint about you.

last edited at Aug 20, 2025 6:59PM

Being a woman is different from being a manga heroine.

The people arguing that the protagonist of this manga is not a (trans) girl have resorted to arguing that no manga character is a woman. Truly this thread has produced heretofore unseen wonders.

That's not my point. I'm saying that wanting to be recognized as a woman, biologically, psychologically and socially is different from wanting to be a idealized fictional figure.
A girl who wants to be Superman doesn't want to be a man, but the fictional superhero

cis boy please shut the fuck up. You are talking over trans fems as if their lived experiences mean nothing.

Why, they don't see anything wrong with this /s

Cogito posted:

Being a woman is different from being a manga heroine.

The people arguing that the protagonist of this manga is not a (trans) girl have resorted to arguing that no manga character is a woman. Truly this thread has produced heretofore unseen wonders.

It's your cousin, Marvin! Marvin Magritte? You know that new sound you're looking for, well...

Jokes aside, the closest I get to sympathizing with the plausibly-deniable haters on here is that I'm really not into forcefem stories in general. I suppose by the strictest definition, though, this is one -- and the MC being broadly deeply in favor of those changes right from the get-go helps a lot in making it palatable, rather than it coming off like slow torture the MC begrudgingly accepts over time (so, yeah, not a hard guess where I sit on the cis-trans scale here).

Certainly looking forward to more if it shows up here.