There's a very common sentiment among the more amateurish parts of the yuri fandom that Class S is an outdated genre driven by historical compromises and editorial restrictions, rendering it unable to express a 'true' lesbianism because of its focus on symbolism and subtlety.
I agree 100% that westerns have a very closed way of perceiving queerness and are quick to catalog what is and what isn’t queer, unables to accept others perspectives.
When I read lesbian comics from the west that are realistic, they do not look very different from the high school american movies I have seen. Basically, their stories for me are also "unrealistic" but I understand that they work in a context different from mine and with that understanding, I navigate them or at least don’t judge them.
Class-S and sisterhood are probably my favorite tropes in yuri. They are unique, I like the stablished dynamics and aesthetics.
Although I differ a little, even if class-s did not have subtly queerness, it would still be good. I don’t think yuri needs to be queer or realistic to be signifcative or valid.
I understand the value She loves to cook She loves to eat has, but its not my cup of tea as I am not searching for that in yuri.
For example, platonic lesbian relationships in japan were expected-normal in adolescense and outside of yuri, even nowadays lesbians are seen as sexless. So for me yuri having sex scenes, women masturbating, etc. is more subversive than the use of labels.
Otherside Picnic had a “intimate” scene and some reviews in amazon jp were complaining. I saw something similar with a Thai GL fanpage when the protagonists had a bed scene (it was tame lol). Obviously this is not Class-S fault but a example of how this has shaped readers in accepting a specific type of yuri and how fans reacts to more “straight forward” lesbian interaction. Korean yuri suffers from this treatment of not being “real” yuri.
So, as you said. It is a bit fascinating because a lot of what people like about (japanese) yuri derives from Class-S, simultaneously don't liking it but at the same time when a manga completely deviates from the vestiges of class-S the scrutiny of What constitutes a Yuri begins.
But I also believe that this is a topic with multiple angles. A few years ago, Hanamonogatari was re-edited in Japan and the sleeve used the word "Yuri" and the phrase in it was something like "when lilies were still a secret" and japanese lesbians were angry because the media and everyone avoids using the word lesbian. When I Favor the Villainess was aired in japan, some were angry at the LGBT talk. So what is and isn’t subversive also varies depending on your context.
This discussion can go back to what is “queer”. and that also varies from person to person. Even what many non-western people consider queer is based on western queerness. I also think the idea that yuri=lesbians is what generates this discussion.
But I must also contradict myself and say that it stresses me that one can never criticize yuri because suddenly you are a man, you are lesbophobic, have never read yuri and likes shojo/bl, are ignorant about the history of the genre, I am reading in bad faith, I didn’t understand the plot, want to restrict lesbian expression,etc. sometimes it borders anti-intellectualism.
