Currently reading the webnovel for this manga I'm a bit confused as at some point, the plot of the novel and the manga seemed to have diverged radically. Anyone who read the novel had the same experience?

On the topic of consent, I think the novel, by virtue of having extensive passages of Wakaba's internal monologue makes it a bit easier to understand and I do think that the tag of "dubious consent" is definitely the most appropriate as Wakaba herself is just constantly confused about why she does not push back against Komaki. She even acknowledges that she probably could just stop interacting with her but just plain doesn't want to do that and like 70% of the novel is just her trying to puzzle out what her relationship to and thoughts about Komaki actually are.
In short, it is dubious because Wakaba herself actually doesn't really know if she's consenting.

One thing I do find significant though and that sets this one apart from 100 days in my personal opinion is that there's still a sort of invisible line not to be crossed, despite what that previous poster with the panels might want to suggest. The tone in the novel too gets noticeably darker when Komaki first makes Wakaba undress and Wakaba is genuinely scared of what might happen, resolving that any actual sexual acts with Komaki would be a step too far and something she would need to resist. The fact that Komaki then DOESN'T step beyond that red line is significant I think, as it defuses the dark tension which has been INTENTIONALLY built up before that and implies that Komaki might, despite her demeanour, not be willing to do anything that would actually emotionally harm Wakaba.
In 100 days, on the other hand, that line is crossed in the infamous chapter mentioned by others here. Of course, the violated party then decides that she actually doesn't mind the line being crossed during/after the process, but it doesn't change the fact that that boundary was violated. I understand that we each have our own feelings about that scene and our distinct opinions, but as someone who was emotionally disturbed by that scene and had to drop the manga because of it, I personally (!) struggle to understand how it can be read as anything but rape, and if I had had that tag at the time of my reading the chapter, I might have been more emotionally prepared for what's to come and it wouldn't have been so disturbing. In any case, that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to enjoy that manga or have different readings of the scene, but I do think it is different than for example this story and I wonder if fans of 100 days aren't influenced in their reading of the scene by their knowledge about the (apparently plentiful) fluff to come later down the line.

Currently reading the webnovel for this manga I'm a bit confused as at some point, the plot of the novel and the manga seemed to have diverged radically. Anyone who read the novel had the same experience?

Yeah, they make changes to accommodate the manga medium. It's certainly cuts out some good internal dialogue but that's the same with AdaShima. Sucks but there's only so much they can do with the shift in format. This adaptation could really use the internal dialogue since it sets more webs to unwind than 100 days. The entire story is also about unwinding those webs, while the "100 days" was just the opening premise to a traditional couple's story.

I wonder if fans of 100 days aren't influenced in their reading of the scene by their knowledge about the (apparently plentiful) fluff to come later down the line.

I doubt most people who read 100 days knew there was a LN and even less would have read them (which is normal for most LN to manga adaptations). I don't think it has an official English translation still either--I could be blanking. I certainly hadn't read the LNs then. The people who read the LNs as they released wouldn't know about future events until they came out as well. It's just a difference of opinion, as you said.

I would say 100 pretty much always leans "fluff," it just becomes almost sickeningly fluffy and increasingly so afterwards. It pretty much hits all the milestones people tend to want these couples to hit; but as always, it's fair to dislike the series.

last edited at Jul 28, 2024 11:10AM

I appreciate both this series and Arioto for different reasons but I'll just say right off the bat that I'm bias in favor of Arioto, this series is fine but as a poster pointed out the tones are quite different, Marika's internal dialogue is over the top tsundere (and at first in denial).

I think the only thing I would add to the comparison between these two series tone and "infamous" scene in Arioto is that before the two MCs start dating Marika is is the one that floats the idea of getting into sex work for money since she feels she is already being sexually harassed at her current job, Aya offers to pay for Marika instead and the logic Marika and Aya agree to is that Marika will "only" be selling herself to another high school girl and that since she's "So straight" it'll be a cakewalk. Of course there's far deeper emotions at play in the LN and learned later down the line but as far as Marika is concerned it's a transaction at first, until she starts to catch feelings.

Just confess already!

Shuukara:

They break consent with each other all the time

For me the biggest problem has been (novel spoiler) when they bite each other hard enough to draw blood. At least once, Miyagi to Sendai, and I think other instances. That feels pretty far to me.

Arioto non-con: LN1/manga: So there's the LN1/manga scene, which starts rapey but ends ecstatically lovey-dovey; it should also be noted that's not the first time they have sex, Marika has been cumming in Aya's hands for a while, she just says sulkily that she doesn't want sex that particular day. Meanwhile Aya acts as if they're in a consensual non-consent relationship. LN5: Much later, there's a scene where Marika practically rapes Aya, assaulting her in the bar break room to feeble "not here" protests. Intermediate: Aya would love to have Marika as a total power exchange submissive and housepet, but won't force the issue. LNs 2 and 3 are basically 50% BDSM erotica. I think Aya does introduce a safeword later, though I don't recall it ever being used.

Oh man, good thing I used the Preview button, I got Discord spoiler bars confused with Dynasty forum spoilers.

Shuukara:

They break consent with each other all the time

For me the biggest problem has been (novel spoiler) when they bite each other hard enough to draw blood. At least once, Miyagi to Sendai, and I think other instances. That feels pretty far to me.

It's not a problem for me but it was one of the things I was thinking about when I wrote that. Clearly not something agreed upon before it was done, but less of an issue than the popcorn incident

Shuukara: the popcorn incident

Is that in MTL-only chapters, e.g. beyond ch 65 so far, or have I forgotten something already?

Shuukara: the popcorn incident

Is that in MTL-only chapters, e.g. beyond ch 65 so far, or have I forgotten something already?

Part 14, so pretty early on.

I think the only thing I would add to the comparison between these two series tone and "infamous" scene in Arioto is that before the two MCs start dating Marika is is the one that floats the idea of getting into sex work for money since she feels she is already being sexually harassed at her current job, Aya offers to pay for Marika instead and the logic Marika and Aya agree to is that Marika will "only" be selling herself to another high school girl and that since she's "So straight" it'll be a cakewalk. Of course there's far deeper emotions at play in the LN and learned later down the line but as far as Marika is concerned it's a transaction at first, until she starts to catch feelings.

Hello....I am sorry to randomly butt in out of nowhere like this...But ACTUALLY!!!!

CORRECTION:
Marika from (100 days yuri manga) never pass around that idea, brought or float that idea...Her "2 friends" were the ones who brought that idea up of getting a sugar daddy (It fked up but her friends were probably just joking around) when Marika was lamenting and wondering if there are any good part-time jobs and she/Marika was hesitate at the idea but become somewhat interested at the possible chance of getting 10 grand (10,000 yen) at just having dinner with a sugar daddy [A stupid idea since often it is very dangerous depending on the person]. Marika says if she is going to get sexually harassed anyways may as well make 10 grand which is better (She quit her part-time job due to claims of sexual harassment from the manager).

Aya came onto Marika due to overhearing/Eavesdropping their conversation then being afraid that Marika might actually try to get a sugar daddy (Not sure if Marika was actually planning to or if she was just going along with her friend's joke/suggestion), thinking and being confident in her SEGGS skills lol...

Apologies for my nosy correction XD

last edited at Jul 28, 2024 11:48PM

So huuuuh... Why aren't they dating yet?

My guess: because Wakaba liked a boy once and Komaki thinks Wakaba is straight.

I've been thinking it was this for awhile now, since Wakaba liking a boy was apparently the trigger for Komaki becoming the way she is toward Wakaba, and I feel like the most recent chapter is practically confirming this.

I guess Komaki has never heard of bisexuals, or just been told that a person liking someone of the opposite sex one time doesn't mean they'll never be attracted to someone of the same sex, but I guess if she had this manga would've ended in the first chapter lol.

I think the only thing I would add to the comparison between these two series tone and "infamous" scene in Arioto is that before the two MCs start dating Marika is is the one that floats the idea of getting into sex work for money since she feels she is already being sexually harassed at her current job, Aya offers to pay for Marika instead and the logic Marika and Aya agree to is that Marika will "only" be selling herself to another high school girl and that since she's "So straight" it'll be a cakewalk. Of course there's far deeper emotions at play in the LN and learned later down the line but as far as Marika is concerned it's a transaction at first, until she starts to catch feelings.

Hello....I am sorry to randomly butt in out of nowhere like this...But ACTUALLY!!!!

CORRECTION:
Marika from (100 days yuri manga) never pass around that idea, brought or float that idea...Her "2 friends" were the ones who brought that idea up of getting a sugar daddy (It fked up but her friends were probably just joking around) when Marika was lamenting and wondering if there are any good part-time jobs and she/Marika was hesitate at the idea but become somewhat interested at the possible chance of getting 10 grand (10,000 yen) at just having dinner with a sugar daddy [A stupid idea since often it is very dangerous depending on the person]. Marika says if she is going to get sexually harassed anyways may as well make 10 grand which is better (She quit her part-time job due to claims of sexual harassment from the manager).

Aya came onto Marika due to overhearing/Eavesdropping their conversation then being afraid that Marika might actually try to get a sugar daddy (Not sure if Marika was actually planning to or if she was just going along with her friend's joke/suggestion), thinking and being confident in her SEGGS skills lol...

Apologies for my nosy correction XD

No need to apologize! I may have misremembered. What I was trying to point out is that there is an understanding between Marika and Aya about Marika "Selling herself" to Aya and a contract being drawn up between the two that they both agree to, it doesn't justify that Aya went over the line but it is one of many factors that make the "infamous" scene not cut and dry.

Hello....I am sorry to randomly butt in out of nowhere like this...But ACTUALLY!!!!

CORRECTION:
Marika from (100 days yuri manga) never pass around that idea, brought or float that idea...Her "2 friends" were the ones who brought that idea up of getting a sugar daddy (It fked up but her friends were probably just joking around) when Marika was lamenting and wondering if there are any good part-time jobs and she/Marika was hesitate at the idea but become somewhat interested at the possible chance of getting 10 grand (10,000 yen) at just having dinner with a sugar daddy [A stupid idea since often it is very dangerous depending on the person]. Marika says if she is going to get sexually harassed anyways may as well make 10 grand which is better (She quit her part-time job due to claims of sexual harassment from the manager).

Aya came onto Marika due to overhearing/Eavesdropping their conversation then being afraid that Marika might actually try to get a sugar daddy (Not sure if Marika was actually planning to or if she was just going along with her friend's joke/suggestion), thinking and being confident in her SEGGS skills lol...

Apologies for my nosy correction XD

I decided to just pull up a few quotes from the very first chapter to make sure I am not getting anything wrong.

After she’s done with her coffee, she slowly opened her mouth again, "I heard that you would accept compensated dating for 10,000 yen/day."

"Eavesdropping, huh. That's not a good hobby, you know?"
"Girls going out with each other? No way."
"...I did say that. What's so wrong with that? Also, you suck at imitating me."
"You see, I really hate people who are judgmental. Saying 'that can't be' even though they've never tried it."

Fuwa took three bills of 10,000 from the envelope and swayed them in front of my eyes.

"Just with this you can buy that bag, and the rest will be yours, just from being my compensated dating partner."

What's with this witch-like woman and her temptation. Somehow I can see a pair of horns and tail on her, damn, it suits her.

"No, but that's..."

Like a cat watching a ball of yarn, my eyes sway back and forth, following the 30,000 yen.

"For me to sell my body to Fuwa...It can't be."
"At least you won’t be in danger if your partner is someone like me."

Well, that might be true but...

You were right the idea did not originate with Marika, but as the text clearly states by the end Marika's conversation with Aya she has agreed to "Sell her body" and there is a "contract" drawn up between the two in this regard it's very similar to what I have read in Shuukura.

Speaking of which, Does anybody know where I can read a non MTL version of this series? (Not Arioto) I know there are there chapters on Awashi, but my google-fu isn't strong enough. Same goes for Shuukura.

last edited at Jul 29, 2024 9:51AM

rivals my ass these bitches GAY

last edited at Aug 3, 2024 8:05PM

https://amawashigroup.wordpress.com/translations/

Only a few chapters, the main push is ShuuKara.

What I was trying to point out is that there is an understanding between Marika and Aya about Marika "Selling herself" to Aya and a contract being drawn up between the two that they both agree to, it doesn't justify that Aya went over the line but it is one of many factors that make the "infamous" scene not cut and dry.

Yeah, I'd call it a poorly negotiated CNC situation. No safe word and no explicit refusal of safe word. Closer to RACK than SSC, but not very Risk Aware. Aya had one expectation ("I can do whatever I want for the duration") and Marika was just winging it and responding to things, can't even call it a clear expectation.

Could have ended very badly, but they got lucky.

lol did she got jelly of a stuffed toy?

Why are people starting to spoiler Arioto in this, the two series have completely different motifs

i fw this heavy

But like

Komaki is so unappreciative of having MC in her life at all

Why are people starting to spoiler Arioto in this, the two series have completely different motifs

A few reasons, I'd assume:
1. People might not want to read discussion on a different story here
2. They're discussing something that has not been uploaded to Dynasty, people might not want to be spoilered on something they'd maybe like to read in the future.

y’all’re great, I should read/post here more. I like mangadex as a website more, but you have an inspired community here. I read all the posts in this thread.

Kanelel - https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/topics/21278-how-i-lose-bets-with-my-sadistic-gifted-childhood-friend-and-she-steals-all-of-my-firsts-discussion?page=2#forum_post_895336

I think you're approaching this all wrong. It's normal to think “oh this is unrealistic, it would be impractical or immoral or unhealthy or toxic to do this in real life” when you see something like this, but if you want to enjoy this kind of media you have to be able to turn that part of your brain off. You have to enjoy this kind of thing on a completely libidinal, illogical level. You have to ignore your logical brain and go with your gut: “do i find this kind of interaction enjoyable or intriguing?” For a lot of people the answer will be no. That's fine. Different strokes for different folks. That's why we have tags on this website. This one's for the freaks (and frankly it's pretty light so far).

Speaking as someone who feels the same way as you, I do think it’s also valid to have consistent moral standards in all aspects of life, as well as to want media to have a clear pro-social message in a world filled with irl toxic relationships and bad communication. I would say that’s true as long they don’t desire to impose their ethos on the rest of us, but, realistically, they couldn’t do that even if they wanted. Still, you are right that someone continuing to read with the mindset is going to have a bad time.

Something I think that forum residents might not understand is that, in a healthy relationship, you can still have the pretense of more ‘questionable’ dynamics, but within clearly defined limits established by communication both before and after you do anything. You could, for instance, embarrass someone by having them be naked around you while you’re fully dressed, but not do anything truly psychologically damaging because you’ve already established limits beforehand.*

The establishment of limits isn’t normally shown in media in the same way there are not conversations about when it’s okay to kiss the protagonist; the main love interest just knows. While some reading this might think it would be weird to talk in advance about something as innocuous as kissing, that in reality is worth doing. You don’t know what associations or past experiences someone has with kissing (eg past trauma history that involved an aggressor kissing them). Having a single conversation about this at some point also will not ruin the romance factor like many fear.

In fiction, that conversation can nonetheless be safely skipped. The love interest will never make any mistakes the author doesn’t want them to make, instead kissing at the perfect time without ever triggering anyone’s PTSD. Likewise, Komaki seems to know Wakaba well enough to avoid crossing the line where she would be actually traumatized. Instead, Komaki brings out Wakaba’s subconscious desires that even Wakaba wouldn’t know to ask for. Komaki does this without any risk of making mistakes the author doesn’t want her to make.

In real life, to achieve this you would need to have had some kind of green light / yellow light / red light conversation, as well as a disengagement plan ready for if either party asks for it. Contrary to the expectations of some, the conversation could be romantic, sexy, or whatever associations people want to have, but skipping the conversation is just not going to end well. I think it would be nice if more media did depict those kinds of conversations. Even in the most vanilla of relationships, many are unfamiliar with a the specifics of communicating boundaries. With less vanilla practices, there is the importance having clear separation between daily life and when you are taking on those kinds of roles.

“Yuri SM de Futari no Kimochi wa Tsunagarimasu ka?” actually does depict both aspects, where major plot points involve how they communicate and stay receptive to each other’s changing needs in the moment. While I would highly recommend it to anyone interested, it’s naturally a very different type of story. It will not fulfill the same emotional desire as a fictional context where the pretense can be reality. That’s why we have stories like this one where it would be a train wreck if someone tried to imitate it irl.

At least some of us who like this type of story do understand not to reenact it as is, meaning our reading is not out of a desire to ignore consent or communication in real life relationships. I would like to think authors are primarily writing for that audience.

*Media where in universe boundaries are being crossed in a way that leaves people emotionally damaged also has its audience, but that’s another topic. This is clearly a “The MC mostly secretly wants it” story, which is a much more popular type of story.

flowsthead - https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/topics/21278-how-i-lose-bets-with-my-sadistic-gifted-childhood-friend-and-she-steals-all-of-my-firsts-discussion?page=12#forum_post_913831

All three series mentioned play around with consent in different ways, but I think the issue we might be coming up against is in the moment consent versus pre-activity consent. Both Bets and Arioto involve very clear pre-activity consent, and then dubious in the moment consent. In real life, that wouldn't be okay, and the in the moment consent is the most important thing. It's like doing BDSM without a safe word, and it's natural to be bothered by it. But part of the premise of these series is that dynamic, otherwise there is no conflict.

5000 yen, on the other hand, is constantly reconfirming in the moment consent. It has to, because they constantly say no to each other, push each other over their limits, and then step back. They break consent with each other all the time as well, hence the novel mentioning when they kick each other or when they say they'll get angry. It works better than the other two though because they're still communicating about the consent (terribly, but they're trying) and they still have hard lines they try not to cross. In contrast to the other two series, their biggest problem is the pre-activity consent. Basing their relationship on the 5000 yen confuses the issue for them, which is why they mess with their limits all the time.

I haven’t read Arioto, but 5000 yen is interesting because them repeatedly misjudging is part of the story. Neither want to do anything that actually damages the other person, so they're constantly trying to figure that aspect out, as well as how to communicate it (eg, by mentioning one of the rules even if it's a stretch). It's like how, in a standard het romantic comedy, the main love interest could misjudge the right time to kiss the MC as part of plot point, albeit only before finally arriving at the appropriate time for the climatic kissing scene. However, a lot of the plot in 5000 yen revolves around the mistakes, rather than it being some singular event that's the exception to the rule.

Compared to “Yuri SM de Futari no Kimochi wa Tsunagarimasu ka?”, where they even have a safe word (related to melons, ironically), 5000 yen kind of feels realistic in a different way. In 5000 yen, they are doing their best learning a skill no one taught them in a context that they have no experience in, naturally making mistakes in the process.

last edited at Aug 4, 2024 7:50PM

Poor Wakaba. Really being exploited and abused, there.

Yeah she's definitely not into her. She clearly just stumbled into that kiss. And those blushes? Obviously, a fever. She's actually suffering. Poor thing.

Poor Wakaba. Really being exploited and abused, there.

Isn't it so tough to watch?

last edited at Aug 9, 2024 4:21PM

"Really... What are we even doing"
B r u h, sub starts to take self consciousness

Oh yay shiratori! Every translator's favorite thing to translate!

This almost feels like a preview of the future when they've moved past all the angst and into a normal, healthy relationship.