Maby saying her manipulator is too harsh.
Koto just like using some trick to got what her wants.
I hope it wouldn't be rude if l ask you this two question :
1.Do you think Koto know how Erika feels about her?
2.Would Koto let Aya go for her own good?

1. I don't think she does. I think the reason we are not hearing her internal thoughts is that she doesn't have much internal dialogue because of her trauma. That's also why I think she is not manipulative, she acts more instinctively, and she is getting hurt easily because she doesn't understand her own insecurities. I don't think she is a control freak as well. You can be afraid of losing control while still not being manipulative or a control freak. So far, nothing have shown that she have bad motive, that she is manipulative or anything. Koto is reactive, she doesn't plan anything, nor she is thinking too much. She just reacts to thing happening to her, she is passive.

2. Why would she let her go? She needs to resolve her trauma, not let her go. I don't think it would be for Aya's own good. I'm not saying the relationship will works out, but Aya being dumped right now would be devastating to her. Their relationship is not healthy because of Koto's trauma, but she is still providing for her, and they are definitively trying to make it work, even if they are awkward.

I'm mostly talking about the use of evidence. So far we have been shown almost nothing of Koto's interior present-day thoughts, in contrast to both Aya and Erika, where we're given substantial sequences of what they're thinking and feeling about the overall situation. (The extensive thoughts that appear as captions rather than in thought balloons are especially important for understanding those characters and their current state of mind and motivations. But we get very little of that from Koto's POV.)

Sure, there may be some potentially problematic issues for the future that we can infer from Koto's speech and actions--her inability to move on from initially losing Aya, her neediness in the present, etc. But the argument was that Koto is a "yandere manipulator" (or trickster) who has now suddenly changed from when Aya first returned, and I simply don't see any evidence for that.

Well, l think l already gave some "evidence". Looks like l have to explain further so you could understand why l see her this way.

Chapter 3 :
She choosed to stay at hometown while continually refused to see Aya. That's really weird enough to lead me to think if she's waiting something to happen.
She even took some days off from college for this. In chapter 5, her friends asked her whether her business at home be settled.

Chapter 4 :
While Koto can just bring her home without saying those horrible words. Likes she's saying goodbye and breaking up with a kid who literally has no one left except her and Erika. If I was in Aya's situation, I would fucking panic and cry on the spot.
It turns out that was just an act to make Aya confess to her.
How can't that not be manipulative?
Even before holding her hands, Koto felt the need to say "you were so keen on ignoring my first confession".
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU is my first thought. After reading chapter 8.5, things get more clear. Koto just also wanted to get some revenge for Aya refusing to respond her first confession SEVEN YEARS AGO.

Chapter 7 :
You can't buy a smart phone for a teenager just for her to find a part-time job and then tell her to quit after she really found one. It shows you actually don't want her to work but for some reasons you still acted like you support her decision.
So if Koto does persuade Aya to resign the next chapter, like "you don't have to force yourself to work" etc.
My assumption would be proved.

1. I don't think she does. I think the reason we are not hearing her internal thoughts is that she doesn't have much internal dialogue because of her trauma. That's also why I think she is not manipulative, she acts more instinctively, and she is getting hurt easily because she doesn't understand her own insecurities. I don't think she is a control freak as well. You can be afraid of losing control while still not being manipulative or a control freak. So far, nothing have shown that she have bad motive, that she is manipulative or anything. Koto is reactive, she doesn't plan anything, nor she is thinking too much. She just reacts to thing happening to her, she is passive.
   

Glad to know you have put so much credit on her while I'm on the total opposite.
It makes discussion more interesting now.
I do believe she's not as oblivious as her looks like.
In fact, the page 14 & 15 of chapter 8 makes me more convinced that Koto really knows how Erika feels.
And about being a control freak or not, you can see my opinions from my previous post.

1. Why would she let her go? She needs to resolve her trauma, not let her go. I don't think it would be for Aya's own good. I'm not saying the relationship will works out, but Aya being dumped right now would be devastating to her. Their relationship is not healthy because of Koto's trauma, but she is still providing for her, and they are definitively trying to make it work, even if they are awkward.

It just a hypothetical question.
If Aya can make a living in the future and find herself not like Koto anymore. Do you think Koto would let her go?
(I don't know why your answer 2 continues to show number 1 after l checked and edited several times. Please don't mind)

last edited at Mar 12, 2024 10:05PM

I'm mostly talking about the use of evidence. So far we have been shown almost nothing of Koto's interior present-day thoughts, in contrast to both Aya and Erika, where we're given substantial sequences of what they're thinking and feeling about the overall situation. (The extensive thoughts that appear as captions rather than in thought balloons are especially important for understanding those characters and their current state of mind and motivations. But we get very little of that from Koto's POV.)

Sure, there may be some potentially problematic issues for the future that we can infer from Koto's speech and actions--her inability to move on from initially losing Aya, her neediness in the present, etc. But the argument was that Koto is a "yandere manipulator" (or trickster) who has now suddenly changed from when Aya first returned, and I simply don't see any evidence for that.

Well, l think l already gave some "evidence". Looks like l have to explain further so you could understand why l see her this way.

Chapter 3 :
She choosed to stay at hometown while continually refused to see Aya. That's really weird enough to lead me to think if she's waiting something to happen.
She even took some days off from college for this. In chapter 5, her friends asked her whether her business at home be settled.

Chapter 4 :
While Koto can just bring her home without saying those horrible words. Likes she's saying goodbye and breaking up with a kid who literally has no one left except her and Erika. If I was in Aya's situation, I would fucking panic and cry on the spot.
It turns out that was just an act to make Aya confess to her.
How can't that not be manipulative?
Even before holding her hands, Koto felt the need to say "you were so keen on ignoring my first confession".
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU is my first thought. After reading chapter 8.5, things get more clear. Koto just also wanted to get some revenge for Aya refusing to respond her first confession SEVEN YEARS AGO.

Chapter 7 :
You can't buy a smart phone for a teenager just for her to find a part-time job and then tell her to quit after she really found one. It shows you actually don't want her to work but for some reasons you still acted like you support her decision.
So if Koto does persuade Aya to resign the next chapter, like "you don't have to force yourself to work" etc.
My assumption would be proved.

As I suggested, your powers of mind-reading are obviously far superior to mine.

And Koto saying, “I’m not so sure you need to commit so fast” is not even close to being the same as Koto “telling her to quit her job.” Whatever happens in future chapters, a distorted reading like that is the opposite of anything even remotely resembling “evidence.”

And Koto saying, “I’m not so sure you need to commit so fast” is not even close to being the same as Koto “telling her to quit her job.” Whatever happens in future chapters, a distorted reading like that is the opposite of anything even remotely resembling “evidence.”

What are you talking about？
She just got a job interview not already got that job. It would be fucking ridiculous if Koto tell her to quit in that chapter.

Edited：Maybe my reply confused you because I marked it as chapter 7 evidence. But I really did write "tell her to quit after she REALLY FOUND ONE". So it's obvious l think it would happened in next chapter. I do my best to explain it to you. It's not really my fault if you still can't get the point.

last edited at Mar 12, 2024 10:33PM

There are a few authors out there who would totally draw a woman of twenty-something and a kid of fourteen having French kisses and sixty-nines and tribbing. They would be very happy to draw it. In extreme detail!

But Kabocha ain't one of them. Her thing is aaaaaangst, not underage explicit sex.

Haha you're so correct! You sure got that right.
In fact the angst so far is nothing next to the angst that is (probably) coming. I've already got a box of hankies ready just for that.

1. Why would she let her go? She needs to resolve her trauma, not let her go. I don't think it would be for Aya's own good. I'm not saying the relationship will works out, but Aya being dumped right now would be devastating to her. Their relationship is not healthy because of Koto's trauma, but she is still providing for her, and they are definitively trying to make it work, even if they are awkward.

It just a hypothetical question.
If Aya can make a living in the future and find herself not like Koto anymore. Do you think Koto would let her go?
(I don't know why your answer 2 continues to show number 1 after l checked and edited several times. Please don't mind)

We do indeed have a very different vision of Koto. It sure is interesting to see the story unfold week by week and trying to guess where this is going.

To answer your question, I don't see her forcing her to stay for sure, but I can imagine her breaking down if Aya had to leave/wanted to leave. I honestly don't see her as manipulative, or with bad intention. I just see her as an empty shell and being super dull.

I honestly think Koto doesn't know Erika's feelings. If she does, she would probably react in some way or another. Like we all know she's a deep one when it comes to real feelings (but is clumsy in expressing it) especially when it comes from her only best friend.

I wouldn't say Koto is trying to manipulate Erika. The reason why she asked Erika out in previous chapter just show how broken she was after Aya's disappearance, even after years passed by. She tried to fill in the hole with anyone who confessed to her but nevertheless it's all in vain. While asking Erika out was probably her last resort of trying, still in hope that it would turn out different than the rest of her previous exes. How is it different? It's because Koto feel safe to tell Erika anything, without hiding her feelings at all. Surely her exes doesn't know Koto that well but Erika does, and Koto must have known this too. Just not about Erika's actual feelings.

I do actually wonder about Erika's condition after finding out Aya accepted Koto's confession during middle school. How she felt, how she coped up and all. I believe her (mysterious) conversation with Aya in Tanabata day must have a serious impact for the story, if we ever find out in the future chapter that is.

To answer your question, I don't see her forcing her to stay for sure, but I can imagine her breaking down if Aya had to leave/wanted to leave. I honestly don't see her as manipulative, or with bad intention. I just see her as an empty shell and being super dull.

I respect your opinions.
However, I also can't convince myself that she is as innocent as you said.
I can't just pretend chapter 4 doesn't exist.
What Koto did towards a 14yo kid is really horrible. That's the main reason why I have a second thought about Koto's every behavior.

I really do hope their relationship would work out. But I am really afraid Aya would got a broken heart at the end of the road.

To answer your question, I don't see her forcing her to stay for sure, but I can imagine her breaking down if Aya had to leave/wanted to leave. I honestly don't see her as manipulative, or with bad intention. I just see her as an empty shell and being super dull.

I respect your opinions.
However, I also can't convince myself that she is as innocent as you said.
I can't just pretend chapter 4 doesn't exist.
What Koto did towards a 14yo kid is really horrible. That's the main reason why I have a second thought about Koto's every behavior.

You keep saying this, but can you please spell out exactly what Koto said that was so horrible?

If it was the business about being sure Aya loved the present-day Koto, you seem to be putting an extremely nasty reading on those statements that are potentially plausible, but at this point by no means the only way to understand what Koto meant.

last edited at Mar 13, 2024 7:54PM

You keep saying this, but can you please spell out exactly what Koto said that was so horrible?

I just re-read Chapter 4, and it seems fine -- until the very last pages. "I just knew she would respond this way" and looking at a script. Really does make it seem like Koto was being deliberately manipulative of Aya's feelings.

You keep saying this, but can you please spell out exactly what Koto said that was so horrible?

I just re-read Chapter 4, and it seems fine -- until the very last pages. "I just knew she would respond this way" and looking at a script. Really does make it seem like Koto was being deliberately manipulative of Aya's feelings.

I agree that the script is a puzzling detail, and an anomalous one—I can’t think of anything else in the story that is depicted as being a purely symbolic scene, neither a flashback nor a specific memory. Koto’s not just reading from a script either—she’s standing on a stage in a spotlight.

I think that goes back to the scene in Chapter 1 where Aya mischievously says, “I’d like to play a part, Koto. In the script you’ll write.”

Many comments here not unreasonably see Aya as being merely fragile and vulnerable (which she is in the present), but at the time of her disappearance she was definitely in the one-up position in relation to both Koto and Erika (as the object of Koto’s affection and as the block to Erika’s feelings for Koto). And Koto (also not unreasonably) is trying to negotiate feeling like the one in charge while also reverting to being a suitor for Aya’s love.

You keep saying this, but can you please spell out exactly what Koto said that was so horrible?

I think I did explain it to you in detail lol.

If it was the business about being sure Aya loved the present-day Koto, you seem to be putting an extremely nasty reading on those statements that are potentially plausible, but at this point by no means the only way to understand what Koto meant.

You did skip reading my post, didn't you.

Koto acted like she was saying goodbye and breaking up with Aya.

"Me and Erika-chan, we are going back in college soon."
"In this way, l've been able to see your face before that."
Even a14 yo kid knows Koto is saying goodbye.
We All know Koto doesn't really mean it because of the last few page in this fucking chapter.
WTF Maybe you can tell me her intention for deliberately saying those words to a kid who has no one left except her and Erika.

WTF? OK, you’re rude enough that I can see you’re not worth talking to.

This is not towards you but express the feelings which I am so angry towards Koto.
But I do agree it's a waste of time for both of us to continue any discussion.

You know, the more I read what the commenters have to say about Koto, the more I understand why Erika fans want her to find somebody else. Shit, girl has issues, deeper than I thought.

I'm actually pretty fond of Koto.
It's not like I hate her so being picky about her. Just can't turn back on what I have seen. I still like her more than Erika even though I see her as a control freak.

While Aya is like the girl out of my dream, my first love is Koto type of girl.
However, I am not even half clever or mature as Aya back then when I was a teenager.
We literally tortured each other.
That relationship is totally a disaster and not ends very well for both of us.

I'm similar as you. I see same things about Koto and I like her more than Erika. But I like past Koto better than Koto now (as personality).

About your relationship experience, don't worry. It happens to many, sooner or later. I also had some bad experiences. It's learning.

Past Koto is…ok.
If Aya never got spirited away, their relationship would be envied by all.
However, present Koto is a real problem. I just know what Aya is going to suffer in this relationship even without all age gap issues.
It's like l see a ship destined to sink but can't do anything about it.

last edited at Mar 15, 2024 9:13AM

It's like l see a ship destined to sink but can't do anything about it.

It's too early to say Koto and Aya gonna sink imo, we're only at chapter 9 for now. Anything can happen in the future. There might be character development, more drama and twists, and whatever Kabocha wants to do in this manga. I'm looking forward to see how the story gonna go. So far every chapter feels fresh to me that I never get bored in rereading them all over again.

I find the idea of being "spirited away" harrowing. I don't even want to imagine myself nor my loved ones disappearing like that. It's why I can sympathize with Koto and her breakdown. That's a PTSD-inducing event.
This story is something. Excited to read more.

last edited at Mar 19, 2024 7:23AM

A love quadrangle...? Sigh.

So good to see Aya moving forward with a clearer path. I'm also so happy she found someone to relate to with the whole middle school dropout issue.

Koto needs to learn to move forward too instead of stifling Aya's growth out of her own selfish fears.

ugh if the guy is played up as an actual love interest ill be sad.

also i really hate the whole “ooh a boy and a girl are interacting they must date now” thing. let people be friends ffs

Koto seems to be getting more and more posessive and restrictive towards Aya. I worry about how far she'd take things to keep Aya dependent on her. Agreed with @Chikaon that meeting someone who's roughly her age in a similar situation is a good thing, but it does seem to be provoking Koto a lot so we'll see how all this pans out.

Curious to see what role Erika will have to play here.

The anti-Koto people on this forum must have enjoyed this chapter lol.

To be clear, I don't hate Koto. I think her behavior is extremely understandable as someone clearly suffering from PTSD after the girl she loved suddenly disappeared (and presumably died), and that girl suddenly showing up again as a 14-year-old is literally unprecedented and would drive anyone a bit crazy. But that doesn't change the fact that she's not doing well right now and her extreme overprotectiveness and abandonment anxiety are the exact opposite of what Aya needs.

On the other hand, I really liked Aya in this chapter. Her situation is so shitty but she's trying to make the best of it and move forward. I don't know how many people in her circumstances could have done the same.

(Okay I'll admit it I'm kind of shipping Aya and Erika lol.)

"I asked you for help studying because I wanted to be next to you."
"Wow that's crazy, I'm asking this boy for help. Cya later xoxo."

last edited at Apr 6, 2024 11:23PM