Forum › Posts by Genevieve

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

On the other hand, Erika's suffering is nothing compare to Koto since is not that big of deal to give up on someone who obviously can't reciprocate your feelings.

Must be nice to never feel it's that big of deal to give up on your crush—who is also your closest friend—for years. To never dwell with the "what if(s)" situations if things were right. Must be nice, must be really nice.

Let go of someone who doesn't like you back truly isn't that big of deal.
Especially if you have ever be mutually in love, you wouldn't want to waste time on them who obviously can't reciprocate your feelings.

Yeah, apparently using other as a rebound is the only way in this world to move on from someone else.

The only way...? Oh the irony. If that's how you see how moving on should be then let us agree to disagree here. I'll still believe that using others as rebound isn't necessary to actually move on and start anew with someone else who isn't just to simply fill the void, but to really have the connection, to have the chemistry, and to fall in love deeply with another one.

You can't really understand what l am trying to say here, seriously?
I only say that because you said Erika would definitely become high school Koto ver.2 if she did try to move on.
Likes there's no other way than using other as a rebound.

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

Exactly. I stated my points before about Erika's not moving on case is a bit less similar with Koto before but I guess eh, let the Erika haters hate her for being unable to understand how she has been holding on all this time.

I won't deny Erika is not a bad person.
But the inability of moving on from an unrequited love is not mature. It shows you can't accept the fact that not everyone in this world is going to like you back.
At least Koto and Aya had something back then. It's not like I appreciate how Koto deal with the pain of losing her loved one. However, Koto was in a far more painful situation than Erika.
She was mutually in love with the girl of her dreams then lost it out of nowhere. Despite that, Koto did try to move forward.
On the other hand, Erika's suffering is nothing compare to Koto since is not that big of deal to give up on someone who obviously can't reciprocate your feelings.

I just can't believe some people really can't tell the difference between the two.
You can call me Erika hater or whatever you want.
It wouldn't make her more mature in my eyes though.

Let's say if Erika tried to move on to someone else before having closure to her feelings with Koto, doesn't that would just make her the same as a high school Koto ver. 2? Is that really a mature solution then? No, isn't it?

LoL
Yeah, apparently using other as a rebound is the only way in this world to move on from someone else.

Really... It's not Erika's place to tell Aya how Koto suffered through those years. Koto and Aya are together currently so it should be Koto who tells Aya, although it seems she doesn't want to tell Aya the truth. Erika shouldn't meddle about this matter, she knows there's a fine borderline that she shouldn't cross. Trust me, it's not good when someone (even if it's a close friend) meddle on their own into an ongoing relationship that is not theirs.

How can you be so sure?
Maybe Erika is just waiting for the right time to meddle in their relationship.

last edited at Apr 26, 2024 8:23AM

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

Am l the only one here who has noticed Koto did have some days with Aya after the second confession?

We all know Aya got spirited away just a day before Tanabata Festival which would be held on Saturday.
But in chapter 3, Erika mentioned Aya told her "We started dating only LAST WEEK".
(It's quite interesting here because Aya only told Erika "We started dating" , not to exact time when it happened. Erika truly was the one who was peeking at them when the two had their first kiss)

So now the biggest mystery here is, both of them (Aya and Koto) had no intention to tell anyone (include Erika) they are dating now in that seven days(at least).

last edited at Apr 24, 2024 9:12PM

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

This chapter actually says a lot.

Like Koto obviously was fooling herself to believe Aya is still alive.
She just can't accept the possibility that Aya may have been murdered, which is more logical than a 14yo girl run away from home and live on her own.
Makes me doubt Koto would killed herself if Aya was truly confirmed dead seven years ago.
And that means she would have to assume Aya, who is the best girl you can ever imagine in the world, had abandoned her without even bothering leaving a word.
Maybe part of reasons Koto said yes to everyone who confessed to her was not only trying to filled the void Aya had left but also was some kind of revenge to Aya's (assumed) cruelty.

And remember that question she asked Aya in chapter 4?
Koto acknowledges well she is not the same girl Aya accepted confession from seven years ago.
And the way how she deal with this problem is really…let me say is not that admirable.
By just gave a 14 yo kid two choices:
Confess to her who has totally changed or fucking be abandoned (left behind) right away.
Koto obviously didn't want Aya to think through this question.
Because she fears if Aya think this through, she (Aya) might find herself not loves her (Koto) anymore.
So by making Aya confess to her, Aya wouldn't think about this question that seems already be solved.

However, Aya doesn't really know what kind of person Koto is for now. Needless to say whether "loves" her or not.
The only reason Aya resumes dating present Koto is because she is the grown up version of her loved one.
That boy will never be a love rival since the real rival is past Koto.
But if Koto keeps acting like this, Aya would never get a chance to truly be in love with (present) her.

last edited at Apr 23, 2024 11:04AM

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

I loved this chapter. It gave us a look through Koto's grief and it is SO real.

What happened to Koto happens a lot. I had a friend that became a widow at 30 yo and he was just like her.

Even after years, he never managed to date someone, because he was always thinking about his late wife. In his mind, she was perfect, their life would be perfect, their house would be perfect, the children they would have would be perfect, they would never fight, never struggle. How could any living person compete with that? Everyone makes mistakes, every couple argues. But when someone isn't here anymore you can just say "well A would never do that! A wouldn't say that!" and how can anyone prove otherwise?

Idealizing the one you lost is a sure way to be miserable forever.

Grief is no joke.

I can't agree with you more.
That's why while l can (kind of) sympathize with Koto, Erika is totally another story.

I even laughed out loud when someone claimed Erika is the most mature out of the three.
Then how can she not be able to let go the girl who never likes her and even tried to use her as a rebound???

At least Koto did try to move on but sadly found herself couldn't.

The one who really needs to grow up here is Erika.

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

The problem is Erika is the one seeing herself as a villain LOL.
She thought it's some kind of betrayal because she can't help but hope the two, who are both supposed to be her best friend would break up at the end of the road so she can finally get a chance.

And no one knows better than her that she only helped the two to get back together is not out of friendship but in the hope that Koto will move on from Aya since that seven years proved Koto can't move forward on her own.
That's the main reason she wrote that Tanabata wish.

I personally don't feel the same way (see her as a villain) but l truly can't bring myself to care about her suffering.
Unlike Aya's situation, Erika's struggle is really annoying since it's not really that hard to give up on sb who never looks in her direction.
Unfortunately, she doesn't even fucking try.(It's funny that some Erika fans blame Koto for it

last edited at Apr 9, 2024 8:19AM

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

People here are kinda unhinged with their hate lol the first few chapters everyone hated Erika and thought she was horrible for having feelings for Koto and never speaking up, ignoring that she had no way of making a move on a friend grieving the tragic disappearance/death of her SO

Don't you think it's really funny to see their opinions since we can get where these hates come from.

Then after Erika didn't turn out to be the classic villain trying to stir shit, everyone hates Koto, ignoring she is clearly traumatized over losing Aya.

Erika doesn't have to do anything.
As far as she is concerned, Koto/Aya relationship wouldn't last long anyway.
Erika is too kind to be a villain imo though.

And for koto…l think most of the hates she gets is from crazy Erika fans.
They just can't accept how could Koto not choose Erika, who is the best girl in their eyes.
Furthermore, Koto did treat Erika like shit while Erika keeps hopeless in love with her, which they deem Koto doesn't deserve it at all.
Well, it's understandable.

Next on the hate train is Aya probably, after she makes a typical 14 year old blunder, instead of acting as a perfect enlightened human haha

You are so right lol.
I will definitely fucking hate her if it turns out she is a perfect human being.

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

The final page Koto looks like Aya already cheated on her, WTF. That's so out of the line I can't even convince myself things would get better once they have talk.

Koto obviously doesn't want anyone besides Erika to approach her little precious girlfriend.
She already tried to persuade Aya to quit the job while knowing Aya was not getting along with the boy at her work place. I can't predict what Koto would do now Aya has made friend with him.

And Koto clearly prefers Aya to stay at that little apartment she rent and just do nothing but wait for her to come back from college or work.
But there's no way in the world Aya would fucking do that, no matter how much she loves Koto.
It's hard to imagine she would let herself rely on someone ( even is her lover or soulmate ) at that level while she already had experience of being abandoned by her own mom.

She is mature and clever as hell while being a 14 yo girl. Normal middle schooler definitely wouldn't act like that, which makes me wonder what Aya had been through to have that kind of maturity.
However, she can be so oblivious sometimes lol.

last edited at Apr 7, 2024 4:47AM

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

I'm similar as you. I see same things about Koto and I like her more than Erika. But I like past Koto better than Koto now (as personality).

About your relationship experience, don't worry. It happens to many, sooner or later. I also had some bad experiences. It's learning.

Past Koto is…ok.
If Aya never got spirited away, their relationship would be envied by all.
However, present Koto is a real problem. I just know what Aya is going to suffer in this relationship even without all age gap issues.
It's like l see a ship destined to sink but can't do anything about it.

last edited at Mar 15, 2024 9:13AM

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

I'm actually pretty fond of Koto.
It's not like I hate her so being picky about her. Just can't turn back on what I have seen. I still like her more than Erika even though I see her as a control freak.

While Aya is like the girl out of my dream, my first love is Koto type of girl.
However, I am not even half clever or mature as Aya back then when I was a teenager.
We literally tortured each other.
That relationship is totally a disaster and not ends very well for both of us.

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

WTF? OK, you’re rude enough that I can see you’re not worth talking to.

This is not towards you but express the feelings which I am so angry towards Koto.
But I do agree it's a waste of time for both of us to continue any discussion.

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

You keep saying this, but can you please spell out exactly what Koto said that was so horrible?

I think I did explain it to you in detail lol.

If it was the business about being sure Aya loved the present-day Koto, you seem to be putting an extremely nasty reading on those statements that are potentially plausible, but at this point by no means the only way to understand what Koto meant.

You did skip reading my post, didn't you.

Koto acted like she was saying goodbye and breaking up with Aya.

"Me and Erika-chan, we are going back in college soon."
"In this way, l've been able to see your face before that."
Even a14 yo kid knows Koto is saying goodbye.
We All know Koto doesn't really mean it because of the last few page in this fucking chapter.
WTF Maybe you can tell me her intention for deliberately saying those words to a kid who has no one left except her and Erika.

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

To answer your question, I don't see her forcing her to stay for sure, but I can imagine her breaking down if Aya had to leave/wanted to leave. I honestly don't see her as manipulative, or with bad intention. I just see her as an empty shell and being super dull.

I respect your opinions.
However, I also can't convince myself that she is as innocent as you said.
I can't just pretend chapter 4 doesn't exist.
What Koto did towards a 14yo kid is really horrible. That's the main reason why I have a second thought about Koto's every behavior.

I really do hope their relationship would work out. But I am really afraid Aya would got a broken heart at the end of the road.

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

And Koto saying, “I’m not so sure you need to commit so fast” is not even close to being the same as Koto “telling her to quit her job.” Whatever happens in future chapters, a distorted reading like that is the opposite of anything even remotely resembling “evidence.”

What are you talking about?
She just got a job interview not already got that job. It would be fucking ridiculous if Koto tell her to quit in that chapter.

Edited:Maybe my reply confused you because I marked it as chapter 7 evidence. But I really did write "tell her to quit after she REALLY FOUND ONE". So it's obvious l think it would happened in next chapter. I do my best to explain it to you. It's not really my fault if you still can't get the point.

last edited at Mar 12, 2024 10:33PM

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023
  1. I don't think she does. I think the reason we are not hearing her internal thoughts is that she doesn't have much internal dialogue because of her trauma. That's also why I think she is not manipulative, she acts more instinctively, and she is getting hurt easily because she doesn't understand her own insecurities. I don't think she is a control freak as well. You can be afraid of losing control while still not being manipulative or a control freak. So far, nothing have shown that she have bad motive, that she is manipulative or anything. Koto is reactive, she doesn't plan anything, nor she is thinking too much. She just reacts to thing happening to her, she is passive.

Glad to know you have put so much credit on her while I'm on the total opposite.
It makes discussion more interesting now.
I do believe she's not as oblivious as her looks like.
In fact, the page 14 & 15 of chapter 8 makes me more convinced that Koto really knows how Erika feels.
And about being a control freak or not, you can see my opinions from my previous post.

  1. Why would she let her go? She needs to resolve her trauma, not let her go. I don't think it would be for Aya's own good. I'm not saying the relationship will works out, but Aya being dumped right now would be devastating to her. Their relationship is not healthy because of Koto's trauma, but she is still providing for her, and they are definitively trying to make it work, even if they are awkward.

It just a hypothetical question.
If Aya can make a living in the future and find herself not like Koto anymore. Do you think Koto would let her go?
(I don't know why your answer 2 continues to show number 1 after l checked and edited several times. Please don't mind)

last edited at Mar 12, 2024 10:05PM

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

I'm mostly talking about the use of evidence. So far we have been shown almost nothing of Koto's interior present-day thoughts, in contrast to both Aya and Erika, where we're given substantial sequences of what they're thinking and feeling about the overall situation. (The extensive thoughts that appear as captions rather than in thought balloons are especially important for understanding those characters and their current state of mind and motivations. But we get very little of that from Koto's POV.)

Sure, there may be some potentially problematic issues for the future that we can infer from Koto's speech and actions--her inability to move on from initially losing Aya, her neediness in the present, etc. But the argument was that Koto is a "yandere manipulator" (or trickster) who has now suddenly changed from when Aya first returned, and I simply don't see any evidence for that.

Well, l think l already gave some "evidence". Looks like l have to explain further so you could understand why l see her this way.

Chapter 3 :
She choosed to stay at hometown while continually refused to see Aya. That's really weird enough to lead me to think if she's waiting something to happen.
She even took some days off from college for this. In chapter 5, her friends asked her whether her business at home be settled.

Chapter 4 :
While Koto can just bring her home without saying those horrible words. Likes she's saying goodbye and breaking up with a kid who literally has no one left except her and Erika. If I was in Aya's situation, I would fucking panic and cry on the spot.
It turns out that was just an act to make Aya confess to her.
How can't that not be manipulative?
Even before holding her hands, Koto felt the need to say "you were so keen on ignoring my first confession".
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU is my first thought. After reading chapter 8.5, things get more clear. Koto just also wanted to get some revenge for Aya refusing to respond her first confession SEVEN YEARS AGO.

Chapter 7 :
You can't buy a smart phone for a teenager just for her to find a part-time job and then tell her to quit after she really found one. It shows you actually don't want her to work but for some reasons you still acted like you support her decision.
So if Koto does persuade Aya to resign the next chapter, like "you don't have to force yourself to work" etc.
My assumption would be proved.

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

Do you think Koto wouldn't "suggest" Aya to quit the job?

I don't know what Koto would or wouldn't do about that--I'm not a mind-reader or a fortune teller.

It's not like I hate your opinions just because you disagreed with me.
The next chapter might reveal this. Whether my assumption is right or wrong, we'll see.

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

Except Aya now has a part-time job.

That just proves things are not going well as
Koto's plan.

This whole post seems to be a lot of (at best) weakly justified inferences about Koto’s motivations.

Right, you just choose to forget she fucking pull a long face after Aya got a job interview invited by Kumagaya in chapter 7.
Do you think Koto wouldn't "suggest" Aya to quit the job?

last edited at Mar 12, 2024 11:12AM

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

I don't feel like are reading the same manga...

I'm glad we can have some serious discussions of this.

I think Koto just had a strong PTSD because of Aya's disappearance and has difficulties whenever she cannot control the situation.

Agreed. That's why she gives me the impression that she would do whatever it takes to control it.

Yet, she has never hinder Aya in any way. She lodge her, pay for her expenses and don't ask much in return. She does have issues to be addressed for sure, and she does have a problem expressing herself. I bet that she was so closed off for many years, that even Aya's reappearance was not enough to trigger her coming out of her shell. And it's totally logic in a way. Aya disappeared magically, why wouldn't she disappeared again the same way?

Maby saying her manipulator is too harsh.
Koto just like using some trick to got what her wants.
I hope it wouldn't be rude if l ask you this two question :
1.Do you think Koto know how Erika feels about her?
2.Would Koto let Aya go for her own good?

Same goes for Erika. Her internal dialogue is quite harsh, but regardless of what she is thinking, her actions speaks for herself and she is giving good advice and helping Aya. I do think when cares about her, but she is conflicted about the fact that Koto can't let her go. Her jealousy is probably triggering those bad though, but in all honesty, she is being a good friends and is doing more good than what her internal dialogue is suggesting.

I don't ever consider Erika is a bad person, not even once. If anything, she is the one who has the kindest spirit out of the three. She sincerely sees Aya as a friend. So that's the main reason why she also tortured by her "selfish" thought imo.

I'm not saying those characters are perfects, far from that. But I feel like the story is more about Erika and Koto resolving their personal issues, rather than it is about Aya finding her way. She is honestly doing fine and is the more adult of the three...

Tbh I wouldn't be interested at the beginning if those characters are perfect…

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

Tbh Koto looks like a totally different person to me in this goddamn chapter.
l mean, Koto has been manipulating Aya since the day she came back.
( chapter 3:refused to see her but also didn't go back to college because she knew Aya would contact her eventually.
chapter 4:......damn this woman.
chapter 7:bought her a smartphone and let her find a part-time job as her wish. Knowing there's no possibility she would get hired. By doing this, Aya will acknowledge she can't live without her now.)

What makes her suddenly change her mind to be this kind and thoughtful girlfriend?
Because the talk she had with Erika?
l can't help but feel a bit forced in her character.

However, maybe Koto knows Aya well enough that there's no other way to erase Aya's fear except being honest.
That shows her character not really change. Koto still the yandere manipulator I think she is.

And for poor Erika, to think she doesn't even have one date of her goddamn pathetic life just to wait Koto to move on. She really needs to learn how to let go of the person who obviously can't reciprocate her feelings.
After all, that's no guarantee Koto would choose her even if she breaks up with Aya at the end of the road.
What if she falls in love with someone else instead?What are you going to do then?
Just wait them to break up again? Oh, Koto got married. That's ok. There's possibility they would divorce, right……
When's it gonna end?( not like l care though, Erika can die for her if she wants lol )

To me, that's nothing wrong for not choosing the person you don't like in romantic way, no matter how amazing they actually are.
Like I wouldn't want Erika even if Aya doesn't exist.

last edited at Mar 12, 2024 1:51AM

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

I think there's a misunderstanding here. This manga isn't going to go into any real questioning about sex or not.

I think it is just a hypothetical question to show how hypocritical they truly are. They absolutely can side with Erika and hope one day the two would break up so Erika can have her chance. BUT THEY DON'T JUST ADMIT IT.

Instead, they pretend to care Aya's situation all of a sudden while this chapter is mainly talking about Erika and her hopeless love.

It already vaguely alluded to it and it was just to show how immature Aya still is compared to Koto, because this isn't something she thinks about, while Koto can have that kind of thought. And that's where it'll stop.

I'm not sure about that. Koto does seem like that kind of people who would force herself on Aya if she dare to leave or break up with her.

I'll bet this manga will never go into the hard question of sex, because it's NOT what it's about. It's about a triangle, how to break it and how the characters will handle it. Also, supernatural.

The author actually never drew kiss scene before this subject. It's too early to make that conclusion imo.

last edited at Feb 15, 2024 4:20AM

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

For chapter 8.5:
It has been clear now Koto's motive to treat Aya that (fucking horrible) way in chapter 4 was because she also wanted to get some revenge.

She just can't let go of the fact Aya didn't respond to her first confession SEVEN YEARS AGO (Damn this woman. You get stabbed by your supposed best friend in the middle of the road, to think she willing to risk long-time friendship regardless how you feel, then you have to say yes to the girl you don't like in romantic way immediately or you would be cursed???)

I sincerely hope Aya would run away from that woman since she must OWE her a lot for all spirited away thing.

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

What are you talking about? Of there is another choice. She can finish her education. They live in Japan not some civil war torn country.
Yeah, let the 14 year old make some adult friends, great idea.

Like l said.
They don't really give a fuck about Aya's interest.
All their focus is on when Aya is going to fuck off so Erika can finally have her chance with Koto.

It's useless to argue with them.

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

The new character, the lady who helped Aya when she fainted and later helped her get a job, is most certainly going to play a big role. I think she has taken a liking to Aya. She may be just what Aya needs in her life, something refreshing and new — someone who will look at her as a 21-year-old and treat her as an equal, not as a child who needs protecting.

Aya is a child. She is only an adult on paper.

Does Aya really want to be treated as an adult? (She called kumagaya お姉さん in chapter 7 )
Why is Aya so eager to find a part-time job?
They just don't fucking care.

That's why I really hate some people who side with Erika.
All they care is when the two are going to break up so Erika can finally be with Koto. Ignoring the fact that Koto might not choose Erika even if Aya doesn't exist at this manga from the start.

Only see Aya as an OBSTACLE infuriated me so much that I can't help but start to dislike Erika though is not her fault at all.

last edited at Feb 14, 2024 6:34AM

Genevieve
joined Oct 24, 2023

Tbh, l don't know if l should support Aya x Koto pairing now.
Adult Koto never really did anything good for Aya since the poor girl came back, not even a minute. All she fucking cares is whether Aya is gonna leave or not.

I know she has the "trauma" but that shouldn't be the excuse for not helping Aya to overcome the situation the poor kid faces now.

Maybe Koto also has a hidden agenda. The more Aya can't blend into the society, the more she won't leave her. The more Aya can't live without her, the more she won't break up with her.
If my guess is true, then Koto truly doesn't deserve Aya at all.

last edited at Feb 12, 2024 10:24PM