This makes for an interesting contrast to This Isekai Maid is Forming a Union. I'm not sure how the protagonists of each series would feel about each other.

link to that? that title sounds very interesting

GOD THIS IS SO FUCKING GAY!♡!♡

last edited at Mar 31, 2023 11:30PM

ooooh! what is to become of this wavering-to-the-side plot that the MC can slightly predict? i am excited to see where all of this goes. despite all the treatment this running villainess isekai trope is getting, i am patiently anticipating the next chapter and want to know more. MORE I SAY!

I only made this a count to comment on like a really really good story "Hana Ni Arashi" and now I've found something that can make my day. You guys fight a lot, I like to read lol.

Diana is not a yandere, just a shonen protagonist who's getting deprotagonized and doesn't know how to deal with it.

that's such a sick idea, i love genre play like this.

although, wasn't she an otomege protagonist, not a shounen one?

Yea, she probably is, it's just that as people have pointed out, the whole premise of the original game was more action-y than they usual otoge setup, so I kinda see Diana as an action heroine first. :-)

Wouldn't be an Isekai without a love triangle where one girl is inevitably going to get hurt. Especially since most of these writers never have the balls to go with the polyamory ending

Right... It takes balls to fizzle drama and tension...

I love this one so much, especially that our protag is steadily building a harem?

Wouldn't be an Isekai without a love triangle where one girl is inevitably going to get hurt. Especially since most of these writers never have the balls to go with the polyamory ending

Right... It takes balls to fizzle drama and tension...

Unironically yes actually, it does take some balls to choose an ending where everyone is happy and discard certain plot points and character directions. It also takes skill to write through the drama of writing how each person would grapple with the idea of sharing, especially when this looks more like Natori's harem than a poly.

I just relate to the prince so hard right now seeing someone observe those small blushes and moods in the story makes them stronger to me

I do hope Diana doesn't end up becoming the new villain. That happens far too often in villaness-focused stories.

Wouldn't be an Isekai without a love triangle where one girl is inevitably going to get hurt. Especially since most of these writers never have the balls to go with the polyamory ending

Right... It takes balls to fizzle drama and tension...

Pardon me for jumping in, but I feel there may be a miscommunication here. While it may be true that some of us simply want an ending where everyone is happy and would take whatever leads to that result, I think many people who ask for a poly ending to a story are looking for something deeper than a typical harem ending. We aren't looking for dozens/hundreds of chapters of potential romantic partners fighting over the protagonist just to end it abruptly with "well, why can't we all share her together?" A proper polyamorous story involves all partners coming to love each other, not just multiple people all loving the same one person. It takes work to do that properly.

Pardon me for jumping in, but I feel there may be a miscommunication here. While it may be true that some of us simply want an ending where everyone is happy and would take whatever leads to that result, I think many people who ask for a poly ending to a story are looking for something deeper than a typical harem ending. We aren't looking for dozens/hundreds of chapters of potential romantic partners fighting over the protagonist just to end it abruptly with "well, why can't we all share her together?" A proper polyamorous story involves all partners coming to love each other, not just multiple people all loving the same one person. It takes work to do that properly.

Exactly that, with a small caveat: I don't agree with the last sentence.
A polycule doesn't have to have everyone involved with everyone to be "proper". And a polyam story that handles the relation between the metamours who have mutual partners but a platonic relationship with each other can be just as great and takes just as much work to be done properly as one where everyone gets with everyone.

DIfferent flavors of polyamory but all delicious.

Wouldn't be an Isekai without a love triangle where one girl is inevitably going to get hurt. Especially since most of these writers never have the balls to go with the polyamory ending

More writers have the balls to go poly than to have a clear-cut ending where one love interest is picked and the rest are cleanly kept away without wishy washy ambiguity.

Please tell me where this supposed trove of poly stories is, because I'd love to read that.

Though based on you saying wishy washy ambiguity, I think you're talking about something completely different.

They're talking about harem endings. And they're correct. If you count harem as poly, which we seem to be considering we're calling one girl having two girlfriends who have absolutely zero interest in one another "poly", harems are far more common in the isekai genre and adjacent genres than monogamous relationships. The "wishy-washy ambiguity" part comes from the fact that the protagonist doesn't usually officially end up with any of the countless characters in love with them, so that the reader self-inserting can fantasise about the protagonist ending up with their particular favourite love interest.

And that's why this is such a point of contention. I think poly-enjoyers might have the wrong idea that poly itself is hated, but in this thread harems and poly are being fully conflated. Harems are, narratively speaking, disgusting. They're Mary Sue bullshit, bad writing that objectifies women for the purpose of fulfilling people's gross self-insert fantasies. I get that there's a market for self-insert fiction, a massive one at that, but harem fantasies in particular reduce women to being property. Every girl in a harem story exists for the sole purpose of falling heads over heels for the self-insert, usually as soon as they meet and for no discernible reason other than "they were nice to me once". I loathe it. Absolutely, positively hate it. It is literally the single biggest problem with the ACG fiction bubble. But it fucking sells. It sells incredibly well, and for bigger series it sells figurines and merch as people chase their waifus. So it just continues proliferating and my hatred of it continues growing.

All of that to say, this is why I desperately hope this manga doesn't go down that path. I'm not opposed to reading about open relationships. But you will never see any of the non-MC characters in these stories having their own relationships. Not with each other, and not with third parties who aren't involved with the MC either. In my eyes, that is absolutely not poly. Because all of the characters exist only to serve the MC's desires, and have no desires of their own. There's nothing romantic about that, and it's certainly not a progressive depiction of relationships.

why is there an argument in the comments over a running gag

Because this forum is exclusively for people who are extremely fun at parties.

last edited at Apr 1, 2023 5:23PM

This makes for an interesting contrast to This Isekai Maid is Forming a Union. I'm not sure how the protagonists of each series would feel about each other.

link to that? that title sounds very interesting

https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/this-isekai-maid-is-forming-a-union/list?title_no=699696

It's surprisingly good.

Anything could be a weapon if you are the one holding it. I’m talking to you Diana lol. The prince is definitely in for a treat of some good fucking yuri food if he doesn’t become a villain. The love triangle is kinda hard for me since I’m a bit used to the “Heroine and villainess” trope and not the “Secretary and her boss” trope. Still good tho.

Honestly, the Villainess doesn't get my heart racing or anything, she's a little too... porcelain perfect? She has very little texture to me. Diana is a much better choice at the moment.

Lapis is a pretty shallow character at the moment but I feel like that's an intentional result of the fact that she's wearing a metaphorical porcelain mask 99% of the time to conceal her true intentions and feelings.

Wouldn't be an Isekai without a love triangle where one girl is inevitably going to get hurt. Especially since most of these writers never have the balls to go with the polyamory ending

Right... It takes balls to fizzle drama and tension...

I mean I can't remember the last love triangle I read that actually had either of those things. It's almost always transparently obvious what the endgame will be or it all amounts to vague status-quo-is-god waffling in the end.

Ono.. the love triangle shows up!

IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN MEEEEEEEEEEEE, IT SHOULD HAAAVEE BEEEEN MEEEEEE

Diana is not a yandere, just a shonen protagonist who's getting deprotagonized and doesn't know how to deal with it.

that's such a sick idea, i love genre play like this.

although, wasn't she an otomege protagonist, not a shounen one?

why is there an argument in the comments over a running gag

you've been here since 2014 and you're still wondering that? XD intense, multi-page forum arguments over pedantic shit is a cornerstone of Dynasty culture.

oh my god I just noticed you can see when a person joined this forum(website?)

Wouldn't be an Isekai without a love triangle where one girl is inevitably going to get hurt. Especially since most of these writers never have the balls to go with the polyamory ending

Right... It takes balls to fizzle drama and tension...

I mean I can't remember the last love triangle I read that actually had either of those things. It's almost always transparently obvious what the endgame will be or it all amounts to vague status-quo-is-god waffling in the end.

No kidding

Pardon me for jumping in, but I feel there may be a miscommunication here. While it may be true that some of us simply want an ending where everyone is happy and would take whatever leads to that result, I think many people who ask for a poly ending to a story are looking for something deeper than a typical harem ending. We aren't looking for dozens/hundreds of chapters of potential romantic partners fighting over the protagonist just to end it abruptly with "well, why can't we all share her together?" A proper polyamorous story involves all partners coming to love each other, not just multiple people all loving the same one person. It takes work to do that properly.

Seconding this

Exactly that, with a small caveat: I don't agree with the last sentence.
A polycule doesn't have to have everyone involved with everyone to be "proper". And a polyam story that handles the relation between the metamours who have mutual partners but a platonic relationship with each other can be just as great and takes just as much work to be done properly as one where everyone gets with everyone.

DIfferent flavors of polyamory but all delicious.

Seconding this as well

They're talking about harem endings. And they're correct. If you count harem as poly, which we seem to be considering we're calling one girl having two girlfriends who have absolutely zero interest in one another "poly", harems are far more common in the isekai genre and adjacent genres than monogamous relationships. The "wishy-washy ambiguity" part comes from the fact that the protagonist doesn't usually officially end up with any of the countless characters in love with them, so that the reader self-inserting can fantasise about the protagonist ending up with their particular favourite love interest.

And that's why this is such a point of contention. I think poly-enjoyers might have the wrong idea that poly itself is hated, but in this thread harems and poly are being fully conflated. Harems are, narratively speaking, disgusting. They're Mary Sue bullshit, bad writing that objectifies women for the purpose of fulfilling people's gross self-insert fantasies. I get that there's a market for self-insert fiction, a massive one at that, but harem fantasies in particular reduce women to being property. Every girl in a harem story exists for the sole purpose of falling heads over heels for the self-insert, usually as soon as they meet and for no discernible reason other than "they were nice to me once". I loathe it. Absolutely, positively hate it. It is literally the single biggest problem with the ACG fiction bubble. But it fucking sells. It sells incredibly well, and for bigger series it sells figurines and merch as people chase their waifus. So it just continues proliferating and my hatred of it continues growing.

All of that to say, this is why I desperately hope this manga doesn't go down that path. I'm not opposed to reading about open relationships. But you will never see any of the non-MC characters in these stories having their own relationships. Not with each other, and not with third parties who aren't involved with the MC either. In my eyes, that is absolutely not poly. Because all of the characters exist only to serve the MC's desires, and have no desires of their own. There's nothing romantic about that, and it's certainly not a progressive depiction of relationships.

I feel like the issue here is partially of definition, yeah.

---

Setting aside like, connotative implications and typical tropes, I would say a Harem is a setup where multiple characters are interested in a monogamous relationship with a singular focal character, and compete with one another for the focal character's interest. (A Love Triangle in the typical sense, is merely a very small harem of two.)

Now connotatively, as you said, that usually entails a self-insert wish-fulfillment slant with a bland protagonist, an open-ended ending (though every once in a while there has been the option for First Girl Wins), and a general lack of development or respect for the love interest characters outside of their direct (and often rather shallow) relationship with the focal character.

I do not care for Harem stories as a rule, but Hamefura, (the first season, anyway) along with having a rare bisexual harem, did show it could be done well without most of the above bad tropes. The characters all had decently-established lives and interests outside of their dynamic with Katarina, while Katarina herself, being a decidedly eccentric sort, easily averted the typical Cardboard Cutout Protagonist pitfall. Most importantly to me, at least, one of the things I liked was that even as the characters treated one another as rivals competing for Katarina's attention, they also still generally felt like genuine friends who still cared about and respected each other first and foremost. (Except for everyone ganging up on Geordo, but that was okay because Geordo's the worst.) The first season did wind up in that open-ended state, admittedly, but it still managed to do so in a way that felt satisfying rather than frustrating, since who Katarina wound up with wasn't really the core focus of hers or any of the other characters' arcs. (And besides... in hindsight, that's a much better place than the second season left off.)

I would still define it as a harem because it was still fundamentally monogamous in its framing, and the characters were actually friendly rivals, but still rivals. But at least, it is proof that despite the typical trashy tropes that plague the vast majority, the genre concept isn't inherently terrible and can be done well. That being said, with how Season 2 poured all that goodwill down the drain, and with how I have seen no sign of any other shows or manga breaking that trend, yeah I'm still with you on not caring for the genre as a whole.

---

Meanwhile, Polyamory can take a variety of shapes, not always with a clear focal point individual. Sometimes it's a perfect lattice where everyone involved is in a relationship with everyone else, or sometimes, as Giftnova pointed out, there can be metamours, people who aren't directly romantic with each other but are still friends or at least on friendly terms and happy with sharing their mutual partner or partners. My step-brother is in a poly relationship that resembles a line more than anything else, with metamours a few times removed. I myself am in a relationship that is probably more akin to a "harem" structure, with my girlfriend also dating my two best friends. The key difference, IMO, is in the distinction between metamours or rivals. We're all cool with the situation.

(And one can have a plot where the focal point is in a relationship with more than one of the other characters, but it is still a harem rather than being polyamorous... that would just be cheating.)

---

Bringing this all back around to the original topic, I would currently define this manga as a love triangle, or basically a small harem, yeah. I think it has the potential to be a good one, yes, since both Diana and Lapis both have their own conflicts outside of their dynamic with Natori. (Diana and her relationship with her Might Makes Right attitude, and Lapis's whole brewing scheme, even if the exact details and motive are yet unclear.) Natori herself currently rides the line between being a self-insert and a distinct character, kinda underdeveloped like a typical bland harem/isekai protagonist, but still some distinctive traits and a solid motivation in her anxiety and need for validation. It's still too early to really say if this will improve further, but at least at the level it's currently at, I would rate it above a typical schlock harem handling, but still needing room to grow to match or possibly surpass the small handful of actually good harem/love triangle plots out there.

I guess the big thing is, when we poly enjoyers say we hope this turns into a poly relationship, on the most surface level it's hoping that Natori can be in a relationship with Diana and Lapis both, yes, but on a deeper level, it is hoping that the dynamic between Diana and Lapis will also be explored and shifted in a positive direction, whether that be a full romantic relationship as well to close the triangle, or simply as metamours. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that that is the direction this is going, so I certainly understand your reservations, but that's still what I'd like to see.

Because this forum is exclusively for people who are extremely fun at parties.

Yeah ^^;

last edited at Apr 5, 2023 7:08PM

Height difference was invented for head pats

Height difference was invented for head pats

Preach.

Natori is so strong. If that happened to me I would die on the spot.

Diana is not a yandere, just a shonen protagonist who's getting deprotagonized and doesn't know how to deal with it.

that's such a sick idea, i love genre play like this.

although, wasn't she an otomege protagonist, not a shounen one?

Yea, she probably is, it's just that as people have pointed out, the whole premise of the original game was more action-y than they usual otoge setup, so I kinda see Diana as an action heroine first. :-)

Reminds me of the game in the backstory of Endo and Kobayashi. The Otomege protag is also basically a shounen hero.

Good job, Lapis-sama.