Forum › The Sheep Princess in Wolf's Clothing discussion

__fujiwara_no_mokou_and_houraisan_kaguya_touhou_drawn_by_ootsuki_wataru__abfa356e1066a80ad94144d78ad40e5f%20-%20copia
joined Sep 22, 2019

"There is a girl you love and who loves you back ? Too bad, go spread your legs for this guy you never met."

I hate and despise this. Way to ruin a manga that had managed to make everything nice so far.

At this point, this will leave a sour taste on the whole story, no matter how the rest of the characters fare. Unless they pull a royal divorce or something similar, but I'm not getting my hopes up, there's basically zero chance of that happening.

Why would you want the royals to have a divorce? Even if the origin of their relationship is kind of fucked up, with both of them being forced to marry a complete stranger due to their stations, they actually managed to build a genuinely loving relationship from that.

The fact that the queen was forced to break up her relationship with the tailor was a tragedy, but wishing to have her current relationship crumble yet again seems counterproductive to me. That would just be yet another tragedy and wouldn't actually "fix" anything.

Couple_under_the_stars
joined Nov 7, 2022

The fact that the queen was forced to break up her relationship with the tailor was a tragedy, but wishing to have her current relationship crumble yet again seems counterproductive to me. That would just be yet another tragedy and wouldn't actually "fix" anything.

Because, in the current state, the author is making a statement that a good story (in the happy romance genre at least, as drama and tragedies would follow different rules) can use forced marriage (with all the heteronormativity associated, and the dark implications of being forced to bear someone's children without having a say) and it is perfectly fine for the characters to follow that plot line. It's also directly supporting that forcing someone to break up with their beloved and become the wife and mate of someone they never met is fine, "as long as they are happy in the end".

Honestly, I find the inclusion, and in particular portraying in a good light, of that situation highly problematic and disturbing. That's why I'm suggesting a divorce plot direction would correct this - it doesn't have to be a tragedy, just both characters agreeing that their marriage was not out of love but political interests, and that they would both be happier if they separated and were free to pursue their true love. Considering the queen and the dressmaker still see each other and, indeed, seem to still love each other, that would be a perfect solution to get a happy ending for everyone in-universe; while narratively, the story would distance itself from the positive portrayal of forced marriage, without shifting its tone by hurting the characters.

But as I said, I'm not holding out on hope. I feel that the author is making this situation seem okay, and that the queen will just continue to accept her role as a victim of abusive authority. I'd love to be proven wrong, obviously. But right now, it's making me very uncomfortable, and I'm actually considering whether I should support an author writing such stories, even if the rest of the story (e.g., regarding Momo) is happier.

joined Jan 14, 2020

Now we see if Bi-mom can accept Lesbian daughter and let her live happily or if the drama finally finds a way into this.

It's less about accepting whether the daughter is lesbian and more about accepting (or not) that your royal child doesn't want to partake in political alliances.

Akagami no Shiraryukihime is het, with a male prince in love with a commoner girl, but has the same issue: she's a commoner. Even though Zen is the second prince, That's Not Done. Usually, anyway. Much of the manga is very, very, very slowly maneuvering things so that Shirayuki is a plausibly acceptable wife, in the eyes of the first prince/king who is not inclined to romanticism, and whose approval is necessary for his younger brother's marriage (short of running away to some other country).

I expect this manga will end just handwaving away the point.

Reimari2%20-%20crop
joined Sep 7, 2016

Author really just combo'ed the first explicit men appearance along with arranged marriages :v

Oof, that reminded me of how some people just went ballistic when dudes showed up in yuri mangas...

last edited at Jan 26, 2023 2:25AM

Yuibless
joined Jan 30, 2017

Oh, comp-het in my fluffy yuri manga. How nice!

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chaosOrchestrator
joined Jul 10, 2015

Wow way to absolutely terrify Aki with that note. Did the queen mean to do that or dies she not realize how threatening that sounds? I'm 85% sure she's not going to try to separate them so maybe this was something of a test? If this scares her off, then she wasn't committed or brave enough for the queen to consider her worthy of Momo, but if she's able to face the queen under these circumstances the relationship is worth preserving.

Madoromicloseup
joined Mar 6, 2018

The introduction of males seems to be making a lot of people forget that the hyena princess was also a marriage candidate for Momo. I think it's less 'marry a guy' and more 'marry a neighboring royal'.

Though, seeing as most of this author's previous works are het, this may or may not be the start of a het spiral.

Screenshot%202024-01-18%20181127
joined Jun 21, 2021

The introduction of males seems to be making a lot of people forget that the hyena princess was also a marriage candidate for Momo. I think it's less 'marry a guy' and more 'marry a neighboring royal'.

Though, seeing as most of this author's previous works are het, this may or may not be the start of a het spiral.

or maybe it's about producing an heir and then we get into the fun idea/possibilities of certain female hyenas and their pseudopenises >;3c

though that's prob a bit too far into furry territory for this particular work xD

joined Mar 19, 2022

Yay, I feel sick now! Hopefully this shit goes away quickly.

Capture
joined Aug 12, 2021

gonna be honest I'm a bit surprised at the sheer reaction that some people are having like, I genuinely kind of expected this exact issue to be part of the story since the very start because arranged marriages with the purpose of having heirs is kind of inherent to royalty.

Like a true love story like this and any other in which one of the people in the relationship is of royalty will inevitably have to deal with the fact that you kind of just don't have that option as a member of royalty. And like sorry but the fact that the same thing happened to her mom and she managed to find a semblance of happiness even though she couldn't be together with her true love is not a sign of how the author thinks comphet is better than true love it is just a way for the mother not to be completely miserable for the rest of her life.

Yeah she's come to like her husband well enough because what other choice does she have really? Hate him terribly for having to marry him when he's not even responsible for tearing her and her love apart and he's in the exact same situation having to marry someone he barely knew because that's just what happens if you're royalty.

This is pretty explicitly being shown to be a bad situation that both the queen and king just had to deal with because that's how it is for royalty and that is also exactly the issue that Momo is in right now and the story will most likely try to resolve in a way that allows for Momo and Aki to actually be together happily instead of having to compromise like everyone else before them has had to.

last edited at Jan 26, 2023 8:52AM

Pinekon
joined Jan 10, 2022

Yeaa... This plot point was the first thing I thought about after reading the first chapter. Because it's the typical situation that occurs in this type of story. I think it's done that way on purpose, to show a situation of "what if". I also don't think it'll go that way. Like, the mom or even mom and dad would learn from their "mistake" and happiness. Or maybe they'll be softened enough to be convinced. Or hey, maybe we'll have something more exciting happen. Regardless I don't think they'll just settle for "Oh okay I guess we're done have fun marrying a random dude MoMo".

Anyway, after reading the chapter, I had a blast reading all those over-the-top reactions. So just for that I hope this plot goes on for a bit.

Ykn1
joined Dec 20, 2018

Weirdly enough, I don't remember seeing this kind of outrage when we got pretty much the same reveal in Adachi and Shimamura, despite that one taking place in modern Japan instead of a fictional monarchy, although I guess it helps that in that case it affected the mother of one half of the side couple and not the main couple.

joined May 3, 2014

Yeaa... This plot point was the first thing I thought about after reading the first chapter. Because it's the typical situation that occurs in this type of story. I think it's done that way on purpose, to show a situation of "what if". I also don't think it'll go that way. Like, the mom or even mom and dad would learn from their "mistake" and happiness. Or maybe they'll be softened enough to be convinced. Or hey, maybe we'll have something more exciting happen. Regardless I don't think they'll just settle for "Oh okay I guess we're done have fun marrying a random dude MoMo".

Anyway, after reading the chapter, I had a blast reading all those over-the-top reactions. So just for that I hope this plot goes on for a bit.

I call this type of plot, “the stupid dick getting in the way” because it’s totaly centred on the idea of separating the Lesbian couple by forcing a dick in between :/ in this case ain’t an jely boyfriend or an male character liking the girl and trying to get her, this is that one thing that I didn’t look forward the moment I started reading this story, “when will the forced marriage became a drama for the two?”

and it does bother me that the example the Queen has was the fact she end up likeing that dick in the end LOL!

P.S: sorry for reducing the King in the story to just a dick, since for me it just buzz the hell out of me how happy he is to BET witch dick will make his Daughter happy! given that he looks like he has NO BLOODY IDEA (he is to happy looking at pictures and making such an inportant decision with a bloody smile) how that prince can make MoMo life hell, imagine forcing yourself to get pregnant to a man you hate?, cuz realisticaly that can happen in arranged marriage :/ (ok done venting my IRL Lesbian frustration XD)

joined May 3, 2014

Weirdly enough, I don't remember seeing this kind of outrage when we got pretty much the same reveal in Adachi and Shimamura, despite that one taking place in modern Japan instead of a fictional monarchy, although I guess it helps that in that case it affected the mother of one half of the side couple and not the main couple.

maybe because it’s all about how the story set up the idea that the Queen grew to like the men and it’s portrayed like a positive thing!, you don’t do that in an yuri story without making readers hate that idea! also smells a little like NTR! nothing pisses yuri reader more that the guy winning the “women” through forced marriage WHILE the EX-girlfriend is an bloody happy hanger talking with a smile about her EX child(that was the result of forced marriage)

But I guess the author knows how to set up this kind of drama, that was 10/10 way to make readers blood boild, let’s hope out happy couple doesn’t end up like the Queen hopes :/ tho I’m a little scared since I heard the author does write het and might put this as an ending 0.0

46-75
joined Jun 25, 2019

tho I’m a little scared since I heard the author does write het and might put this as an ending 0.0

Setup the whole story as fluffy as it is to end on that would be a prime example on how to not write a story and so far, it doesn't seem the author is bad at that.

nothing pisses yuri reader more that the guy winning the “women” through forced marriage WHILE the EX-girlfriend is an bloody happy hanger talking with a smile about her EX child(that was the result of forced marriage)

What ex-child ? What does that even mean ? Momo is born from the king and the queen, not from the queen and the tailor. And the forum is so far the only place i've seen peoples being pissed.

Couple_under_the_stars
joined Nov 7, 2022

But I guess the author knows how to set up this kind of drama, that was 10/10 way to make readers blood boild

Just the prospect of Momo being forced to marry someone else would have been enough to make people angry, if that was the purpose. The queen being in the same situation and happy with the arrangement while her ex is still there as a hanger-on is just pouring oil on the fire for no purpose other than making the situation look okay.

Maybe the goal was to make this arc feel like a genuine threat because "if the author did it once, it could happen again", but that's a very tasteless way to do it, because the queen is still a character, even if not the main one, and it's no more acceptable for that to happen to her than it is for Momo.

Ykn1
joined Dec 20, 2018

[...] while her ex is still there as a hanger-on

I mean, I really wouldn't call her that, especially seeing how she has a daughter of her own.

joined Apr 16, 2021

Ok, so having read back Chp 10 & 11 again, you see the king and some of the prince, and the arranged marriage was a huge part of these chapters, so it coming back up shouldn't be a surprise. What was surprising was the Queen's situation, I don't think anyone would have batted an eye had she not had the first crush on the apprentice. I just hope she doesn't force Aki to break up with Momo

1461894977557
joined Jun 12, 2015

[...] while her ex is still there as a hanger-on

I mean, I really wouldn't call her that, especially seeing how she has a daughter of her own.

Lol, that's even worse.

Helmet
joined Jun 9, 2021

I'm pretty sure that the queen wouldn't force her to stay if she actually wanted to leave. That's not the kind of vibe their current relationship gives. More of a friendly exes situation, where they broke up but remained close friends.

I don't know the laws of this fictional world, but an order from royalty is pretty forceful. But the fact that it is framed that the dressmaker wanted things to end this way is also pretty upsetting in its own right.

I mean, I really wouldn't call her that, especially seeing how she has a daughter of her own.

You both might be right about the authors intention, but it still reads to me like it was born out of the old school yuri tropes.

• Any gay love must end in tragedy
• They should learn to be content with just watching from afar instead of demanding equality.
• Gay romance is just a youthful phase that people rightfully grow out of and enter into 'real' relationships.

We'll see how Aki and Momo's relationship goes from here, but the way the Queen's first love was framed in this flashback is still pretty off-putting to me.

last edited at Jan 26, 2023 12:59PM

Ykn1
joined Dec 20, 2018

You both might be right about the authors intention, but it still reads to me like it was born out of the old school yuri tropes.

• Any gay love must end in tragedy
• They should learn to be content with just watching from afar instead of demanding equality.
• Gay romance is just a youthful phase that people rightfully grow out of and enter into 'real' relationships.

We'll see how Aki and Momo's relationship goes from here, but the way the Queen's first love was framed in this flashback is still pretty off-putting to me.

I mean, you may not be wrong about the old school yuri tropes. But that was then, and Momo's time is now, and now it's time for better yuri.

edit: You know, having just finished reading the entire series so far again...

Will Aki be revealed as a long lost/runaway Wolfa princess?

That may actually be true. See the queen's reaction to her last name here and Aki's memory of her sister here.

last edited at Jan 26, 2023 2:36PM

joined Aug 20, 2022

My prediction is the mom is going to be cool. Just wants to make sure Aki will take care of Momo. I mean it won't be as simple as that, but you know what I mean.

Sshot-8
joined Oct 25, 2011

It's not really a problem because Mom has enough authority to make it not a problem. Whether or not you want to be mad about the broader implications is up to you. I wouldn't want to ruin your fun.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

The fact that the queen was forced to break up her relationship with the tailor was a tragedy, but wishing to have her current relationship crumble yet again seems counterproductive to me. That would just be yet another tragedy and wouldn't actually "fix" anything.

Because, in the current state, the author is making a statement that a good story (in the happy romance genre at least, as drama and tragedies would follow different rules) can use forced marriage (with all the heteronormativity associated, and the dark implications of being forced to bear someone's children without having a say) and it is perfectly fine for the characters to follow that plot line. It's also directly supporting that forcing someone to break up with their beloved and become the wife and mate of someone they never met is fine, "as long as they are happy in the end".

You seem to not understand that an author using certain tropes in fiction does not mean they support those same tropes in real life. There is no "statement" here.

You also completely missed the point, it is not about gender, it is about social class. Kunya was also interested in Momo and it was never implied that such a relationship would have been impossible. Note that in the linked scene Aki at no point thinks that Kunya does not have a chance on account of being a woman. And immediately afterwards when Kunya confronts Aki over the relationship between Aki and Momo, she lists Aki's social status as the obstacle, the fact Aki is a girl is not brought up at all.

When the Queen catches her daughter with Aki her only source of worry is the disparity between their status. "A love between social standings", I do not know how the author could have made it any clearer.

Honestly, I find the inclusion, and in particular portraying in a good light, of that situation highly problematic and disturbing. That's why I'm suggesting a divorce plot direction would correct this - it doesn't have to be a tragedy, just both characters agreeing that their marriage was not out of love but political interests, and that they would both be happier if they separated and were free to pursue their true love. Considering the queen and the dressmaker still see each other and, indeed, seem to still love each other, that would be a perfect solution to get a happy ending for everyone in-universe; while narratively, the story would distance itself from the positive portrayal of forced marriage, without shifting its tone by hurting the characters.

You also misread the portrayal of the arranged marriage in this specific example. Both the Queen and her husband express they were scared of marrying a stranger chosen for them by their parents. It is portrayed more like a "thank gods it turned out not horrible in the end". Plus, Momo's father is openly musing whether they should maybe not force an arranged marriage on their own daughter. In other words, not only is the "statement" you imagined the author made about the "positivity" of arranged marriages nowhere to be found, but what is implied in the text is actually exactly the opposite.

If anything, despite the Queen being adamant about Momo doing her duty towards the realm, the backstory we were now provided is actually more likely to make her sympathetic towards her daughter's love interest.

You also seem to have serious issues about understanding the setting itself. "...both characters agreeing that their marriage was not out of love but political interests, and that they would both be happier if they separated and were free to pursue their true love." Even though this is a fantasy setting, it operates on pretty clearly established principles of hereditary social classes and monarchical governance. I hate to break it to you, but marriages under these circumstances are made for political interest, it is how politics is conducted when you have such social structures. It is the duty of royal children to secure the future of their country through marriage. "Pursuing their true love" could realistically lead to war.

In other words, your idea is unrealistic within the confines of this setting and clashes horribly with it, forcing decidedly modern concepts on a story set in markedly different times. I have no doubt that Momo and Aki will make their own relationship work, but they will obviously have to fight for it. Expecting not only that, but that every other character should now throw all logic that the setting is based on into the wind and just start divorcing willy-nilly is pushing it too far, though.

But as I said, I'm not holding out on hope. I feel that the author is making this situation seem okay, and that the queen will just continue to accept her role as a victim of abusive authority. I'd love to be proven wrong, obviously. But right now, it's making me very uncomfortable, and I'm actually considering whether I should support an author writing such stories, even if the rest of the story (e.g., regarding Momo) is happier.

You are reading this on a pirate site, I am fairly confident the author is not being supported by default.

last edited at Jan 26, 2023 11:42PM

joined Jan 14, 2020

Abolish monarchy, because it's bad for the royals!

nothing pisses yuri reader more that the guy winning the “women” through forced marriage WHILE the EX-girlfriend is an bloody happy hanger talking with a smile about her EX child(that was the result of forced marriage)

What ex-child ? What does that even mean ? Momo is born from the king and the queen, not from the queen and the tailor. And the forum is so far the only place i've seen peoples being pissed.

I think they were saying that the queen's ex-girlfriend (the dressmaker) is standing there smiling about her ex's child (the queen's daughter, Momo).

But yeah, hard to tell, it's not exactly coherent text.

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