Forum › The Sheep Princess in Wolf's Clothing discussion

Tragedian%202
joined Oct 1, 2020

Glad to see this here. Love the main dynamic too- a wolf who's not quite aggressive, not quite passive, and a sheep that knows what she wants, even if she's a bit shaky on the specifics. The whole species-driven alpha-omega thing crops up a lot more in yaoi, now that I think about it, but it's nice to see a sapphic spin on it.

20265099_331371470609667_965795103732342855_n
joined May 28, 2017

<3

Mari%20-%20gf
joined Apr 1, 2015

Nice! Reminds ma a lot of Itou Hachi.

Also: no author tag (Mito)?

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

That it was a she-wolf was quite ambiguous and not really impressed upon.

__kasodani_kyouko_touhou_drawn_by_uguisu_mochi_ykss35__6c703c362e7ad06d13079154bccd4fae
joined Jul 11, 2017

More Momo ear flops please

Heres%20wakasa
joined Jul 28, 2016

I see that the next Itou Hachi has made something pretty good. Now we just have to wait for her signature slavery undertones and stories that get progressively more fucked up (in an interesting way but you might obviously think differently...)!

Palucina1
joined May 26, 2020

So, the princess is named "Momo." Well, it is the 35th anniversary, Also, R.I.P. Aki's peaceful days. ^_^

St1
joined Feb 17, 2013

@ Nya-chan You can see her breasts in quite a few panels (below her clothes) - very noticable in her first panel- and even naked boobs in several panels. And I thought her face looked more feminine than masculine.

I agree there are a lot of pannels when its not obvious though - and it would be better if they made it clearer by actualy saying her gender at the start..

last edited at Dec 1, 2020 6:37PM

georgeoswalddannyson
joined Aug 21, 2019

The princess is on the attack. Who knew sheep could be such scary predators

Tragedian%202
joined Oct 1, 2020

@ Nya-chan You can see her breasts in quite a few panels (below her clothes) - very noticable in her first panel- and even naked boobs in several panels. And I thought her face looked more feminine than masculine.

I agree there are a lot of pannels when its not obvious though - and it would be better if they made it clearer by actualy saying her gender at the start..

You do realize that 'Aki' is a female name, right? Readers in Japan would've gotten all the information they needed right there, removing any need for the author to grab a megaphone go, "This here is a woh-mun." Plus, she's not even all that butch. Y'all need to learn to appreciate androgyny instead of going, "She doesn't seem female enough on panel #5 of page 14 because I couldn't see her double D honkers and be assured that this yuri series doesn't feature a guy." People like to present in different ways, and women who dress in suits and have androgynous, angular features are extremely popular with lesbians, both in Japan and in the West. It's a veritable cultural phenomenon- look up otokoyaku from the Takarazuka Revue.

OrangePekoe Staff
Mai_screenshot_541
joined Mar 20, 2013

I see that the next Itou Hachi has made something pretty good. Now we just have to wait for her signature slavery undertones and stories that get progressively more fucked up (in an interesting way but you might obviously think differently...)!

I remember when everyone considered Itou Hachi as the captain of the cute ships...ahh, almost feels like a different lifetime.

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

Kirin posted:

@ Nya-chan You can see her breasts in quite a few panels (below her clothes) - very noticable in her first panel- and even naked boobs in several panels. And I thought her face looked more feminine than masculine.

I agree there are a lot of pannels when its not obvious though - and it would be better if they made it clearer by actualy saying her gender at the start..

You do realize that 'Aki' is a female name, right?

And you do realize that not everyone is a Japanese culture aficionado?

This story's focus isn't on the fact that they are lesbians, but that they are sheep and wolf.

And the fact that they are both female looks like a gimmick to make it look like less "predatory" (it's a wolf and a sheep after all). If it was a male, it would be less cute and more rapey.

It's nice that lesbianism seems to be a normal occurrence in that world (are there even males?), but then, does it mean it's a yuri story, or just a story?

Food for thoughts.

Tragedian%202
joined Oct 1, 2020

And you do realize that not everyone is a Japanese culture aficionado?

Your point was that it wasn't clear that she was a 'she-wolf'. I pointed out that her name is female. Manga, as I'm sure you're aware, is written primarily for a Japanese audience, not a bunch of people reading scanlations on a website. The intended audience would've gotten it, hence removing the need for the author to 'clarify' or 'prove' her femininity. You could ask why the scanlators didn't put in a TL note explaining that the name was female, but maybe they assumed that most people would look at the character design and the 'yuri' tag and have the presence of mind to get it. Clearly, they thought wrong.

This story's focus isn't on the fact that they are lesbians, but that they are sheep and wolf.

Reasonable.

And the fact that they are both female looks like a gimmick to make it look like less "predatory" (it's a wolf and a sheep after all). If it was a male, it would be less cute and more rapey.

Not exactly- the story seems to be using the assertiveness of the sheep versus the hesitance of the wolf for comedy, precisely to invert the predatory dynamic. It's even stated that wolves in-universe are treated with suspicion, and that our wolf-lead has something of a complex about it. Your argument would make sense if the wolf was dominant and aggressive and if the sheep was passive and afraid, but their actual dynamic is more-or-less the opposite. Using the appeal of lesbians to dress up problematic content is an issue with some manga, but it doesn't apply here, because the dynamic is largely positive and the point of the story is to break the assertive butch vs. submissive femme stereotype, using animal races for moe + allegory. So the gayness is not a 'gimmick' or a 'disguise'- it's part of the central appeal, both on the part of the author, who probably wanted to draw cute kemonomimi lesbians, and on the part of the readers, who appreciate them.

It's nice that lesbianism seems to be a normal occurrence in that world (are there even males?), but then, does it mean it's a yuri story, or just a story?

This is... a surprisingly good point, actually. However, the story's probably gonna focus on the central romance and the wolf vs. sheep issue, so the all-female cast is probably just gonna be something that readers take for granted instead of an attempt to explore the dynamics of lesbian relationships in an anthropomorphized society (though if it gives us non-science interspecies babies, it'll be totally worth it).

As for the question of whether it's yuri, I'd say that it is, since yuri is a marketing, demographic, genre-based and subcultural term rather than an in-universe phenomenon. Most characters in zombie fiction don't ever use the word 'zombie', but a movie about fighting an infestation of shambolic monsters that look like walking corpses would still be marketed and consumed as a zombie movie, regardless of whether they're powered by voodoo, bioweapons or a fungal infection. The term 'yuri' isn't something that people in real relationships use to describe themselves (imagine one guy going, "Oh, I'm yaoi for my boyfriend!" and you'll realize how absurd it sounds), but explicitly something that readers and consumers of fiction use to label and classify certain types of media.

_20180228_203946
joined Jan 24, 2018

The art style is so wonderful! I like the whole thing so far, it does kinda remind me of that itou hachi one like someone above mentioned, but different and not as icky... Looking forward to more

St1
joined Feb 17, 2013

@Kirin As I said in my post I had no trouble realising it was a woman from the first panel- I was just agreeing with Nya that I guess it could have been 'stated' clearer.

But you are right in that that was from the persepctive of a non Japanese reader - and I doubt most manga artists give consideration to the international readers when writing their manga- tweaking for westerners can happen when it gets released there - if it ever does.

So I hadnt thought about just from her name alone it would be clear to the reader. But I will make one point on that- is Aki 100% a female name? It doesn't sound undeniably female to me. Im not sure how male/female ONLY most Japanese names are. Maybe lots are more gender neutral than western names? Sure there are lots of names that sound 100% female or male to me- like Miyuki- I'd assume on hearing it was 100% a female character- but Aki, I wouldnt be so sure of.

There are quite a LOT of Japanese names where it isnt so clear- or my assumtions have been wrong.
I'd always assumed Akira was a male only name for example but have come across multiple female Akira's over the years. Same goes for some other names I'd assumed where male or female only.

last edited at Dec 2, 2020 10:02AM

Tragedian%202
joined Oct 1, 2020

^ Based on 7-8 name documentation websites that I looked at, Aki is almost exclusively used for girls in Japan. It's also a Finnish name for boys, though I don't think that's relevant here. There are unisex names that go for both genders, but Aki isn't one of them. Only way a guy would be referred to as Aki was if you were shortening part of his original name, like Akira or Akito, or perhaps a surname like Akiyama (or if the guy in question had parents with a weird naming sense, or simply took on the name despite knowing that it'd draw odd looks). And again, with the yuri tag + character design, you'd be hard-pressed to miss the character's gender. Tons of small clues therefore coalesce into a clear picture.

St1
joined Feb 17, 2013

^Ok, but my point stands still- unless you are Japanese or have researched every Japanese name, you are not always going to know if a name is male or female only. Even after 30 years of reading/watching Japanese media, I can only go on what I've seen before- and a sense of what male and female names sound like- but that can be misleading at times.

I dont recall seeing an Aki before- though I probably have- just not enough to know it was a female only name. It doesn't SOUND particularly feminine or masculine to me. A quick google image search shows me there ARE some male characters called Aki too so there are almost always exceptions. So as a westener not steeped in the culture every day of your life, names are not ALWAYS a clear indicator of gender.

But like I said, thats not the mangaka's fault- I shouldnt expect them to be making things clear to none Japanese people that would be clear to the market it is actually made for.

last edited at Dec 2, 2020 10:16AM

OrangePekoe Staff
Mai_screenshot_541
joined Mar 20, 2013

Okay, I think this particular track has gone on long enough. Barring exceptional restraint from each individual poster, I will not be entertaining further posts on the subject of names in this thread.

Kirin, you seem to be arguing a broader point about manga readers - and this manga in particular - that hasn't been demonstrated to exist within the confines of this thread. Your first post, especially, is highly dismissive towards other people who may not have the same perspective or level of knowledge that you possess. I can appreciate comedic exaggeration, but in this case you went too far.

Thank you and take care, everyone.

last edited at Dec 2, 2020 12:06PM

Tragedian%202
joined Oct 1, 2020

Kirin, you seem to be arguing a broader point about manga readers - and this manga in particular - that hasn't been demonstrated to exist within the confines of this thread. Your first post, especially, is highly dismissive towards other people who may not have the same perspective or level of knowledge that you possess. I can appreciate comedic exaggeration, but in this case you went too far.

Point taken. The original observation seemed to revolve around a demand for the author to 'prove' a character's femininity, which I found to be in rather bad taste, hence my reply. But I apologize if the tone of my counterargument came off as condescending.

St1
joined Feb 17, 2013

@OrangePekoe Sorry about that- I just found it quite interesting and was curious about Japanese naming conventions etc but as you say it went on too long and wasnt exactly on topic.

Heihtzz
joined Oct 16, 2016

Answering the age-old question; if Itou Hachi is so great, why isn't there an Itou Hachi 2?

Heres%20wakasa
joined Jul 28, 2016

I see that the next Itou Hachi has made something pretty good. Now we just have to wait for her signature slavery undertones and stories that get progressively more fucked up (in an interesting way but you might obviously think differently...)!

I remember when everyone considered Itou Hachi as the captain of the cute ships...ahh, almost feels like a different lifetime.

Itou Hachi's cute ships are nice and all, but some darker stuff is nice from time to time as well... this doesn't seem like it'll actually get dark, but who knows, maybe it will.

35
joined Feb 5, 2020

I really really really really really really really really really really love that maid

9a98d8a7-869e-4e25-947d-59f469d10a1d
joined Feb 22, 2019

This is a godly manga

Ewe
joined Jan 22, 2017

Sakaku looks jealous. Seems like the biggest wolves are the most useless lesbians.

To reply you must either login or sign up.