Would be curious to hear your thoughts on Spec-Ops Asuka after reading the manga. I kind of got turned off after reading some spoilers but maybe it executes its concepts well.

I finished reading it. What was it that turned you off? I can try to elaborate on what I thought about anything specific, but it would probably take ten paragraphs full of spoilers to put my thoughts on the manga as a whole into writing.

The main things iirc:

1. The main characters routinely engaging in torture and the narrative justifying them in doing so.

2. The main villain arguing that magical girls should fight "earthly" evils too and the protagonists -- who all work for the government -- responding "Yeah but you're evil so."

last edited at Oct 2, 2022 10:46PM

I'm not sure if yuribait is enough for me to watch a Gundam for two cour, I love Macross and some other mecha but Gundam is too dramatic.

The individual Gundam series can be pretty different from each other. And G-Witch in particular looks to be pretty far from the UC standard

The main things iirc:

1. The main characters routinely engaging in torture and the narrative justifying them in doing so.

2. The main villain arguing that magical girls should fight "earthly" evils too and the protagonists -- who all work for the government -- responding "Yeah but you're evil so."

1. I thought this was executed decently well. It's definitely a messy subject, but I wouldn't say the narrative justifies it. It felt pretty clear to me that there were no "good guys" in this manga, and the torture was explicitly used to highlight that these aren't the magical girls fighting for justice they aspired to be when they kids. That being said, it straddles an incredibly thin line and I could see someone's takeaway being the manga suggesting that torture is a necessary evil.

2. That... is definitely not how it went down. The main villain was arguing that their method of fighting problems -- working for the government -- wasn't good enough, and that they should conquer the world and force it into submission. That human conflict will continue as long as humans are in charge, so magical girls should rule over them to create utopia. The response to that was "okay but that's literally magical fascism"... which, pretty fair critique. I actually have a huge bundle of problems with how the antagonist was handled, but I'd say one of them is basically the opposite of however you were spoiled -- I found the villain to be cartoonishly evil, which was bizarre for a series where the protaganists were morally ambiguous.

Makes sense, thank you! Maybe I'll check it out when I'm in the mood for some edge.

depending how all of this is done, so it doesn't end as just "Gundam Utena", because this can be more than just that

I don't think it just being "Gundam Utena" is terribly likely, with all the political stuff going on in the background. Not to mention that Miorine and Suletta are basically nothing like Utena and Anthy

Ah yeah, i missed a few words, but that was mostly going for alot of comments i read so far outside here already labeling this as just that, based just on the 1st episode without seeing anything else but the references, but like you said, characters are different, and Gundam always having all this political stuff there, whether it goes heavy into that or not, though i wouldn't fault them, with how many references it have in the first episode, or influences later it may have, it can be misleading to whatever the aim is at the end

last edited at Oct 3, 2022 12:17AM

I watched the new gundam show because I heard about yuri and honestly I feel like this is very promising but I keep seeing gundam junkies talk about how the love interest girl is gonna die like its a tradition and now im concerned

Management of Novice Alchemist is cuuuute, just watched the first episode and i'm into it. Basically "Atelier Series: The Anime" in all but name, including subtly gay undertones, what's not to love?

Having finished Lycoris Recoil, I decided to throw my own thoughts on it here too.
It was definitely within my expectations when it came to plot (meaning it didn't offer much), but I never got the impression it was trying to sell itself as anything more than it was in that department, so I didn't really mind that—especially since it was actually quite enjoyable to watch. What actually exceeded my expectations (and will likely make me come back to this one at some point) was how much I came to like Chisato. The overly cheerful and energetic protagonist seems to be somewhat of a standard in female-led shows, and while I don't have any particular problem with them, it can feel like I'm seeing the same character again and again. But somehow Chisato was very charming and stood out from the rest to me; she was fun and cute, without being overbearing, and the va did an excellent job bringing this character to life.

On the matter of yuri bait, I can't really decide if I would name it as such. To be honest, I find idol (of which I admittedly haven't watched many) and cgdct anime often feel a lot closer to that than LycoReco did to me. Though perhaps I should note that I'm not generally bothered much by what others may call "bait" (hell, I even like Hibike Euphonium! For reasons other than the Kumiko-Reina ship yes, but I know many people were, understandably, very angered by that one). Besides, right before watching Lycoris Recoil I came across two shows with diffferent levels of implied romantic feelings between het pairings, so it's definitely not something exclusive to lgbtq+ content. I can't say if it's more common though, since a majority of the shows I watch have a female main cast.

I watched the new gundam show because I heard about yuri and honestly I feel like this is very promising but I keep seeing gundam junkies talk about how the love interest girl is gonna die like its a tradition and now im concerned

...It is, but Miorine is the wrong type of love interest for that. Newtype love interests have a very low survival rate, but Gundam princesses very rarely die

Oh, and speaking of Gundam, the 0.5 short story got translated

Management of Novice Alchemist is cuuuute, just watched the first episode and i'm into it. Basically "Atelier Series: The Anime" in all but name, including subtly gay undertones, what's not to love?

I'm not sure I'd call Sarasa's crush on Ophelia "subtle". And, yeah, show's alright

last edited at Oct 3, 2022 12:57PM

Well well Whale...
"Gundam : The Witch From Mercury debuted this weekend, with many fans realizing its overt references to Revolutionary Girl Utena.

The most obvious reason comes from Gundam Witch ‘s writer, Ichirou Ookouchi– while he’s had a stellar history with the Gundam series, writing The 08th MS Team and Turn A Gundam- but he also wrote the light novel adaptation of Revolutionary Girl Utena."

https://www.gamerbraves.com/gundam-witch-from-mercury-is-basically-just-revolutionary-girl-utena-and-fans-are-into-that/

Well well Whale...
"Gundam : The Witch From Mercury debuted this weekend, with many fans realizing its overt references to Revolutionary Girl Utena.

The most obvious reason comes from Gundam Witch ‘s writer, Ichirou Ookouchi– while he’s had a stellar history with the Gundam series, writing The 08th MS Team and Turn A Gundam- but he also wrote the light novel adaptation of Revolutionary Girl Utena."

https://www.gamerbraves.com/gundam-witch-from-mercury-is-basically-just-revolutionary-girl-utena-and-fans-are-into-that/

SQUEEE!

Well well Whale...
"Gundam : The Witch From Mercury debuted this weekend, with many fans realizing its overt references to Revolutionary Girl Utena.

The most obvious reason comes from Gundam Witch ‘s writer, Ichirou Ookouchi– while he’s had a stellar history with the Gundam series, writing The 08th MS Team and Turn A Gundam- but he also wrote the light novel adaptation of Revolutionary Girl Utena."

https://www.gamerbraves.com/gundam-witch-from-mercury-is-basically-just-revolutionary-girl-utena-and-fans-are-into-that/

Well, if it's 08th's writer, I know we're in good hands.

edit: More research shows they're just the writer for an extra made for the BD release, not the series itself.

last edited at Oct 5, 2022 4:25PM

Well, Do It Yourself is already in the realm of heavy subtext. The main character's next door neighbour is tsundere for her, and their relationship is a major motivating element for both of them

I'm not gonna spend too much time hating, but my goodness Lycoris Recoil felt like one of the most uninspired shows I've seen. Girls with guns is like my favourite, but everything about this show felt so purposeless and overdone. With the exception of Mika and his lover, I guess. The fights rarely had much choreography or narrative weight. The plot on its own felt like a retread of other popular anime. The side characters didn't get enough screen time for me to treasure them. The comedy mostly consisted of panties and poop, neither of which I care for.

I'll agree with TB earlier. If you're like me or protectmomo and don't find yourself particularly enthralled by episode 3, just move on. It doesn't get better from here. If you're into it for the eminently giffable flirting, I can promise it disappears after episode 5. Unlike similar "subtext" shows, i.e. Machikado Mazoku, the narrative never grants their relationship primacy, either. Each time Takina is called upon to save someone she fulfills that role, but is then immediately discarded to focus on other, more important character conflicts (Chisato v Majima, Chisato v Yoshimatsu, Chisato v Fuki, etc.).

As for the yuri bait discussion earlier, I wasn't finished with the show so perhaps I shouldn't have participated. After finishing, I just wanted to agree with protectmomo in broad terms. As far as their classification, anyway. If we define "yuri bait" as "overt flirting between girls, portrayed to garner some audience with no interest in further development" then I think this one is pretty close. I've personally never experienced feeling baited till now - but this show just about did it. Yes, the two characters were sometimes physically close. Yes, they're sometimes forced by circumstance into intimate situations (panties, sleepover). These scenes never amounted to anything, though**. They're interesting out of context, but in the context of the story being told they never seemed to have any impact or relevance after.

I get that most don't agree with me on most of the above. That's okay! No need to worry about me using the word yuri bait in the future, it seems super inflammatory. Maybe I'll find joy in the doujins. I'm also hopeful this series' bombastic success spurns a bunch of copycats. The more girls with guns, the better.

** Episode 5, which actually does weave Takina's concern/curiosity for Chisato's heart into its episodic narrative with some fluidity. I was thrilled with that, it was a big motivation to keep watching. Unfortunately for me, I never fully bought into Takina caring so much in the first place, nor did she ever initiate any level of affection again.

Guess I should say it here too, SHY is getting an anime! https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2022-10-05/bukimi-miki-shy-manga-gets-tv-anime-at-8-bit/.190449
The manga is going very well I think, almost 150 chapters already

I've personally never experienced feeling baited till now - but this show just about did it.

Vindication! I take solace in knowing I'm not the only one who felt that this just wasn't the same as the subtext found in series like Madoka or Machikado Mazoku. Although I am sorry that my reprieve comes at the expense of somebody else having suffered through it without finding what they were looking for.

If you're a big fan of girls with guns, you've probably heard of this one already, but I'll mention it just in case; the aptly-named Gunslinger Girl might be up your ally. There is no pretension of yuri (nor het) whatsoever, mind you, but it has a very similar concept to Lycoris Recoil of orphan girls becoming government assassins who fight terrorism. Unlike Lycoris Recoil, it's much darker in tone and takes itself seriously, but I found that it had an actually engaging plot that was capable of turning on the waterworks.

Well well Whale...
"Gundam : The Witch From Mercury debuted this weekend, with many fans realizing its overt references to Revolutionary Girl Utena.

The most obvious reason comes from Gundam Witch ‘s writer, Ichirou Ookouchi– while he’s had a stellar history with the Gundam series, writing The 08th MS Team and Turn A Gundam- but he also wrote the light novel adaptation of Revolutionary Girl Utena."

https://www.gamerbraves.com/gundam-witch-from-mercury-is-basically-just-revolutionary-girl-utena-and-fans-are-into-that/

Well, if it's 08th's writer, I know we're in good hands.

edit: More research shows they're just the writer for an extra made for the BD release, not the series itself.

I'm gonna tell y'all just in case you don't know: episode 1 is great for a first episode and totally like RGU, but there's an episode 0! And if you plan to follow this show then you should watch it because it's full of mega important info.

I might as well spoil you: mc is not just Utena, she's also Char Aznable, LOL! No wonder she's a redhead! A red helmet would've been too much, so they gave her red hair instead. :P Anyway, in episode 0 her family is murdered by baddies and the big bad boss is Delling Rembran who is also Miorine's father. So mc is actually in a mission of revenge, just like Char, but she's gonna fall in love with Miorine, so... ouch. I foresee angst and difficult decisions.

Stuff White Rose said

Uh, you might want to read the short story set between episodes 0 and 1

Well well Whale...
"Gundam : The Witch From Mercury debuted this weekend, with many fans realizing its overt references to Revolutionary Girl Utena.

The most obvious reason comes from Gundam Witch ‘s writer, Ichirou Ookouchi– while he’s had a stellar history with the Gundam series, writing The 08th MS Team and Turn A Gundam- but he also wrote the light novel adaptation of Revolutionary Girl Utena."

https://www.gamerbraves.com/gundam-witch-from-mercury-is-basically-just-revolutionary-girl-utena-and-fans-are-into-that/

Well, if it's 08th's writer, I know we're in good hands.

edit: More research shows they're just the writer for an extra made for the BD release, not the series itself.

I'm gonna tell y'all just in case you don't know: episode 1 is great for a first episode and totally like RGU, but there's an episode 0! And if you plan to follow this show then you should watch it because it's full of mega important info.

I might as well spoil you: mc is not just Utena, she's also Char Aznable, LOL! No wonder she's a redhead! A red helmet would've been too much, so they gave her red hair instead. :P Anyway, in episode 0 her family is murdered by baddies and the big bad boss is Delling Rembran who is also Miorine's father. So mc is actually in a mission of revenge, just like Char, but she's gonna fall in love with Miorine, so... ouch. I foresee angst and difficult decisions.

Don't worry, seen episode 0 already (and by now also ep1). (Never seen RGU, though.)

Stuff White Rose said

Uh, you might want to read the short story set between episodes 0 and 1

Ooh, also nice. Mom reminds me a bit of grown-up Flit from AGE, but it's nice to see that Suletta doesn't share (or even realize) her obsession with revenge. While she's managed to actually fulfill her mother's plan so far without knowing, it's good to know that whatever develops between her and Miorine is their true feelings.

Also, just saying, Suletta really reminds me of Izetta...

last edited at Oct 6, 2022 4:50AM

Well well Whale...
"Gundam : The Witch From Mercury debuted this weekend, with many fans realizing its overt references to Revolutionary Girl Utena.

The most obvious reason comes from Gundam Witch ‘s writer, Ichirou Ookouchi– while he’s had a stellar history with the Gundam series, writing The 08th MS Team and Turn A Gundam- but he also wrote the light novel adaptation of Revolutionary Girl Utena."

https://www.gamerbraves.com/gundam-witch-from-mercury-is-basically-just-revolutionary-girl-utena-and-fans-are-into-that/

Well, if it's 08th's writer, I know we're in good hands.

edit: More research shows they're just the writer for an extra made for the BD release, not the series itself.

I'm gonna tell y'all just in case you don't know: episode 1 is great for a first episode and totally like RGU, but there's an episode 0! And if you plan to follow this show then you should watch it because it's full of mega important info.

I might as well spoil you: mc is not just Utena, she's also Char Aznable, LOL! No wonder she's a redhead! A red helmet would've been too much, so they gave her red hair instead. :P Anyway, in episode 0 her family is murdered by baddies and the big bad boss is Delling Rembran who is also Miorine's father. So mc is actually in a mission of revenge, just like Char, but she's gonna fall in love with Miorine, so... ouch. I foresee angst and difficult decisions.

Oh yeah baby, bring me that good Romeo and Juliet drama! My body craves it!

If you're a big fan of girls with guns, you've probably heard of this one already, but I'll mention it just in case; the aptly-named Gunslinger Girl might be up your ally. There is no pretension of yuri (nor het) whatsoever, mind you, but it has a very similar concept to Lycoris Recoil of orphan girls becoming government assassins who fight terrorism. Unlike Lycoris Recoil, it's much darker in tone and takes itself seriously, but I found that it had an actually engaging plot that was capable of turning on the waterworks.

I second this. It was a series I avoided for a time because it looked like it was going to be all Loli girls (especially knowing some of the other thing Yu Aida worked on). But it ended up being quite amazing. There's a bit of het crush--especially later in the books, less so in the parts covered in the anime--but it's addressed really well. The quality of the story is excellent, and many tears were shed.

Re: Lycoris Recoil -- I get where people are calling it yuri bait, but I guess I was able to enjoy it because it never felt to me like there was going to be anything between them. Maybe because Chisato reminded me too much of Hikari from Amanchu. (Cue saltiness.)

I would understand calling LycoReco bait if and only if it wasn't obviously setting up a season two. Even if said season two never comes the fact that it's set up still shows that the story isn't finished.
Now, were season two to also ignore the obvious romantic tension between Chisato and Takina and not develop romance between them so that they may become a couple then I'd call it bait but for now it's just unfinished

I'm okay with a good bait so long as we don't get the switch... Like, I'm very happy with gundam but I'm keeping my guard up ! LoL

I would understand calling LycoReco bait if and only if it wasn't obviously setting up a season two. Even if said season two never comes the fact that it's set up still shows that the story isn't finished.

Personally, this doesn't matter for my purposes because there is a 0% chance I'm watching a season 2.

Ending spoilers
I mean, I already went into how I disliked the whole story, but the way they set up for a continuation was especially appalling. Majima surviving a fall from, like, literally 1000 feet high is such bad writing. Give me a break! I have zero investment in the plot when it continuously does this.

Stuff White Rose said

Uh, you might want to read the short story set between episodes 0 and 1

Thank you so much for the link! I had no idea that this short story even existed. In the anime forums I read, for some reason, nobody mentioned it.

Tbh I did think it was a bit weird that mc didn't seem to recognize at all the surname Rembran. So it's not that she's out for revenge from the start, rather she's in for a big, horrifying revelation in the future, huehehe. I wonder how far with revenge her mother will ask her to go?

Oh yeah baby, bring me that good Romeo and Juliet drama! My body craves it!

Hehe, Romeo and Juliet are a good reference, but in this case I think Rodrigue and Chimène are even better. (⁀ ᗢ⁀)