That panel of Tsuzuki laying on top of Kashiwai reminded me so much of Octave haha. Looking forward to the day it's not just a fantasy.

I liked that they showed the boyfriend isn't as clueless about their relationship as he seems. I know they kinda already showed a lil of his worries in the beginning but good to have more confirmation.

I wonder what was the "thing" Tsuzuki had to do. Sounds more like an excuse to give Kashiwai more time to think about what she wants. I'd like another POV change soon since Tsuzuki is a really interesting character and more than the manic pixie girl we see when it's from Kashiwai's POV.

Tsuzuki's a good bean. She saw Kashiwai's feelings after asking the question, saw the affection and conflict both together, then realized Kashiwai needed to process things after the hectic day they had instead of being pulled into a situation that could upset her more.

Oh hey, it's another chapter of my one of my favorite ongoing series, Kash and Zook's Extramarital Adventure! Thoughts:

1) I've probably said this before, but Akiyama really knows how to employ space and locations to brilliant symbolic effect. I love how the station where they first saw each other recurs at the start of Vol 2 as it did in Vol 1, reflecting in general a site of transitions, uncertainties, arrivals and departures, both the movement-as-order of Kashiwai's very traditional conception of a wedding as a natural, organized step in a monogamous relationship (the train as a means of getting to your preplanned location, perhaps even a commute unto 'normalcy') as well as the movement-as-freedom of Tsuzuki's lifestyle and ideals (the train as presented in a million cheesy romcoms as a means for lovers to escape hostile locations, or a site of unexpected meetings, or a point of connection wherein a partner dramatically reaches a hand out from a car for their sprinting lover to grab onto before the train leaves). I feel like that juxtaposition of purposes, that tension between trajectory and deviation, the 'right' time and place, and intersections of paths and momentum are very essential to this series, since it looks to complicate and queer the idea of monogamy and marriage even as it doesn't actually stop the proceedings so much as it accelerates them towards a breaking point, a crossing of tracks, so to speak- there are no stops on this manga's (bridal) train.

2) Fascinated by Kash's dedication to making Zook the happiest bride ever, because it feels like a deliciously ironic way for her to 'resolve', in a very temporary way, the initial contradiction she perceives between her conceptions of Tsuzuki as a bride-to-be ('pure', dedicated, simple) and Tsuzuki as a freewheeling seductress (fun, iconic, complicated), because she's now grasped that Tsuzuki's openness with her desires is by no means profane or corrupt, but in some sense incredibly, almost envy-inducingly honest, a way of life that's completely true to her present desires, to love as a spark felt in the moment rather than marriage as the echo and result of a love that once was, a love that sets you on a track. She wishes, indeed, that she could be as 'pure' as Tsuzuki, lose herself freely in desire, live unbound by strictures and norms, to venture into what she sees as Tsuzuki's world (which she's physically invited into when Tsuzuki tells her to pop over to her bachelorette pad); at the same time, she's also compelled to distance Tsuzuki from herself, to place her in a different world, be it the transgressive world of the night she initially pegs Tsuzuki as a strider of, or indeed the idealized world of love and marriage she sells and builds for her clients- anything that reduces the immense complications Tsuzuki brings into her life. Of course, Akiyama isn't letting anyone escape perdition, so I doubt Tsuzuki's free-love-fairy bliss is going to guard her from immense angst for much longer, assuming she already isn't torn up inside (Tsuzuki: Why, this is super-hell, nor am I out of it./ Think'st thou that I, who saw the face of a girl/ And tasted the eternal joys of our sweet liaisons/ Am not tormented with ten thousand hells/ In being forced to pay for a never-lasting wedding?)

3) I am actually rather surprised by how... pleasant I find every character in this story so far? Like, I'd initially assumed this series would be kinda like Octave, wherein our lead trainwrecks would be generally sympathetic despite their ethical dilemmas and mild moral bloopers, while the side characters would vary from 'wise, but unable to directly help' to 'amiably passive-aggressive' to 'holy shit dude, how the fuck have you not been arrested yet?', but the denizens of the Iberian Pain-insula so far have been pretty likeable? All the boys, from Malewife Supreme Jun to Dogboy Groom Hiroki to DILF-in-Chief Fukunaga have been pretty soft overall and I think they should kiss each other, but I also fear this might make the coming pileup even worse, much in the tradition of the best tragedies, which involve a bunch of essentially good-natured people descending into misery because all they ever did was follow what they thought was the right way to live. Of course, that angst might then make the rare moments of fluff and possible happy ending Akiyama affords Kash and Zook even sweeter, as is evident in how heartwarming the recent chapters have been, driving a cycle of progressively brighter highs and darker lows that shall escalate until either this manga or I end. Can't wait.

Iberian Pain-insula

lol

Oh hey, it's another chapter of my one of my favorite ongoing series, Kash and Zook's Extramarital Adventure! Thoughts:
[snip]

Great post. Seriously, great post! Wonderful analysis of the psychologies of the mcs.
Just wanted to express my appreciation. (ღˇ◡ˇ)~♥

Where’s the cheating tag at?

Man I love this series, and the after-the-kiss moment was so real, I mean, I've sometimes in that situation of confessing and being corresponded (while it didn't actually last) and it's exactly like that, with that urge for everything to happen right there and then, not wanting to leave each other, that irrepressible happiness (euphoria maybe), and then reality striking again, it's so well portrayed

I don't want it to be a case of "they were both lesbians all along!" We have stories like that already, and there will be more. Genuine polyamorous/bisexual stories are a lot more rare by comparison.

Here's a possibly controversial take that people in the comment section seem to be looking for:

Maybe those stories are more rare because they more rarely work out in reality? Most people who say they're bisexual are often in a pretty darn straight looking relationship, and can't be bothered to foster a long-term poly one. They usually just want a fling. And being in a straight relationship is easier to come by then a gay one.

Wow.

That's a take so hot you could only have found it in a pile of burning trash.

Man, I feel bad for her fiancé but I think it's pretty clear she's gay as fuck. She doesn't even want to marry him. She just got hit hard by comphet.

I don't want it to be a case of "they were both lesbians all along!" We have stories like that already, and there will be more. Genuine polyamorous/bisexual stories are a lot more rare by comparison.

Here's a possibly controversial take that people in the comment section seem to be looking for:

Maybe those stories are more rare because they more rarely work out in reality? Most people who say they're bisexual are often in a pretty darn straight looking relationship, and can't be bothered to foster a long-term poly one. They usually just want a fling. And being in a straight relationship is easier to come by then a gay one.

Wow.

That's a take so hot you could only have found it in a pile of burning trash.

Dynasty being constructive as usual. Don't mind me while I add more trash to the fire.

Maybe those stories are more rare because they more rarely work out in reality?

I don't think anybody can really compare the frequency of "they were both lesbians" to "they were poly/bi" in real life.

Most people who say they're bisexual are often in a pretty darn straight looking relationship, and can't be bothered to foster a long-term poly one.

I believe this is true, since (a) it is socially more acceptable to be in a straight relationship than a gay one, and (b) I doubt most people are interested in long-term poly relationships.

They usually just want a fling.

Eeeeeeehhhhhh... If you're saying most people who are bi want a fling, I don't agree. If you're saying that those who are bi and poly tend to only want a fling, that wouldn't surprise me, but who knows.

And being in a straight relationship is easier to come by then a gay one.

I agree with this. Being in a straight relationship is more socially acceptable than being in a gay one, so naturally straight relationships would be the more common of the two.

Maybe those stories are more rare because they more rarely work out in reality? Most people who say they're bisexual are often in a pretty darn straight looking relationship, and can't be bothered to foster a long-term poly one. They usually just want a fling. And being in a straight relationship is easier to come by then a gay one.

Wow.

That's a take so hot you could only have found it in a pile of burning trash.

Dynasty being constructive as usual.

Maybe, just maybe, there shouldn't be the need to be constructive about people delegitimizing being bisexual with the same bullshit discourse of "oh well you're not actually bi if you're in a het relationship" and when you're in a gay relationship you're just too pussy to say you're gay.

Like literally what this is saying is "most people who say they're bi" aren't actually bi because they're in a relationship that looks very straight. And that is an absolute dogshit take that shouldn't exist anymore. "Can't be bothered to foster a long term poly one" is also such a stupid take. Just because you're sexually and or romantically interested in multiple gender doesn't mean you want to be in a relationship with multiple at once. Being bi doesn't mean you want to be in a poly relationship. Like this sentence is just nonsense being in a straight or gay relationship has absolutely no fucking bearing on wether you want to develop a poly one. + The people who "just want a fling" generally are actually the middle aged straight people with a failing marriage who want a (younger) bi women for a threesome to spice up their dead sex life. Saying "you don't wanna be poly you just want a fling" is a stupid take.

Also, everybody can want to have casual sex, and this stereotype that bi people only want to fuck, are players or cheaters is an idea that does belong in a pile of burning trash.

Some of y'all really need to take a second and think about the garbage ideas you have about bisexuality and bi people.

Maybe those stories are more rare because they more rarely work out in reality? Most people who say they're bisexual are often in a pretty darn straight looking relationship, and can't be bothered to foster a long-term poly one. They usually just want a fling. And being in a straight relationship is easier to come by then a gay one.

Wow.

That's a take so hot you could only have found it in a pile of burning trash.

Dynasty being constructive as usual.

Maybe, just maybe, there shouldn't be the need to be constructive about people delegitimizing being bisexual with the same bullshit discourse of "oh well you're not actually bi if you're in a het relationship" and when you're in a gay relationship you're just too pussy to say you're gay.

Like literally what this is saying is "most people who say they're bi" aren't actually bi because they're in a relationship that looks very straight. And that is an absolute dogshit take that shouldn't exist anymore. "Can't be bothered to foster a long term poly one" is also such a stupid take. Just because you're sexually and or romantically interested in multiple gender doesn't mean you want to be in a relationship with multiple at once. Being bi doesn't mean you want to be in a poly relationship. Like this sentence is just nonsense being in a straight or gay relationship has absolutely no fucking bearing on wether you want to develop a poly one. + The people who "just want a fling" generally are actually the middle aged straight people with a failing marriage who want a (younger) bi women for a threesome to spice up their dead sex life. Saying "you don't wanna be poly you just want a fling" is a stupid take.

Also, everybody can want to have casual sex, and this stereotype that bi people only want to fuck, are players or cheaters is an idea that does belong in a pile of burning trash.

Some of y'all really need to take a second and think about the garbage ideas you have about bisexuality and bi people.

And this overall thread (not specifically the post I'm quoting) is a good example of why general forum discussions of morality often become such a dead-end in terms of critical discourse (if not indeed interpersonal dumpster fires). In another forum here on Dynasty there was just a post objecting to people (implicitly, people like me) "negging" on the "who's right/who's wrong/who is a good person/who is a bad person/don't do this at home because it's bad" approach to discussion, saying it's just as legitimate (or useful, or whatever) as anything else.

My objection to the whole approach is that, at best, it stops paying attention to the text that's the supposed topic of discussion, and at worst devolves into people pressing the autoplay button in their heads in order to make a bunch of generalizations about the real-life implications of whatever morality/behavioral issue they're talking about. (Of course I'm not saying that people shouldn't be allowed to discuss such topics; I'm just saying that I personally don't see much value in critical dead ends and interpersonal dumpster fires.)

Brides of Iberis is notable (so far) for featuring a bisexual and polyamorous character who isn't depicted with the various negative characteristics often associated with such characters in yuri manga (i.e., emotionally confused, in denial, manipulative, etc.), making Tsuzuki (to me) one of the more striking and interesting characters to come along in quite a while. That would seem to make for plenty of things to discuss about this series and how it might relate to other specific manga series or genres.

And this overall thread (not specifically the post I'm quoting) is a good example of why general forum discussions of morality often become such a dead-end in terms of critical discourse (if not indeed interpersonal dumpster fires). In another forum here on Dynasty there was just a post objecting to people (implicitly, people like me) "negging" on the "who's right/who's wrong/who is a good person/who is a bad person/don't do this at home because it's bad" approach to discussion, saying it's just as legitimate (or useful, or whatever) as anything else.

My objection to the whole approach is that, at best, it stops paying attention to the text that's the supposed topic of discussion, and at worst devolves into people pressing the autoplay button in their heads in order to make a bunch of generalizations about the real-life implications of whatever morality/behavioral issue they're talking about. (Of course I'm not saying that people shouldn't be allowed to discuss such topics; I'm just saying that I personally don't see much value in critical dead ends and interpersonal dumpster fires.)

Brides of Iberis is notable (so far) for featuring a bisexual and polyamorous character who isn't depicted with the various negative characteristics often associated with such characters in yuri manga (i.e., emotionally confused, in denial, manipulative, etc.), making Tsuzuki (to me) one of the more striking and interesting characters to come along in quite a while. That would seem to make for plenty of things to discuss about this series and how it might relate to other specific manga series or genres.

(cutting some of the quoting to not have a gigantic comment.)

I agree that it'd be better to just talk about the manga instead of derail in other things, and recognize that im often(?) part of the people who end up doing some amount of derailing which I've tried and will keep trying to work on. It's just a pain in the ass to see things that are pretty negative and based on stereotype or whatever and the urge to say something about it is pretty strong sigh.

About the manga though, I'm really glad it has not portrayed that kind of bisexual character which the first chapter kinda felt like it would go in that direction. I'm really glad it ended up not going there and instead not potraying Tsuzuki in a bad light. It gives more room for the story to explore more interesting territories and so far it's been really interesting to see the confusion Mitsuki has been going through with at first thinking Tsuzuki was cheating, which funnily enough mirrors part of the audiance, and now her having been the one who probably stepped out of the boundaries of her own relationship with jun. Really curious to see where she will go from there, because even in the case she breaks up with jun, given the things we've seen so far it doesn't quite seem like she'd be okay entering the polyamours type relationship Tsuzuki is in even though she has strong feelings for her.

last edited at Jun 29, 2022 9:41AM

It's just a pain in the ass to see things that are pretty negative and based on stereotype or whatever and the urge to say something about it is pretty strong sigh.

That's the point--yours is a natural reaction. But then you see how soon enough the discussion becomes about (for example) the qualities of hypothetical real-life bisexuals that have almost nothing to do with the actual character in the story under discussion.

I agree with your take on the story, btw--it's easy to see how Tsuzuki can be the catalyst for Mitsuki to make a major change in her life, but much less obvious how the two of them might be together going forward.

last edited at Jul 19, 2022 7:39PM

I like this meta discussion. revkar is right that we should shut down bigoted stances and Blastaar is right in that the text should be the focus.

A great manga where cheating is cool and acceptable so very based author lol

A great manga where cheating is cool and acceptable so very based author lol

This sounds like you’re mostly joking, but taking it seriously I wouldn’t say that cheating is literally “cool” in this series, because nobody (previously) involved with Tsuzuki appears to think that what she’s doing is “cheating.”

I’d expect that things will be rather different for Mitsuki and her fiancé.

Tsuzuki really said two-timing is not cheating. I wonder what her religions is lol. Actually a very nice manga 10/10. It actually has a good, complicated and interesting drama compared to the other series here.

To be clear, I absolutely agree it's better to stay on-topic rather than going on giant tangents about real-world morality when discussing fiction. I also don't consider calling out a real-world person's display of blatant biphobia or other bigotry to be a tangent about morality, nor do I consider it worth debating. I didnt think it would start an argument and I regret the fact that it did. I suppose that unfortunate lack of foresight on my part really just goes to show that I'm not a master debater.

MapleLovesYuri posted:

Tsuzuki really said two-timing is not cheating. I wonder what her religions is lol. Actually a very nice manga 10/10. It actually has a good, complicated and interesting drama compared to the other series here.

Tsuzuki's (and Hiroki/Fukunaga's, though we don't know much about them) points of view challenge the belief that something like cheating is universally bad.

In the end, what's moral and what is not is cultural and people adhere to it more by obligation (to not stand out) than by inclination.

That's why so many men dream of having a harem.

How dare she cheat on her boyfriend~ he’s such a nice guy too! What do you do when your partner left to be in a 4-way marriage??

How dare she cheat on her boyfriend~ he’s such a nice guy too! What do you do when your partner left to be in a 4-way marriage??

Pretty much what you’d do when your partner left for any other reason, would be my guess.

How dare she cheat on her boyfriend~ he’s such a nice guy too! What do you do when your partner left to be in a 4-way marriage??

Pretty much what you’d do when your partner left for any other reason, would be my guess.

I’d probably tear out my brain stem, carry it into the middle of the nearest four-way intersection and skip rope with it. It’s a bit more demoralizing lol

“love is something you have to cultivate” is immediately overwhelmed by a sapphic crush

smacks of gay woman who convinced herself that she can fall in love with men if u ask me

last edited at Aug 3, 2022 2:12PM

Wow I wasn't expecting Kashiwai to just be upfront and admit to everything already to her coworker. I feel like it's only a matter of time before she breaks up with her fiance too since it seems she's accepted the reality that she is more than willing to give up her current life just to be with Tsuzuki.