yay the trans subplot is back. oh no, wanko’s being one of those “angry girl who automatically assumes the trans person is a dangerous pervert” characters. i appreciate sakuma being chill and even acknowledging that yes, trans women can also be attracted to women.

chapter 102 could probably do with a Transgender tag, like the last chapters featuring the same character. i really liked those chapters, especially the “ideal future” bit.

last edited at Feb 14, 2022 3:37AM

I didn't realize that's what Wanko was saying, but wow, yeah, that does come off as kinda shitty. I guess it's nice that it's just a character and not the author who thinks that.

Also, yeah, the family chapter, was that like a marriage meeting where the family all gets together?

The fuck you mean by "Things can turn violent if you let your guard down" ? I'm not sure i really understand, she is just talking about giving the skirt to the neighbor. What things can go violent ?

Dinner with a ghost.

And hopefully the little fan won't become the source of a big scandal - especially as an innocent girl like her might let slip too much information about her idol without realizing the consequences.

oh no, wanko’s being one of those “angry girl who automatically assumes the trans person is a dangerous pervert” characters.

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. But they're still physically a boy and it's easy enough to suspect something may happen if given an item like that. Too common in manga world to make one a "dangerous pervert", just more or less an average guy. And considering that...

i appreciate sakuma being chill and even acknowledging that yes, trans women can also be attracted to women.

Yes, doesn't even have to be a boy. Or even trans. Anyone with the potential to be attracted to you could use your used clothes in unspeakable ways, boy or girl. It's quite understandable that someone would not want used clothing of their loved one to end up in the hands of someone who knows her and can actually imagine her for such purposes.

I feel like I lost the thread of chapter 101 with regards to sakuma's family situation. Could somebody clarify?

Sakuma's Mom: Basically scum.
Sakuma's grandma: Dead
Sakuma's grandma's student: Had a thing for grandma and continues to take care of grandpa.
Sakuma's grandpa: Would rather have student for daughter than actual daughter.

Lots of goodness in these two chapters, from their families being invited to what I assume is a ''we're getting married'' get together , to Sakuma being kind and supportive with Kita-kun. This is a great heart warming way to start my work week ^_^

last edited at Feb 14, 2022 9:04AM

luinthoron posted:

Dinner with a ghost.

And hopefully the little fan won't become the source of a big scandal - especially as an innocent girl like her might let slip too much information about her idol without realizing the consequences.

oh no, wanko’s being one of those “angry girl who automatically assumes the trans person is a dangerous pervert” characters.

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. But they're still physically a boy and it's easy enough to suspect something may happen if given an item like that. Too common in manga world to make one a "dangerous pervert", just more or less an average guy. And considering that...

i appreciate sakuma being chill and even acknowledging that yes, trans women can also be attracted to women.

Yes, doesn't even have to be a boy. Or even trans. Anyone with the potential to be attracted to you could use your used clothes in unspeakable ways, boy or girl. It's quite understandable that someone would not want used clothing of their loved one to end up in the hands of someone who knows her and can actually imagine her for such purposes.

Yeah regardless of the character's background, the fact remains that they don't know them, they're not even friends at this point just acquaintances, just because the person is trans doesn't means virtuous and noble by default, but well, whatever there was also some jealousy involved so she's being extra doubtful.

Aaand thanks for the clarification about the family, that chapter came out of nowhere with the info dump and really left me confused.

I wouldnt be too harch with Wanko, she's young and kinda ditzy (on her best day) and she doesn't know Kita-kun at all outside of that one meeting in the elevator. For all she knows, he/she could be a perv looking to take advantage of Sakuma. I'm sure she'll warm up considerably to him/her now.

last edited at Feb 14, 2022 9:09AM

I just kept flipping back and forth between the last two pages of ch102, and laughing at Wanko's face.

Did Sakuma just forget that two women can date after literally asking her girlfriend to marry her about 2 days ago, with said girlfriend being in the same room? Heteronormativity is one hell of a drug

Wow, people here had a completely different read on Wanko's violence comment than I did. Her "think about what would happen if he wore that" line made me think more in terms of violence directed toward Kita from his friends or family, a very serious and real consideration.

blazedancer posted:

I feel like I lost the thread of chapter 101 with regards to sakuma's family situation. Could somebody clarify?

Here's what I got from it: The gentleman was Sakuma Elly's grandfather. Sakuma's mother apparently went off, got pregnant, then pretty much abandoned her right after birth, so Sakuma was raised by her grandparents. Hence the gentleman's comment that he would kick out his own daughter (Elly's mom) if she showed up. Her grandmother has since passed, and the other person (I don't think we have a name) is not related by blood; her connection to the family seems a bit odd.

last edited at Feb 14, 2022 10:22AM

Wow, people here had a completely different read on Wanko's violence comment than I did. Her "think about what would happen if he wore that" line made me think more in terms of violence directed toward Kita from his friends or family, a very serious and real consideration.

That is a very solid take.
For clarification, the original JP dialogue here is "油断してるとふりかかる暴力の話をしてるのっ"

Ahh my opinion of Wanko dropped quite a bit in this chapter... oh well. Hopefully she gets learnt soon.

As frustrating as Wanko's behavior here is, I do think it's important to remember that she's always been very jealous and threatened when it comes to her relationship with Sakuma. Especially when it comes to other women; we just had a chapter where she learned about Ataru's crush on Elly and didn't take it well.

So while this is definitely not a good look, I don't think it's transphobia so much as ignorance and insecurity. Hopefully, she'll grow out of it as Kita and their struggle gets more focus.

Elly is being naïve and Wanko is being realistic, but not in the way most seem to be interpreting things!

Goggled Anon posted:

Yuki Kitsune posted:

Wow, people here had a completely different read on Wanko's violence comment than I did. Her "think about what would happen if he wore that" line made me think more in terms of violence directed toward Kita from his friends or family, a very serious and real consideration.

That is a very solid take.
For clarification, the original JP dialogue here is "油断してるとふりかかる暴力の話をしてるのっ"

Wanko's concern appears to be FOR Kita-kun becoming the TARGET of transphobia.

I rarely get upset at the forums, but I feel like I'm seeing only the worst possible interpretation for that exchange, and it's quite saddening. Yes, Wanko is a little bundle of jealousy and insecurity at times, but I see her as being genuinely concerned for Kita-kun's well-being in this chapter.

Wanko's concern appears to be FOR Kita-kun becoming the TARGET of transphobia.

If that were the case, why does she say "things could turn violent if YOU let your guard down", and more significantly why does she look reflexively enraged when Kita shows up? If her primary motivator was concern FOR Kita, she wouldn't have that rage face...

That being said, the last page has this whole hostility/caution thing blown away lightly with "A relative of a fan is guaranteed to be a nice person", suggesting that Wanko immediately and resolutely switched to seeing Kita as a nice person. So I don't expect Wanko-being-hostile to be much of a thing in future chapters either way.

last edited at Feb 14, 2022 2:50PM

Wanko being more than a little immature and mercurial should be no news. She also has a certain tendency to make a big show of things without seriously meaning it, I seem to recall.

Wanko's concern appears to be FOR Kita-kun becoming the TARGET of transphobia.

If that were the case, why does she say "things could turn violent if YOU let your guard down", and more significantly why does she look reflexively enraged when Kita shows up?

a) Because Japanese sometimes omits pronouns making it tricky to determine who's talking about who when translating, assuming it's not intended to be vague.
b) Because Wanko is overprotective of Elly and considers even crows to be her enemy.

I rarely get upset at the forums, but I feel like I'm seeing only the worst possible interpretation for that exchange, and it's quite saddening. Yes, Wanko is a little bundle of jealousy and insecurity at times, but I see her as being genuinely concerned for Kita-kun's well-being in this chapter.

People are referring to a different line, the "things could turn violent" one.

The dialogue in this chapter is kind of baffling in general. I thiiiiink Wanko isn't even thinking of the kid as trans at all, and she's super-threatened by him because she sees him as a dude and assumes Elly would be into him because of that?

And yeah, Elly having to remind herself that women can be attracted to women is one of the most bizarre things I've read in a comic.

I'm a little confused by all their talking about Kita but I'm always interested to see more. I hope we get another arc with them soon

Wanko saying Kita might get violent if Sakuma lets her guard down would be incredibly out of character for her and for the manga and barely makes sense so I'm very inclined to believe that it's a fuzzy translation of a fuzzy line and her serious concern is for Kita getting assaulted.

Wanko's concern appears to be FOR Kita-kun becoming the TARGET of transphobia.

If that were the case, why does she say "things could turn violent if YOU let your guard down", and more significantly why does she look reflexively enraged when Kita shows up? If her primary motivator was concern FOR Kita, she wouldn't have that rage face...

"Let your guard down" as in giving her old clothes to Kita without considering the consequences. Elly seems to regard it as no big deal (a very pleasant, refreshing attitude, to be sure), while Wanko understands that there are dangers for Kita, especially if Elly is incautious and handles things too openly.

Granted, the rage face is a bit extreme. But the way Ikeda Takashi uses her wild mood swings and exaggerated facial expressions for comedic affect, I'm not sure how much I'd be willing to read into that.

last edited at Feb 14, 2022 3:51PM

Wanko's concern appears to be FOR Kita-kun becoming the TARGET of transphobia.

If that were the case, why does she say "things could turn violent if YOU let your guard down", and more significantly why does she look reflexively enraged when Kita shows up? If her primary motivator was concern FOR Kita, she wouldn't have that rage face...

"Let your guard down" as in giving her old clothes to Kita without considering the consequences. Elly seems to regard it as no big deal (a very pleasant, refreshing attitude, to be sure), while Wanko understands that there are dangers for Kita, especially if Elly is incautious and handles things too openly.

That, and (until next chapter at the earliest) Kita hasn't yet told Sakuma what decision they've reached regarding their gender identity and how they want to approach it, so just handing them a skirt might be somewhat inappropriate regardless.

Well I can't read Japanese so I can't get into the nuances of the original text, so I guess I have nothing more to say on which interpretation is right. But, wacky aside: On page 5 i think there's a joke that somehow went over my head, with Wanko saying "things could get violent", and then her being the one "getting violent" two panels later (with the intensity of her reaction making Sakuma say "Whoa").

last edited at Feb 14, 2022 4:45PM

To me the chapter just reads like standard anime/manga fare, not in any sort of bad way. "Teen boys are always horny!" - that's why you got all the constant crap like panty stealing and sniffing and peeping and whatnot and the excuse is always "boys will be boys". Heck, there's the entire thing about washing clothes separately for unfathomable reasons (I mean, sharing bath water is fine ...).

So Wanko's just the status quo position (and I'd further say the whole 油断 - that's seems to me to be often used "around men", have your guard/defense up, don't be vulnerable; they are all wolves, and perverts, and rapists, they'll devour you if you are careless for a second ... others will better judge this but I feel it's more likely that it would have been phrased differently if it wasn't meant that way), and Elly goes "doesn't apply here because trans/girls (so not a boy and not dangerous)", only to then have that "oh wait, that's not necessarily meaning anything now that I think about it" moment.

But, eh. Whatever.