Forum › I Favor the Villainess discussion

joined Dec 3, 2014

Damn, if this chapter already breeds this much discussion I can't wait for the inevitable shitstorm happened in the love rival arc, where Rei again made some really selfish and stupid decisions.

Also Rei is not as psychopatic as people suggest, it's just the price to pay is really extreme if she fails to keep up and her knowledge of Claire doom kind of put her on edge, and that was what made her resolved from the get go that no matter what she would do anything to keep Claire alive. It's not that she is not sympathetic to the commoners, she just knows it's already an inevitability and the fact that it's the direct cause of Claire death doesn't help. She is also a bit 'detached' from the world due to her being essentially an outsider..

last edited at Jan 29, 2022 10:40AM

Rae
joined Oct 7, 2021

Tbf, I never said Rei is a psychopath. There’s a significant difference between psychopaths and sociopaths.
One of my best friends is a diagnosed sociopath. She’s on the lower end of the scale, but she’s described to me that one of the symptoms for her is that she doesn’t feel the difference between right and wrong; like she has no internal conscience that makes her feel bad about having to do something wrong. She knows the difference, because she’s been able to learn it over time, she just doesn’t feel it. That’s what I see in Rei. Like my friend, Rei is super caring and kind, but she’d also feel little to no remorse about having to lie, cheat, steal, or make sacrifices to protect what’s important to her. This includes lying to (or omitting the truth) from a loved one without feeling bad about it

joined Jan 6, 2017

Tbf, I never said Rei is a psychopath. There’s a significant difference between psychopaths and sociopaths.
One of my best friends is a diagnosed sociopath. She’s on the lower end of the scale, but she’s described to me that one of the symptoms for her is that she doesn’t feel the difference between right and wrong; like she has no internal conscience that makes her feel bad about having to do something wrong. She knows the difference, because she’s been able to learn it over time, she just doesn’t feel it. That’s what I see in Rei. Like my friend, Rei is super caring and kind, but she’d also feel little to no remorse about having to lie, cheat, steal, or make sacrifices to protect what’s important to her. This includes lying to (or omitting the truth) from a loved one without feeling bad about it

Okay but none of the things you've said are "wrong" per say. It depends on context.
I certainly don't see them as "wrong" in the situation that she's in

Rae
joined Oct 7, 2021

What I’m getting at is that most of us would feel bad about lying to and manipulating a loved one, even if we believe it’s for their sake. Rei doesn’t feel bad about that at all, she sees it as a necessary part of her plan to keep Claire alive.

joined Jan 6, 2017

What I’m getting at is that most of us would feel bad about lying to and manipulating a loved one, even if we believe it’s for their sake. Rei doesn’t feel bad about that at all, she sees it as a necessary part of her plan to keep Claire alive.

I mean, I disagree with that also.

I think that Rei does feel bad about the things she does (mainly based on the climax of ch8) and I don't think that the things she does would warrant all that much an emotional reaction in the first place.
Also, she doesn't exactly value herself highly. So there's not much of a difference between her feeling bad about just living every day and her feeling bad about having to manipulate Claire.

That's at least how I interpret her character based on WN 1.

Rae
joined Oct 7, 2021

I’d argue that’s it’s not that Rei feels bad about anything she’s done in that part she feels upset, confused, and hurt that Claire would make such an illogical (in her mind) choice to die a meaningless death instead of trying to find happiness in a new life after the revolution (preferably with Rei by her side, although I think Rei was mentally prepared for that to not happen, but would be fine as long as Claire was safe). Her entire plan basically blows up in her face, and she can’t understand why at first. I don’t think that’s the same as feeling bad about what she did, more upset that what she did didn’t work.
But I mean that’s what I love about fiction, we can all interpret it in our own ways and I don’t think anyone’s interpretation is necessarily invalid.

joined Jan 6, 2017

To me those scenes read like Rei is hit with everything that happened all at once. i.e. all of the bad feelings she had pushed aside thus far kind of hit her at once due to that rejection. She did all of that stuff for Claire's sake but because she failed to actually think about what Claire might want she's now going to lose everything.

The main reason I interpret it all like that is because the finalé is about Rei learning to embrace her emotions instead of just pushing them aside. I think that my interpretation contrasts well with her feelings being the thing that she actually needed to save Claire.

last edited at Jan 29, 2022 3:11PM

Alice Cheshire Moderator
Dynasty_misc015
joined Nov 7, 2014

IrishBlend posted:

Tbf, I never said Rei is a psychopath. There’s a significant difference between psychopaths and sociopaths.

This is flat out wrong. Psychopathy = sociopathy = anti-social personality disorder. They're just terms that succeeded one another due to psycopathy and, eventually, sociopathy becoming more associated with serial killers than general sociopaths.

Rae
joined Oct 7, 2021

IrishBlend posted:

Tbf, I never said Rei is a psychopath. There’s a significant difference between psychopaths and sociopaths.

This is flat out wrong. Psychopathy = sociopathy = anti-social personality disorder. They're just terms that succeeded one another due to psycopathy and, eventually, sociopathy becoming more associated with serial killers than general sociopaths.

It isn't wrong, there's an overlap but they're still two separate things: https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-a-sociopath-380184#:~:text=The%20Difference%20Between%20Sociopath%20and,when%20it%20suits%20their%20needs.

Or another article here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7236162/ which has a segment that says, "Psychopathy is characterized by features that are not diagnostic criteria for AsPD, such as lack of empathy, arrogance and excessive vanity. Thus, not every psychopath necessarily has an antisocial personality disorder, but the construct psychopathy may include different traits of various types of personality disorders."

last edited at Jan 29, 2022 4:02PM

joined Apr 6, 2021

Alright this series has officially lost me. I don’t give two shits about a commoner revolution and class division. It’s been done before and done better. I got into the series because it was a fun dynamic and Rei was an interesting and quirky character, but she has become a generic Mary Sue who does whatever it takes to keep Claire safe. The magic and stuff with the princes was good, but this class war is not what I came to see. If I wanted to see people suffering from class division and revolution, I’d read a history book or look at Reddit. Not where I wanted to see from this story at all

joined Feb 1, 2013

As much as Clair can be a bit of a classicist bitch at times, it seems like no one else noticed her physical reaction to the poor guy who'd been burned... I mean, she's kind of in the background, while Rei is talking with him, but if you're looking at her, she visibly covers her mouth in horror when she sees him!

Honestly, in spite of all of her flaws, it seems to me that this 'version' of Claire (possible thanks largely to Rei's influence) is much more aware of things and empathetic- especially in comparison to her vanilla "in-game" self. I get this feeling that she would normally be this insufferable ojousama-type, but that Rei is 'nudging' her down a path that opens her eyes up to the reality of things. I think Claire is more a product of being sheltered than actually bad.

And honestly, she doesn't strike me as being a true genuine sadist... Despite how much our thirsty protagonist might want her to be. And what makes me think this is the case is the fact it increasingly seems that if Rei actually stood up to her and pushed back against her "mean girl" act, Claire wouldn't know what to do if she called her bluff!

joined Dec 3, 2014

Honestly, in spite of all of her flaws, it seems to me that this 'version' of Claire (possible thanks largely to Rei's influence) is much more aware of things and empathetic- especially in comparison to her vanilla "in-game" self

Actually, even now you can already pick up that despite Rei is coming from a place with a better moral system, Claire has always been the one who is more compassionate and empathetic between the 2, and this only becomes even more evident later on. Even in the novel Rei doesn't nudge her as much as show her information that she was deprived of and ignorant to because of her status, the choice has always been Claire's to make and not something Rei spoonfeeding to her.

last edited at Jan 30, 2022 3:03AM

Omochikaeri_thumb
joined Nov 2, 2013

Oh man the plot is going full force here, I kinda dig it. I really want to like Claire but shes bourgeoisie. I do wanna root for the commoners but at the same time I want my yuri. Gahhh

Please let claire become more likeable and notice the disparity between the classes.

Kimika3
joined Jan 1, 2019

It isn't wrong, there's an overlap but they're still two separate things: https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-a-sociopath-380184#:~:text=The%20Difference%20Between%20Sociopath%20and,when%20it%20suits%20their%20needs.

Distinctions between them aren't really universal and vary depending on who you ask though... its like arguing between "bi-weekly" and "bi-monthly" though both terms imply a lack of empathy and/or conscience... and are also relatively loaded. Rei is a bit less reticent when discussing the Philine situation so I tend to view that as a better barometer overall. There's also a nature vs nurture argument if we're comparing Oohashi Rei to Rei Taylor, or even Claire to Claire zero but I''d rather not get too into WN2 here.

In more important news though Inori re-released the 18+ chapters on their Fanbox so if you wanted to support now is as good a time as any.

Bildschirmfoto_2018-08-23_um_21.02.14
joined Jun 13, 2012

Oh man the plot is going full force here, I kinda dig it. I really want to like Claire but shes bourgeoisie. I do wanna root for the commoners but at the same time I want my yuri. Gahhh

Please let claire become more likeable and notice the disparity between the classes.

I think Claire already started to change in this chapter and starts to understand that her former believes might not be as moral as she thought (you can clearly see how shocked she was, when she learned about the super mild punishment).

I noticed that during this series, Claire changes very subtle, almost to the point, that it is so slow that you don't even actively recognize it while reading through the chapters. This can be seen in how she slowly warms up to Rei and goes along with here demands more and more. I really like those slow character developments. They feel more real, since in real life, people are also not changing fast. A change always needs time to build and I think this is portrayed very well in this series.

Alice Cheshire Moderator
Dynasty_misc015
joined Nov 7, 2014

IrishBlend posted:

IrishBlend posted:

Tbf, I never said Rei is a psychopath. There’s a significant difference between psychopaths and sociopaths.

This is flat out wrong. Psychopathy = sociopathy = anti-social personality disorder. They're just terms that succeeded one another due to psycopathy and, eventually, sociopathy becoming more associated with serial killers than general sociopaths.

It isn't wrong, there's an overlap but they're still two separate things: https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-a-sociopath-380184#:~:text=The%20Difference%20Between%20Sociopath%20and,when%20it%20suits%20their%20needs.

Or another article here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7236162/ which has a segment that says, "Psychopathy is characterized by features that are not diagnostic criteria for AsPD, such as lack of empathy, arrogance and excessive vanity. Thus, not every psychopath necessarily has an antisocial personality disorder, but the construct psychopathy may include different traits of various types of personality disorders."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

both manuals provide similar criteria for diagnosing the disorder.[9] Both have also stated that their diagnoses have been referred to, or include what is referred to, as psychopathy or sociopathy.

Some might use the terms to mean different things but that doesn't change the fact that the general consensus is that they are the same.

20210429_051959
joined May 18, 2021

Hell yeah, the conflict is getting interesing e_e

joined Jan 14, 2020

I really want to like Claire but shes bourgeoisie

...isn't she literally nobility?

The bourgeoisie would be the ones leading this revolution.

4
joined Nov 21, 2018

Lene: "Don't tell me you're also..."

Is she a reincarnation too????

I took that to mean that Lene thinks Rei is also a traitor like her brother. No idea if that's accurate though.

joined Sep 7, 2021

Wait.. wasn't this made into an anime..

Img_8812564559060
joined Oct 6, 2015

I just finished the web novel. It left me with so many questions but I still love it nonetheless. fave part would be their first night looool i still don't understand why she chose to be demon queen tho ugh oh well. I thought the love square was depressing but the time loop is more depressing and confusing.

Reisen%20ds
joined Nov 30, 2016

Enjoying the series while it still on the cute side. Delving through the LN currently and omg, the dark tone is real. And Rei's past is like a depressing manga spinoff.

The summary on the back of volume 2 of the manga calls it "the next installment of this ridiculously heartwarming rom-com about a girl who's all-in for her favorite character." That's worth a glorious Naga laugh, or at least a chuckle, for the poor editor who wrote it. Someone at Seven Seas is in for a wild ride when they read the rest of the series.

For Rei, she thinks that the world is programmed to only give her a romantic route with the princes and the Claire is treated as a villainess for the entire plot, so she thinks her romantic route for Claire is non-existent.

Its true that she's been stifled by the sequence of events at times but she tries to help Claire get closer to Thane as well so its clear she thinks she can change things. She just doesn't see herself by Claire's side, and is pretty candid about that.

She's hard to compare to other villainess or isekai protagonists though she references Main/Myne from Ascendance of a Bookworm in the WN.

I totally missed this, when is Myne referenced? Something to do with a printing press?

Kimika3
joined Jan 1, 2019

She's hard to compare to other villainess or isekai protagonists though she references Main/Myne from Ascendance of a Bookworm in the WN.

I totally missed this, when is Myne referenced? Something to do with a printing press?

Shampoo actually. This is from the LN actually but:

Incidentally, there was no shampoo or conditioner in this world. People used soap to wash their hair, but it was made differently from the kind in my world and could get hair just as clean as the products I was more familiar with. I’d read a lot of stories of people transported to other worlds setting up shop to sell homemade shampoo and conditioner, but that wasn’t my cup of tea.

Ayuyu
joined Dec 20, 2016

Incidentally, there was no shampoo or conditioner in this world. People used soap to wash their hair, but it was made differently from the kind in my world and could get hair just as clean as the products I was more familiar with. I’d read a lot of stories of people transported to other worlds setting up shop to sell homemade shampoo and conditioner, but that wasn’t my cup of tea.

Wait, she doesn't like Honzuki no Gekokujou? Rei isn't woman of culture

Kimika3
joined Jan 1, 2019

Incidentally, there was no shampoo or conditioner in this world. People used soap to wash their hair, but it was made differently from the kind in my world and could get hair just as clean as the products I was more familiar with. I’d read a lot of stories of people transported to other worlds setting up shop to sell homemade shampoo and conditioner, but that wasn’t my cup of tea.

Wait, she doesn't like Honzuki no Gekokujou? Rei isn't woman of culture

Lol no just making shampoo wasn't her cup of tea. She had better like Bookworm... I'm assuming Inori is a fan at least if she's giving a shout out.

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