Forum › Citrus + discussion

Capturedsfdsss_x213
joined Mar 16, 2018

I like how this is one of those series where the forum discussion is arguably more entertaining and certainly had more thought put into it than the actual manga.

Lol
This is so true

Just as much unnecessary drama, though.

I miss that unnecessary drama, that's when the series was the most fun

Reisen%20ds
joined Nov 30, 2016

Literary analysis sometimes means you have to read between the lines

Literary analysis means you have to tie any point you make, below or on the surface of the work in question, directly to the text itself. Ain't no professor or journal will accept it otherwise. (I kid, of course. Literary journals aren't known for their rigor.) Read between the lines, but tie it back

So I guess subtext just doesn't exist?

Essentially, no, it does not. That's literally the point of subtext. "Subtext" is a fandom term wholly outside of the field and methods of literary study, likely because it's vague and used to obscure discussion. And to talk about ships and write fanfiction. It's not really a tool for established works.

last edited at Sep 20, 2021 8:30PM

Descarga%20(3)
joined Aug 10, 2015

the only explanation that i have is that mei is secretly a meguca hence why she lives in constant suffering and always looks tired and sick of everything because she fights wtiches everyday until morning

Descarga%20(3)
joined Aug 10, 2015

Like, stop your fucking bullshit about "you just want them to have sex" Mei is being an awful partner, is inconsiderateand doesn't try in the least to reciprocate yuzu's feelings

well to be fair that´s consistent with her charaterization so far . On the other hand yuzu seems to expect less and less of mei every chapter like she used to look pretty dejected whenever mei gave her the cold shoulder, it feels like she realize that she´s not getting any emotional fullfillment from mei so she doesn´t bother triying anymore

last edited at Sep 20, 2021 10:54PM

1eafaf94d436491c31016c4e6ce47819
joined May 16, 2012

hmm, I wonder if Mei's personality or characterization was based on a cluster C personality disorder she got all the signs: terrified of abandonment/rejection, shy, passive, avoid confrontation, overcontrolled (not just with emotions but with other things in life).

Brave_nehsafphnw
joined Dec 27, 2013

"Well I am your older sister! Plus I'm your girlfriend, and right now, your newlywed bride!"

...r/brandnewsentence

last edited at Sep 21, 2021 3:56AM

Brave_nehsafphnw
joined Dec 27, 2013

I like how this is one of those series where the forum discussion is arguably more entertaining and certainly had more thought put into it than the actual manga.

Lol
This is so true

Just as much unnecessary drama, though.

I'd say the forum has more

fax onli no printer

E05aff7c1334de03865ce183142c84b52
joined Feb 6, 2014

Yuzu should break up with Mei. She just give her more without any reciprocate. My heart is breaks for Yuzu to see her suffering.
Mei had a week to do her f work, forgot her fiancée's birthday and not even try to change or be better for sake of Yuzu. Maybe a little bit... but It feels a truly one sided love.
Mei character is not improved, morover is worse than before, still an emotionally crippled person who would screw with anybody who is pushing her a little bit, like happened with Amemiya sensei. About Yuzu... Yuzu is an intresting toy for her which is recently discovered, do not know what to do with it, where to place it, so... when needed she takes out, when not, put back into the drawer.

joined Jan 14, 2020

Ditch the Meibot, Yuzu! Go to the one who appreciates you, Harumin!

6dc89f5c-43ac-44ad-a0d6-fe9ddf4f2fb2
joined Sep 2, 2021

I understand that Mei is a cold person, both in expression and feelings; and yes that can get annoying sometimes. But I cannot just brush past the many events that happened in the book.

Mei has not always been depicted as as a "cold person"--quite the contrary. She has been depicted as a very repressed person who hides her vulnerabilities, but Mei's initial characterization in the original series was that she was a highly passionate person underneath all that repression.

She was not always portrayed as someone who was profoundly clueless about other people's feelings, either. The basic emotional dynamic of the initial series was that Yuzu not only helped Mei open up about her feelings but also helped her to channel her previously untapped passion into an affectionate relationship with her stepsister.

That's why the trembling, socially clueless, sexually naive Mei of Citrus + is so frustrating--the issue isn't that the two don't have sex (although even Matsuri thinks that step is long overdue), it's that Mei seems to have regressed in maturity by about a half-dozen years and also to have forgotten why she ever embarked on a relationship with Yuzu in the first place.

And to clarify--I'm not criticizing Mei Aihara as an imaginary person; I've always thought that Mei was by far the (potentially) most interesting character in the series. I'm criticizing the author's execution of Mei's characterization, which I think has been inconsistent and basically a botched job ever since that second arranged marriage came out of nowhere.

You’re right. I know this has been said a lot, but I agree with it so I’m going to say it again, Saburouta forgot how to write Mei as a character.

6dc89f5c-43ac-44ad-a0d6-fe9ddf4f2fb2
joined Sep 2, 2021

This was an adorable chapter.

Yuzu really cranked up the gay in this chapter and is pretty heartwarming to see how much she loves Mei. That said, I don't think she was really wanting to fuck but rather she was just doing all the corny shit she undoubtedly picked up from an extremely fluffy shoujo manga.

I disagree with the idea that Mei is cold or uninterested towards Yuzu, it has been clear for a while now that she also adores Yuzu but she just doesn't know how to properly express it and her laser focus on living up to the Aihara's family name has left her completely lost when it comes to romance. But she's really trying to learn for Yuzu's sake.

Also, I love how Sub draws them looking older now.

Oh, and thank you so much Megumiaki for joining Chaosteam as the series' translator.

This right here, you deserve this cute flower(oh crap they don’t let us put emojis, we’ll imagine a cute pink flower)

last edited at Sep 22, 2021 12:03AM

6dc89f5c-43ac-44ad-a0d6-fe9ddf4f2fb2
joined Sep 2, 2021

Yuzu should break up with Mei. She just give her more without any reciprocate. My heart is breaks for Yuzu to see her suffering.
Mei had a week to do her f work, forgot her fiancée's birthday and not even try to change or be better for sake of Yuzu. Maybe a little bit... but It feels a truly one sided love.
Mei character is not improved, morover is worse than before, still an emotionally crippled person who would screw with anybody who is pushing her a little bit, like happened with Amemiya sensei. About Yuzu... Yuzu is an intresting toy for her which is recently discovered, do not know what to do with it, where to place it, so... when needed she takes out, when not, put back into the drawer.

I hope you are joking because... Yuzu isn’t* suffering, I think her smiles at Mei(talking about work) is like a wholesome smile. In a way Yuzu likes it when Mei is studious. Mei didn’t forget about Yuzu’s birthday, their mother had business to do so she was going to delay the celebration; she had Mei tell Yuzu. Needless to say, Yuzu was pretty bummed out about it. But no one forgot anything. And lastly, tell me what you have against Kuuderes.

last edited at Sep 22, 2021 12:09AM

joined Aug 15, 2021

hmm i never read this series and just look at the latest chapter and i can get a gist of it....

so why is this yuzu girl love this mei so much ? is mei her hero or save her life or what ?

i know its fiction called manga but looking at the latest chapter is so ridiculous, no one ever can loved someone like mei's attitude, this girl is completely ignore the other girl feeling. it's so stupid or more blowing imagination than "a kissing photo for blackmail in NTR hentai story plot" that you can say "i love you" so many time in a day to this kind of human.

but yeah if this mei girl saving suzu's life (literally between death & life) or owing a huge debt to her, i can understand it but if it otherwise, it's stupid, way too stupid.

005ejqrjgy1fzoq9y1j6fj319c1sw7sj-
joined Jul 6, 2018

^read the whole manga before complaining lmaoooo

joined Nov 11, 2020

hmm i never read this series and just look at the latest chapter and i can get a gist of it....

so why is this yuzu girl love this mei so much ? is mei her hero or save her life or what ?

i know its fiction called manga but looking at the latest chapter is so ridiculous, no one ever can loved someone like mei's attitude, this girl is completely ignore the other girl feeling. it's so stupid or more blowing imagination than "a kissing photo for blackmail in NTR hentai story plot" that you can say "i love you" so many time in a day to this kind of human.

but yeah if this mei girl saving suzu's life (literally between death & life) or owing a huge debt to her, i can understand it but if it otherwise, it's stupid, way too stupid.

..how about you read the manga from the very beginning first till the end lol, then throughout it you'll find your answer xD

you'll understand why when you perfectly get the characters' personalities

F4x-3lwx0aa0tcu31
joined Apr 20, 2013

I've been reading the comments lately for my own amusement, except the last critic above who didn't even read the manga or he did and is just trolling and should be ignored completely.

But people, you're all going too far, and I said this as one of those who called Mei a robot last year, but back then we all reached a silent agreement that their pace and love was just not meant for us anymore but to the remaining fans who are actually enjoying this, and that we, the antifans were reading this only to see if Harumin and Matsuri get together too, I'm sure you all can find a better use of your time than being angry at Mei or the author or at least not bother those who are just trying to have a good time, remember that Chaos Team once considered not to post in dynasty anymore.

Yes I agree that Mei's development is using the "2 steps back and 1 step forward" formula to give us an illusion of progress, but Yuzu loves her enough to wait whatever time necessary for both of them to be ready, could be months or years, is up to them, there isn't a time limit (But we also know it will paid off eventually).

And like the other person said, this is a Kuudere case, or in Mei's case someone who's heart was damaged and then healed like new by Yuzu, but now she needs to learn everything from zero the proper way (still it IS the 2 steps back and 1 forward way). They don't dislike each others and they don't try to hurt each others.

If you want to redirect your hatred of frustration it should be to Maid Dragon for example, it fits more to what some of you are describing, that's a real case of someone giving 200% love while the other will once a month give 5%, a headpat if anything, because most of the times Kobayashi is angry at Tohru for trying to get a hug, for having big breast or trying to go on a date, she rather stays home sleeping or watching tv that going on a date with the person that loves her and that she supposedly loves back.

Similar case with Yui and Kyoko from Yuru yuri ( Kyoko x Ayano is the best btw), 90 % of the times that Kyoko tries to get attention she's countered with a "ugghhh such a pain!" or Get off me!. Yui and Kobayashi can be seen clearly disgusted and angry when they receive affection, but I never get that from Mai, she just doesn't know how to respond, she gets afraid and decides not to act at all and Yuzu knows this, that's why she waits.

So yeah, TLDR just skips the chapters with Yuzu and Mei if you don't like them, I think we've been proved time and time again that their relationship is what it is and you would be a fool for expecting huge changes.

E05aff7c1334de03865ce183142c84b52
joined Feb 6, 2014

No hatred, no frustration, just my honest opinion. No need to agree and accept other persons thoughts. Everybody see it from different aspects.

Pocchi-avatar2
joined Jun 15, 2021

This chapter finally gives us a glimpse about what Yuzu (and Mei) wants. "Newly Wed" is an "Excuse", what Yuzu does is to play "wife". More importantly, play "wife" with a busy workaholic spouse. This is her ideal future, so it is a dry run. This is the meaning of what they tell themselves, "My future is your future too". Mei is much more subtle. She being busy every day is going to be a regular thing once she takes over the school board. So what she does is "My future is your future too". Both of them act not just for themselves individually, but rather as a couple. Nothing says it more than the final panel of this chapter. This is the first time they sleep together as if being a couple, as opposed to 2 years of "I sleep this side, you sleep that side".

Sex...
Sex was never a "good" topic in this manga, that is because Mei is a survivor, and there is no sign of her improving of that front...or rather, in a snail pace". But the most important part is that, we the readers have outgrow the manga. 2013 to 2018...and then nobody, including the author, would thought that the manga was popular enough to warrant a sequel. This is not easy, because at the time, the original series has already give us the wedding epilogue, that means whatever happens between Mei and Yuzu. they will always resolve any conflict between themselves.

Right now is 2021, on its ninth year, the only Yuri that is older than Citrus is YuruYuri and then, Murciélago by a few months. . That means most of us are already in our 20s, and some of us definitely have reach the other demographics (josei). Either way we expect sex will be there in a Romantic Yuri. But the plot is still slow, Time wise we are barely finished 2 years of the manga time. (Yuzu transferred AFTER the semester has already started, and she has just turned 16). If you started reading this manga when you are 18 (or senior high 3 year), you will be 27 by now. As a 27 year old, you are reading a manga with characters still in their senior high school. Is it fair to add sex as a plot between 2 17 years old, or worse a 15 and an 18 years old (Matsuri and Harumin)? Assuming when you start to read the manga as the correct target audience (junior high), you cannot really draw for an audience of Junior High anymore anymore, because that audience would be 24 or 25 years old. Then we need to look at reality...how many 17 years old friends you have have gone all the way? and I do not mean fooling around. Sex is definitely not a topic in the beginning because Yuzu was 16, Mei was 15. Matsuri (the incarnation of sexual desire...coined by Harumin) was 14 or maybe 13.
So in the end it is not the author to be blamed. The entire plot is still about the two MC barely started out on their 3 year of senior high. There is just so much sex that you can draw. Given Mei is a sexual assault victim, I do not expect the two of them will have sex until much much later in life. Yuzu is not exactly crazy and desperate about sex in the first place. This make the two of them much more easier to be together.

last edited at Sep 22, 2021 10:19PM

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

So “Mei is a sexual assault survivor” is just a flat-out fact now, huh?

What we do know for sure is that Mei was once subjected to an unwelcome kiss by her then-fiancé.

By that standard, Yuzu is the victim of multiple sexual assaults, as is Matsuri, with Mei as the perpetrator in both cases.

(Yes, I know that in a real-life court of law unwelcome kissing is in fact a form of sexual assault. But if you’re going to use what we saw happen in the text of Citrus as an explanation for a fictional character’s psychology, you also need to take the entire text into account.)

Ykn1
joined Dec 20, 2018

Honestly, any assumption of Mei being a victim of anything more than unwelcome kisses, and even those likely would have been fine with her if she hadn't already known about his other woman, goes flat-out against the actual text with the guy specifically saying he'd "treat her nicely", and this not to someone he'd need to hide his true plans from but to his actual lover, not to mention that causing any such trouble could jeopardize his plans.

joined Jan 6, 2017

What we do know for sure is that Mei was once subjected to an unwelcome kiss by her then-fiancé.

Yes, that is sexual assault

By that standard, Yuzu is the victim of multiple sexual assaults, as is Matsuri, with Mei as the perpetrator in both cases.

Yes again.

F4x-3lwx0aa0tcu31
joined Apr 20, 2013

luinthoron posted:

Honestly, any assumption of Mei being a victim of anything more than unwelcome kisses, and even those likely would have been fine with her if she hadn't already known about his other woman, goes flat-out against the actual text with the guy specifically saying he'd "treat her nicely", and this not to someone he'd need to hide his true plans from but to his actual lover, not to mention that causing any such trouble could jeopardize his plans.

Thanks for the clarification, the way some were trying to make it worse to fit their theories was getting creepy

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

What we do know for sure is that Mei was once subjected to an unwelcome kiss by her then-fiancé.

Yes, that is sexual assault

By that standard, Yuzu is the victim of multiple sexual assaults, as is Matsuri, with Mei as the perpetrator in both cases.

Yes again.

So what? We’re supposed to believe that Mei becomes a “broken bird” because of an incident that is never mentioned or alluded to again, while the same violation pushes Yuzu’s “I must be a lesbian!” button and sparks Matsuri’s “Aha, a foe worthy of my steel” reaction?

I’ve previously made the case that Saburouta is a lazy and sloppy writer, but you “sexual assault” people have outdone me exponentially.

last edited at Sep 23, 2021 8:34AM

Bubbles
joined Oct 1, 2020

That's not how newlyweds are supposed to end the day!

Pocchi-avatar2
joined Jun 15, 2021

I concluded Mei is a sex assault victim not because of a kiss. But rather the time when she offered sex to Yuzu and told her she will be gentle. That means she has experience in sex, not just fooling around. There is also the fact that she considered sex as some sort of reward for whoever she offer, or a business transaction. This is abnormal. Anyone who has been sexually assaulted (I mean rape, not kissing and groping, there is no "be gentle" kiss or grope) as a teen will immediately recognize that...you do not even need to be a therapist to know that vibe. I myself am a victim, without telling the more personal stuff, I have behavior that resembled Mei's. So did many of my female friends and a very small number of male friends.
The irony is of course, Amamiya did NOT break any law. Japanese become adults at age 20. So if there is any sexual relationship between someone who is 14 and another who is 39, it is totally legal as long as both persons plan to get married. Amamiya is a fiance that was most likely chosen by gramps. So being a fiance it is totally legal to have sex with a 14 years old. Also, the double irony: If Harumin reach 20, and Matsuri is still 17, it can be considered a crime since there is no homosexual marriage in Japan, even though the country does have a partnership system.

Of course my assumption and conclusion can be all wrong, but then again I would not suggest you to experienced being raped (male or female) to understand the mentality. Most of you are in your late teens to early 30s anyway. Being sexually assaulted as an adult (say, mid 30s) is totally different when it comes to psychological trauma. I know, because....

last edited at Sep 23, 2021 10:17AM

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