I feel kind of offended by that "a man has to be a hunter and shoot things dead to be a man" stereotype.

I feel kind of offended by that "a man has to be a hunter and shoot things dead to be a man" stereotype.

The crux in this manga isn't just that, it's also the inverse: "a hunter who shoots things dead has to be a man".

This one was a bit shaky at first, especially with the whole youtuber aspect that's just sort of there, but it really finds its footing. Always a pleasure to have more trans manga out there, especially a longer one like this.

"I don't want to die in this body" I remember this feeling so strongly, it chokes me up

GET CHIAKI A GIRLFRIEND 2021

I almost thought he was gonna shoot the camera at page 84, but that would probably risk Youtube demonetization.

I feel kind of offended by that "a man has to be a hunter and shoot things dead to be a man" stereotype.

i think the whole "men hunt and kill things" is a personal thing for Chiaki. by his personal standards and the standards of his father he has to be a man to hunt and has to hunt to be a man. the manga isn't telling the reader "you have to hunt and kill to be a man". but rather it's chiakis's father who is telling him specifically. i mean, chiaki even mentions female hunters so. not to invalidate your offense I just think it's meant to be taken as a personal matter rather than a stereotype in this context.

I think the main reason for the overly sexist attitude of the father is so that when he finally takes Chiaki hunting, it is proof that he accepts Chiaki as his son.

One of the best oneshots I've read in a while

Haaa i want to cry, but im outside now

For what it's worth, GID is not a diagnosis in the DSM for almost 8 years at this point. I don't know how it is in Japan though, maybe they still do that. The more accepted term now is "gender dysphoria", which more accurately describes the problem as the dysphoria felt about one's body rather than the identity discrepancy itself.

In japan a GID diagnosis is still the only legal way to change your name, gender marker and legally get surgery. I learned a lot about it from the autobio manga "the bride was a boy"

Wow is there ever a lot of people making wild judgment calls and heavily stereotyped reading of this manga in the comments. It’s one person’s singular experience with being trans. No, he wouldn’t have been A-OK with being in a female body if he’d been allowed to do “boy things” as a child. If that was a possibility, he wouldn’t have received the diagnosis he did. No, the underlying theme was not “hunting makes you a man”. That was a personal feeling for Chiaki and was derived more from his desire to be accepted as his hunter father’s son. And the fact that Chiaki was depicted as very feminine wasn’t some kind of “super girly tomboys are secretly trans!” BS. It’s just how some people deal with their messed up heads. Or are you going to say that it’s BS to depict a lesbian getting knocked up by some random dude because she sleeps around with guys while trying to convince herself (and possibly everyone around her) that she’s not gay?

It’s a manga. The methods of telling the story are limited. You’re only getting the picture drawn by the artist and the words put down by the writer. That’s it. Stop condemning one of the very few decent portrayals of someone going through transitioning just because you as a cis person think it needs to somehow be more psychoanalytical or maybe just don’t get it at all. You don’t have to get it! It’s not your story!

this is insanely good! the hunting and butchering aspects really came together with the gender identity

Is it ok, to not understand conflict? Maybe main transgenders problem is that most of us can't understand their problem?

My understanding of Japan is that they're honestly pretty conservative (you notice Chiaki was sterilized during his gender confirmation surgery, that's basically mandatory in Japan if you transition) on issues and so an old doctor using outdated terms isn't surprising.

Hell, I'm transitioning in the US, and my endocrinologist here tried to point me to the Harry Benjamin standards of care instead of the current WPATH ones. I wouldn't be surprised to see this sort of thing in any transition story, in any context, ever, much less one specifically set in Japan.

IAKi100atT posted:

^^I reread it and I think so too. A lot of it seems to be an everlasting psychological trauma from being exposed to the dad's ridiculous sexism and heteronormativity at a very young age (which continued into the future). It also seemed like Chiaki's body dysphoria (on page 58) is driven by external factors (sexism) rather than internal feelings of discomfort and disconnect.

Every cis weirdo thinks they’re a psychoanalyst whenever trans people are concerned I swear

To be fair, cis people love to think they're a psychoanalyst when faced with plenty of others problems, too.

maz-brazil posted:

Is it ok, to not understand conflict? Maybe main transgenders problem is that most of us can't understand their problem?

Yeah, of course it's okay. As a cis person, you're unlikely to ever truly understand what a given trans person goes through. If you were a trans person, I imagine there are plenty of other trans people you'd never truly understand, either. You don't need to understand someone to treat them with respect, kindness or acceptance. That's (mostly) what matters.

^^I reread it and I think so too. A lot of it seems to be an everlasting psychological trauma from being exposed to the dad's ridiculous sexism and heteronormativity at a very young age (which continued into the future). It also seemed like Chiaki's body dysphoria (on page 58) is driven by external factors (sexism) rather than internal feelings of discomfort and disconnect.

Every cis weirdo thinks they’re a psychoanalyst whenever trans people are concerned I swear

What is it with the smug name-calling? I am trans and what makes you think trans people can't analyze a serious story critically instead of writing one-line trite reviews?

last edited at Apr 4, 2021 3:09AM

This was a very good read. Thank you for all the hard work put into this.

last edited at Apr 4, 2021 2:58AM

This isn't really anything like what I normally read. But I'm so happy I did.

^^I reread it and I think so too. A lot of it seems to be an everlasting psychological trauma from being exposed to the dad's ridiculous sexism and heteronormativity at a very young age (which continued into the future). It also seemed like Chiaki's body dysphoria (on page 58) is driven by external factors (sexism) rather than internal feelings of discomfort and disconnect.

Every cis weirdo thinks they’re a psychoanalyst whenever trans people are concerned I swear

What is it with the smug name-calling? I am trans and what makes you think trans people can't analyze a serious story critically instead of writing one-line trite reviews?

It's a read that's really diminishing transness, which comes across as a cis perspective. He obviously was quite aware of what he wanted his self and body to become from an early age, and the menstruation scenes reiterated that. His father, like any slow to accept parent of someone LGBTQ+, really doesnt really have any bearing on that. It's like claiming the gay character was gay because their parents were homophobic or whatever. I dont think you want to go around positing that trauma induces dysphoria and laying downg some terfy / agp "rationalizations" for trans people existing (and thus a way for us to not exist is nownon the table). Whatever "nurture" may be out there to determine our identities is not something we can or should know, and aren't within our power to manipulate. While some trans people have their trauma, that's concurrence, not cause. I have traumatic shit with my parents in reaction to who I am:, but that really didnt form who I am, and the one shot works the same.

What is it with the smug name-calling? I am trans and what makes you think trans people can't analyze a serious story critically instead of writing one-line trite reviews?

Following your critical analysis apparently you're not trans, just traumatized /s

last edited at Apr 4, 2021 8:05AM

OrangePekoe posted:

...which is all to say, in spite of the newish artist, this is a notable magazine with notable names writing a pretty real trans story. I've no idea what kind of precedent there is for this, but I was really pleased to take note of it, anyway.

It's a male transgender story on top of that. A very rare sight in any media.

Ok, it's getting a bit out of hand...

IAKi100atT posted:

This really says a lot about the society in which we live

IAKi100atT posted:

Every cis weirdo thinks they’re a psychoanalyst whenever trans people are concerned I swear

cyberninjasio posted:

Wow is there ever a lot of people making wild judgment calls and heavily stereotyped reading of this manga in the comments.

Stop condemning one of the very few decent portrayals of someone going through transitioning just because you as a cis person think it needs to somehow be more psychoanalytical or maybe just don’t get it at all. You don’t have to get it! It’s not your story!

SillieHonka posted:

I dont think you want to go around positing that trauma induces dysphoria and laying downg some terfy / agp "rationalizations" for trans people existing (and thus a way for us to not exist is nownon the table).

Deus posted:

Following your critical analysis apparently you're not trans, just traumatized /s

I understand being touchy on the subject and having to deal with people who try to attack or erase you all the time, but don't you think you guys are taking it a bit too far? Nobody from people who expressed their doubts about story said that trauma makes you trans or tried to excuse trans people existing. Those comments were actually very civil and only pointing out story relied heavily on showing Chiaki's dysphoria through social pressure and norms, rather than his own discomfort with his body. I can see where those commenters are coming from, as line between not fitting into stereotypes and not identifying with your assigned gender can be very thin. That's what puberty is for. Having conflicted feelings about one's own identity and the way other perceive you is a common experience when you're still in process of figuring out yourself. Some people go through phase when they think they want to be opposite gender, but over time they come to realize they're actually fine the way they are and might even love being their assigned gender.

My point is, those people clearly just weren't sold on the premise this story sold and had their own interpretation of it, which is completely valid. Just because story is about trans issues it doesn't mean it has to be a good story or even accurate for that matter. Especially when you're unfamiliar or not as knowledge about subject, some things might be easy to miss or not as clear as to other people. When I read it first time I just read it with clear understanding Chiaki is trans and never questioned it, but reading those comments did make me realize, there weren't a lot of examples when Chiaki was experiencing his dysphoria without it being tied to society's perception of what is and isn't allowed for men and women. That doesn't mean he isn't trans, as social norms are one of the biggest source of dysphoria for many trans people, but I can see how to someone that might seem like that was the only case of it and wonder, if had Chiaki not experience it, would he actually still feel the way he feels. It's perfectly normal to question character's consistency and believability.

The proper way to react to it is giving a explanation how their interpretation might be flawed or what they might miss in the story, like those comments:

daydream_dog94 posted:

i think the whole "men hunt and kill things" is a personal thing for Chiaki. by his personal standards and the standards of his father he has to be a man to hunt and has to hunt to be a man. the manga isn't telling the reader "you have to hunt and kill to be a man". but rather it's chiakis's father who is telling him specifically. i mean, chiaki even mentions female hunters so. not to invalidate your offense I just think it's meant to be taken as a personal matter rather than a stereotype in this context.

Lap posted:

I think the main reason for the overly sexist attitude of the father is so that when he finally takes Chiaki hunting, it is proof that he accepts Chiaki as his son.

You can easily do it without jumping to talking/looking down on those people. If they actually wrote straight transphobic things, I can understand being offended, but this is nowhere near requiring such strong reaction.

last edited at Apr 4, 2021 3:46PM

Deus posted:

What is it with the smug name-calling? I am trans and what makes you think trans people can't analyze a serious story critically instead of writing one-line trite reviews?

Following your critical analysis apparently you're not trans, just traumatized /s

While I understand how this could be meant in "good fun," I'd rather we didn't go there. Besides writing that this content was heavily relatable, けやき坂46 has already noted that he's a trans man previously on this site. He never said that all trans people come from trauma, or that he comes from trauma. Even if he did, that would be his understanding of his reality. Nobody should be denied that.

last edited at Apr 4, 2021 10:39AM

Takatou is such a bro for switching with the bloodied pants.

Damn this is surreal. Got me lots of thinking, but also makes me a bit sick in the stomach.

nice