I used to be on the "the violence isn't that bad, it's poor slapstick at most!" side, but now that I'm seeing Minami /blame herself/ for being beat up by her partner /for being insecure/? I mean, if you needed a physical release or to "make her realise what she's saying", a slight flick on the forehead would have sufficed, Iori. I get the sensation of "you idiot how can you be saying this when you know I love you??", but I'd never muster up the energy to hit someone I love when they're clearly having a vulnerable moment. I've been in Minami's place A LOT, and I'd be pretty mad to get hit, tbh. (then again, I don't completely hate myself.)

Ya, this chap went way into the Dude Not Funny and Unfortunate Implications territory.

isn't Iori kinda violence ?

isn't Iori kinda violence ?

What gave you that impression?

e: Reading this again she's way less violent than I remembered it.

last edited at Apr 30, 2020 3:34PM

Many of you guys are only focusing on the violence, but the premise seems to be exaggerated a bit. See in the beginning of the manga Iori is shown to have gone through a lot of failed relationships (especially to married guys), and had given up on happiness. But then Minami shows up and things seem to have finally settled, they both really love each other and are scared about it due to their own bad histories. In Minami's case, her mom pretty much abandoned her and for Iori she always seem to find herself in toxic relations. Both of the girls are scared that the other will leave, so Minami sometimes say things "be with someone else that makes you(Iori) happy", to make herself mentally prepared if it happens, while Iori gets pissed that Minami tells her to do the very thing that all the other guys in her(Iori's) previous relationship did to her.

Again the theme is exaggerated in this manga. There are cultures where pinching ears or slapping on the hand are done out of affection and there are cultures where 'tough love' is hitting with belts/slippers if you get a bad score on an exam is common (it happened to me and I was beaten like hell by my mom).

Look being abusive is wrong plain and simple but there is a line that determines if the act is too far, and in the recent chapter this 'abuse' was a "slap" that was exaggerated to create impact for the plot. This manga has a depth to it that is hard to convey in four pages every chapter, and I hope you can look at it more in detail before you regard it as plain violent.

last edited at May 1, 2020 3:15AM

This feels like the first proper chapter in a long time.

This feels like the first proper chapter in a long time.

that's what i'm feeling too.

Kinda want to pretend that that previous chapter never happened. This one does act as a neat prequel, at least.

Oof, 32 really isn't working for me. Like, there are three main ways I can see this is going:
1. it's the start of an actual serious exploration of Iori's physical abuse of Minami which is unfortunate because the dramatic writing in this series is lacklustre at best and it would probably be better if she just stopped doing it and the author played to their strengths
2. the author's comedic sense is even more off-kilter regarding domestic violence than I previously thought and this was supposed to actually be funny
3. it's a weird tone shift that the author has no actual plans for and didn't think through that's never going to be brought up in any real capacity and Iori's going to keep beating a domestic abuse survivor and that's going to keep being portrayed as funny
Maybe there's another option where this doesn't suck but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Feels like this chapter is starting to explain how their fight got this much out of hand, but it remains to be seen whether it will be enough...

Oof, 32 really isn't working for me. Like, there are three main ways I can see this is going:
...

Similar assumptions to mine.

I'd love it if Mikanuji actually committed this arc to Minami genuinely questioning her relationship with Iori and whether she should continue it. There's a lot of potential in things like Iori facing her own faults and trying to reform herself into a better partner for Minami, and Iori grappling with the idea that she gravitates towards unhealthy relationships. By itself, the opening of this arc is very strong.

But yeah, my confidence in Mikanuji's dramatic writing is kind of shot. It seems like this will just be a wistful "walk down memory lane to remind Minami of why she loves Iori" bit, without giving Minami's interpersonal relationship issues the gravity it deserves. I'd love to be wrong, of course.

last edited at May 2, 2020 7:41AM

I like this ~ seeing it from her point og vieww(^_^)

Feels like this chapter is starting to explain how their fight got this much out of hand, but it remains to be seen whether it will be enough...

I believe this fight will never be mention again so don't expect anything.

Oof, 32 really isn't working for me. Like, there are three main ways I can see this is going:
1. it's the start of an actual serious exploration of Iori's physical abuse of Minami which is unfortunate because the dramatic writing in this series is lacklustre at best and it would probably be better if she just stopped doing it and the author played to their strengths
2. the author's comedic sense is even more off-kilter regarding domestic violence than I previously thought and this was supposed to actually be funny
3. it's a weird tone shift that the author has no actual plans for and didn't think through that's never going to be brought up in any real capacity and Iori's going to keep beating a domestic abuse survivor and that's going to keep being portrayed as funny
Maybe there's another option where this doesn't suck but I'm not getting my hopes up.

I’m on board with all this. For me, the best part of this series has always been the ad-hoc (no story arc) SOL fluff—domestic banter between a couple of rather mismatched goofballs who are into each other.

You’re dead-on that the dramatic writing has been “lacklustre at best.” Figuring out whether it’s just weak in itself or mostly hurt by the tonal clash with the comedy would require me to re-read it, which I’m not willing to do, at least not now.

And (also for me) the basic premise of the story was “Minami, who is cool but is surprisingly vulnerable because of an extremely traumatic backstory, is safe with Iori.” Adding in “who only beats her a little bit in a funny way for voicing her insecurity” is just a total WTFF.

Tbh, if the author wants to test ideas out and shift away his or her comfortable zone, let him/her do so. It is a good thing actually. It is a hit or miss as the author is not doing what he or she does best previously, but this allows the author to discover new things.

One of the best examples is Araki Hirohiko who always tries new stuffs and moves away from his comfortable zone, and improves as he draws more manga.

Tbh, if the author wants to test ideas out and shift away his or her comfortable zone, let him/her do so. It is a good thing actually. It is a hit or miss as the author is not doing what he or she does best previously, but this allows the author to discover new things.

Well sure, but doing it within a series is a recipe for disjointed narrative and thematic mood whiplashes as should be quite evident here.

Dang, remember when I groused about hating the domestic violence and even went back and linked/cited every instance when questioned and people still jumped on my case because it was all fun and games and haha slapstick and not actually screwed up domestic violence? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Tbh, if the author wants to test ideas out and shift away his or her comfortable zone, let him/her do so. It is a good thing actually. It is a hit or miss as the author is not doing what he or she does best previously, but this allows the author to discover new things.

Well sure, but doing it within a series is a recipe for disjointed narrative and thematic mood whiplashes as should be quite evident here.

Agreed. One of the things I’ve always respected about an author like Morinaga Milk, who sometimes gets hit for “doing the same thing over and over,” is that while her best-received stuff certainly does have very obvious patterns and favorite tropes, she also sometimes does totally weird and off-the-wall things, like supernatural horror and, um, sentient penises. (I don’t actually enjoy reading much of that stuff, but I acknowledge that she does—or maybe did—it.)

By all means, this author should expand their skill set as they see fit—incoherent treatment of domestic violence seems like a pretty lousy way to go about it, though.

Good thing we will probably never come back on it Can we quit already We all know that domestic violence is bad and not a good thing to joke on but isn't the subject have been drag for enough pages already ? We can all agree tha Mikanuji had made a big mistake on this one and move on Just believe it's one of a kind and that kind of chapter will probably never pop up again.

last edited at May 2, 2020 11:50AM

Good thing we will probably never come back on it Can we quit already We all know that domestic violence is bad and not a good thing to joke on but isn't the subject have been drag for enough pages already ? We can all agree tha Mikanuji had made a big mistake on this one and move on Just believe it's one of a kind and that kind of chapter will probably never pop up again.

How about you not tell us when we should stop talking about something?

We may all agree that it’s a mistake, but it’s an interesting mistake—where exactly does it come from? How does it reflect back on what the author has already done? Are all depictions of “violence” taboo? (For instance, actual slapstick bops on the head or whatever in the right genre context are unobjectionable to me).

At least as interesting as the perennial “will character X and character Y ever kiss?” predict-a-thons in these forums are, anyway.

where exactly does it come from?

bad writing

Feels like this chapter is starting to explain how their fight got this much out of hand, but it remains to be seen whether it will be enough...

I believe this fight will never be mention again so don't expect anything.

We'll see. I just don't see why else we had to get a flashback like this right at this time. 32 already made it clear that Minami's attitude towards their relationship, still expecting it to be a temporary thing, was what started the fight. But I'm wondering whether there was anything more to it that made it escalate, this alone really doesn't seem enough to warrant that kind of a result after Iori's initial words in response.

Just believe it's one of a kind and that kind of chapter will probably never pop up again.

Oh I don't expect Iori's abuse of Minami to ever be treated seriously again it's just going to go back to being a punchline which is actually the least appealing outcome here for me.

Weird flashback chapter, but glad to see more of these two. I hope the younger pair shows up again soon.

I think I'm coming from a POV that's different from most of you, but I'm absolutely not the type who thinks any creator has any responsibility to be "conscious" or "aware" of what they make - that there are any moral or ethical considerations that have to be taken when creating. A creator only has to create.

And so with that said, I don't really get the response to the last chapter. As someone else mentioned a few pages back, the series has a kind of telenovela feel with its sense of drama, and has since the beginning. The violence has often been treated with a kind of simultaneous over-the-top drama and shoulder-shrugging indifference. Shizuku's introduction is almost played for a laugh the way it catches you off guard and is so over the top, and Iori's sister's intro absolutely is. The series hasn't ever been consistent with the violence - be it the little smacks and boops between Iori and Minami, or the way Iori's sister and Shizuku throw each other around. Minami frequently showed up with bandages in the beginning - and no, this isn't justification for "oh, it's okay that she's beaten", but it's also not something that the series has played for drama outside of Minami's backstory and her time with Shizuku (and even then, their frequent fights in the past are played for laughs). I think it's obvious that readers are not supposed to take the event in ch. 22 as some sort of horrific point of no return for Iori - she wasn't malicious or sadistic about it, and it was obviously, I think, an emotional reaction in that previously mentioned telenovela way. Making so mich of it, with this humanities-department (and I say this as an English major) deep-reading cultural critique of domestic abuse is misguided and foolhardy when it's clear that this series uses violence as a means to an end or to set the stage for plot points rather than being "about" the violence as a critique or conversation instead.

Which isn't to say that I'm trying to invalidate anyone's feelings - react to the manga as you will, it's your right - but I don't believe that "calling the creator out" or judging the series based on your personal standards of right and wrong and responsible is worth it or defensible on a wider scale.

I think I'm coming from a POV that's different from most of you, but I'm absolutely not the type who thinks any creator has any responsibility to be "conscious" or "aware" of what they make - that there are any moral or ethical considerations that have to be taken when creating. A creator only has to create.

Making so mich of it, with this humanities-department (and I say this as an English major) deep-reading cultural critique of domestic abuse is misguided and foolhardy when it's clear that this series uses violence as a means to an end or to set the stage for plot points rather than being "about" the violence as a critique or conversation instead.

Creators don't have any innate responsibility to an audience via their work, you're right, but likewise an audience has every right to dissemble, analyze, and (yes) condemn a work on the basis of its messaging. No one here is obligated to take Fusoroi no Renri at face-value, or to pretend that Mikanuji's intention is the only thing coloring the manga that we end up reading.

react to the manga as you will, it's your right - but I don't believe that "calling the creator out" or judging the series based on your personal standards of right and wrong and responsible is worth it or defensible on a wider scale.

What do you suppose is the role of critique, which is an entirely subjective pursuit? I agree that there are many types of nonconstructive and/or haranguing criticism, but tbh if we allow that authors should fuck up routinely so too should the people consuming their work.

To be very clear, I only mean with regard to the piece itself. If people were to go harass Mikanuji because of this bad plotting and tone, that'd definitively be over the line.

last edited at May 2, 2020 10:37PM