I‘m also on the very verge of dropping this manga. I know, yuri wasn‘t promised to begin with, but their relationship is beyond just friendship level and it‘s getting even more frustrating the more I see this manga progress. If the author doesn‘t want it to be yuri, they should just stop implying all sorts of things.

i don't know, seeing the author's livestreams seems like there will be much more drama to yet be seen

Oh wow, she's drawing the next chapter right now. It's really interesting to see how it's done.

Exactly. It really does sicken me when I see the sort of hateful, narrow minded bigotry towards "het" on here that I would expect from a 19th century white plantation owner seeing a black man kissing his daughter.

I had my loudest "Bruh" after reading your comment...

last edited at Dec 30, 2019 9:17AM

Although Koyuki's dad confiscating her phone after she apparently checked it once in her entire school career seems a little too strict, [...]

Rules are rules. And seeing his reaction to the other teacher bringing it up with him first, his main reason for doing this seems to be less just the rules and more to help Koyuki out of the lonely spot of the unapproachable exemplar student both the teachers and students keep pushing her into.

Yup, her streams are so cool.

I was going to write a big comment but I think I don't have much else to say, I probably one of the few people that is not frustrated with this manga lol

I just complimented her on her work and she read the comment and replied, it's nice that she tries to engage her English-speaking followers too.

tififs posted:

i don't know, seeing the author's livestreams seems like there will be much more drama to yet be seen

I never expected them to sit down and talk things out next chapter just like that, but unless one has an accident o decides to take the first train back to tokyo just to avoid the confrontation we should be good.

Where does she stream???
Can someone link it pls

Where does she stream???
Can someone link it pls

https://www.twitch.tv/makotohagino

There were no promises that this will be a story in yuri genre and how is this s-class when they are not even dating each other nor having feeling of a romantic love. Friendship can be intimate too and stories about it do exist. Friendship is a relationship with another person and it has similar conflicts like other relationships. It a shame to see this conversation over and over and this extent of labeling things right and left are oversaturates and erases real queerbait. I can understand bitterness over lack of good yuri-stories, but why do this.

This. Very much this. I think that a lot of vitriol towards this series comes from people not bothering to read labels and just projecting their expectations onto the work in question. This has been something that plagued this title (at least on Dynasty) since the very beginning, when the staff had to fight off a deluge of Yuri tag requests. This, despite the fact the scanlator clearly stated on their site (and this was linked in this thread numerous times) that this will not go for the yuri route. The author also confirmed this will be more of a deep friendship thing rather than romance (while also stating she does not mind if someone interprets it as romance), and people viewed this as a betrayal.

All of which is rather unfortunate, because if you stopped projecting such expectations onto it and just read it for what it is, you would get a thoroughly enjoyable experience, in my opinion.

tififs posted:

i don't know, seeing the author's livestreams seems like there will be much more drama to yet be seen

I never expected them to sit down and talk things out next chapter just like that, but unless one has an accident o decides to take the first train back to tokyo just to avoid the confrontation we should be good.

Yeah, sometimes I think I'm the only one who likes what frustrates everybody else about this one. Sure, my yuri-lizard-brain wants handholding and sex, ASAP, but the thing this one does that most others of its ilk do not is to show that real emotional growth isn't just a matter of having an epiphany followed by smooth sailing forever. Koyuki (and to a lesser extent Konatsu) opening up emotionally just leads to more complicated, unfamiliar emotions and social situations--simplifying things for safety is why people get closed off in the first place.

I've always thought of this as "serious fluff," and while the fluff has been less in evidence recently, I've always valued its seriousness in taking matters at its own pace.

last edited at Dec 30, 2019 1:26PM

A summary please?
I don't think we can expect too much about a possible romantic relationship in the next chapter... already they have to reconcile and say what they think and then maybe with time it will evolve into a more loving relationship or … not !
But today no possibility is ruled out one way or the other!

Where does she stream???
Can someone link it pls

https://www.twitch.tv/makotohagino

Thanks

Friendship can be intimate too and stories about it do exist.

I think that some peoples are frustrated about the whole Friendship meme when it come to a 2 girls relationships, whether it be real friendship or love.The problem with an intimate friendship is the thin frontier between Friendship and love it made.In the end, i think one reason lie in the fact we're all yuri readers and have more or less expectations when it come to a relation between two girls, especially like here where it flirt (pun intented) with romance but not quite. One way to describe the manga is More than friends but less than lovers.

last edited at Dec 30, 2019 12:00PM

The author also confirmed this will be more of a deep friendship thing rather than romance

Except that's not what she said, but go off. All she said was that she didn't want to put a label on what Konatsu and Koyuki have because she thought it would be confining. The same idea comes up almost verbatim near the end of Bloom Into You, and I don't think anyone could seriously argue that that those characters' feelings aren't romantic.

last edited at Dec 30, 2019 12:28PM

At the moment the one that shows the most signs of romantic feelings such as jealousy, envy, guilt, their first special encounter, anxiety, their special bonds with them, depression, egoism, is konatsu.
For koyuki she simply ignored her own feelings, too busy opening up to others, but seems to want to fix everything and really care about konatsu other than thinking. Because at first in the history ,koyuki seemed to be the one who was more attracted to her.

At the moment the one that shows the most signs of romantic feelings such as jealousy, envy, guilt, their first special encounter, anxiety, their special bonds with them, depression, egoism, is konatsu.
For koyuki she simply ignored her own feelings, too busy opening up to others, but seems to want to fix everything and really care about konatsu other than thinking. Because at first in the history ,koyuki seemed to be the one who was more attracted to her.

Then again, what's happening right now is consistent to what happened very early on with Konatsu hoping Koyuki also thought of their first meeting as special and being disappointed that Koyuki didn't have a deep reason for coming to talk to her in the first chapter. Back then Koyuki already had no clue that Konatsu wanted to hear a different answer because she wasn't concerned with her feelings, and it's telling that in this chapter she thinks back to their first meeting as well when realizing how much their time together means to her. I wouldn't be surprised if the matter came up during their upcoming talk.

The author also confirmed this will be more of a deep friendship thing rather than romance

Except that's not what she said, but go off. All she said was that she didn't want to put a label on what Konatsu and Koyuki have because she thought it would be confining. The same idea comes up almost verbatim near the end of Bloom Into You, and I don't think anyone could seriously argue that that those characters' feelings aren't romantic.

Where did she say this? I was going from what was posted on the scanlator's site, and they stated that this was labelled by the author as "girl friendship", if memory serves. The post by the author herself was in moonletters, so I am banking on what other people said was written there.

Also, I fail to see the point of bringing up "Bloom Into You", that was explicitly a series about romance, it called it such since the beginning, and the whole point was that the main couple went beyond mere friends. Show me one single scene from this series that tells that, in actual words. I agree that the subtext is so thick here it barely needs yuri goggles (or rather, it does not need them), but there is not a single scene where they actually say anything openly, and the whole thing can technically be called an extremely close friendship. I just do not see any similarity between the two works that would merit this comparison.

In addition, I went and skimmed the last chapter of "Bloom", because the scene you are talking about sounded completely unfamiliar to me. I failed to find it, so feel free to link that as well.

last edited at Dec 30, 2019 2:17PM

Also, I fail to see the point of bringing up "Bloom Into You"

Near the end, Yuu is pointing out to Touko that Touko doesn't really use the words "Girlfriend" or "lover" when Yuu use it often. Touko answer she doesn't because she think it's not enough to describe their relation and what they consider special now will be just normal after some years together.

Links to the pages in questions :
->https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch44#14
->https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch44#15
->https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch44#16

Ah, so it was the chapter before the last one. Thanks, Lilli. But on reading it, it undermines what the person I was responding to claimed even more. "You're definitely right when you say that we're lovers, and that we're dating. I just feel that those words aren't enough to describe us." Which is why I did not remember this scene in the context that person was bringing it up in, because this is nothing like the situation here, making the comparison rather disingenuous.

Also, I fail to see the point of bringing up "Bloom Into You", that was explicitly a series about romance, it called it such since the beginning, and the whole point was that the main couple went beyond mere friends

Have you ever considered judging a work by what actually happens within the text of the work rather than whether or not a scanlator places an explicit label on it to tell you how you're supposed to feel about it

Hagino calls the story "girlship" and prefers not to label it a yuri work because, to her, the story is about the feelings that exist between our two lead girls, and she doesn't want to confine those feelings by putting specific labels or expectations on them. That's all she's said on the matter as far as I'm aware. Maybe that means they won't ever come out and kiss, maybe it means that they will but that they don't want to be simplified to just that, maybe it means any number of things. Mostly it means we should judge the text by what the text itself does rather than obsessively parsing the occasional author's tweet or bookstore genre label to tell us what we're supposed to think about the story.

It's gotten really tedious to see every thread on this story go back and forth in a frenzy of "BUT SHE SAID ITS NOT" instead of ever actually discussing the actual manga IMO

last edited at Dec 30, 2019 3:07PM

Also, I fail to see the point of bringing up "Bloom Into You", that was explicitly a series about romance, it called it such since the beginning, and the whole point was that the main couple went beyond mere friends

Have you ever considered judging a work by what actually happens within the text of the work rather than whether or not a scanlator places an explicit label on it to tell you how you're supposed to feel about it

Hagino calls the story "girlship" and prefers not to label it a yuri work because, to her, the story is about the feelings that exist between our two lead girls, and she doesn't want to confine those feelings by putting specific labels or expectations on them. That's all she's said on the matter as far as I'm aware. Maybe that means they won't ever come out and kiss, maybe it means that they will but that they don't want to be simplified to just that, maybe it means any number of things. Mostly it means we should judge the text by what the text itself does rather than obsessively parsing the occasional author's tweet or bookstore genre label to tell us what we're supposed to think about the story.

It's gotten really tedious to see every thread on this story go back and forth in a frenzy of "BUT SHE SAID ITS NOT" instead of ever actually discussing the actual manga IMO

What's there to discuss about the manga itself? Wow, another chapter of angsty drivel where the two girls wallow around in sadness and fail to communicate. Truly, the peak of drama writing.

Also, I fail to see the point of bringing up "Bloom Into You", that was explicitly a series about romance, it called it such since the beginning, and the whole point was that the main couple went beyond mere friends

Have you ever considered judging a work by what actually happens within the text of the work rather than whether or not a scanlator places an explicit label on it to tell you how you're supposed to feel about it

Hagino calls the story "girlship" and prefers not to label it a yuri work because, to her, the story is about the feelings that exist between our two lead girls, and she doesn't want to confine those feelings by putting specific labels or expectations on them. That's all she's said on the matter as far as I'm aware. Maybe that means they won't ever come out and kiss, maybe it means that they will but that they don't want to be simplified to just that, maybe it means any number of things. Mostly it means we should judge the text by what the text itself does rather than obsessively parsing the occasional author's tweet or bookstore genre label to tell us what we're supposed to think about the story.

It's gotten really tedious to see every thread on this story go back and forth in a frenzy of "BUT SHE SAID ITS NOT" instead of ever actually discussing the actual manga IMO

There's an interesting thing about labels like that. I'm sure we all here would agree that Ikenai Hito is unquestionably a yuri work - and yet its own afterword has the author wondering whether it really fits that label. So when the author here too refuses to define it as yuri, yet doesn't mind if people do so, they may similarly see the yuri label as something more restrictive than what she wants to cover in her manga.

At the moment the one that shows the most signs of romantic feelings such as jealousy, envy, guilt, their first special encounter, anxiety, their special bonds with them, depression, egoism, is konatsu.
For koyuki she simply ignored her own feelings, too busy opening up to others, but seems to want to fix everything and really care about konatsu other than thinking. Because at first in the history ,koyuki seemed to be the one who was more attracted to her.

Then again, what's happening right now is consistent to what happened very early on with Konatsu hoping Koyuki also thought of their first meeting as special and being disappointed that Koyuki didn't have a deep reason for coming to talk to her in the first chapter. Back then Koyuki already had no clue that Konatsu wanted to hear a different answer because she wasn't concerned with her feelings, and it's telling that in this chapter she thinks back to their first meeting as well when realizing how much their time together means to her. I wouldn't be surprised if the matter came up during their upcoming talk.

Of course it's coherent, that's why I like this series, a lot of details, a lot of harmless actions that today are not. Details like on the sms that koyuki sends to apologize where we see the salamander that was the last message she sent to konatsu when they return by train. So koyuki didn't even communicate since then, as if konatsu wasn't a concern anymore.
The author is picky and precise like the manga shingeki no kyojin (attack on titan).
As you say, by remembering the memories she'd be willing to go back totally to their relationship from the beginning.
Koyuki seems to finally want to hear how konatsu is feeling and I hope konatsu will empty her bag completely because on the one hand it will do her a lot of good and on the other hand koyuki will really understand that she's so special to her.
Now what makes the charm of this story is that the author leaves all the necessary time for the evolution of the characters' relationships.
So even if it doesn't end in yuri I'll still appreciate it, but if the author decides to go towards a love relationship and still take as much care to tell it would be the best of the best!
In any case I often go back to appreciate all the little scenes or mistakes that seem trivial but that led to the current situation.

First time posting here just to say that this is the second "yuri" manga I read I'm loving it.
The first one was Citrus and I beginning to think that I'm cursed with all the angst and the main character being "useless lesbians" xD

Anyway the last chapter was really promising and I hope that they finally confess their feelings.

Btw I'm not a native speaker so forgive me if what I wrote seems weird xd

last edited at Dec 30, 2019 9:26PM

YuriNep posted:

First time posting here just to say that this is the second "yuri" manga I read I'm loving it.
The first one was Citrus and I beginning to think that I'm cursed with all the angst and the main character being "useless lesbians" xD

Anyway the last chapter was really promising and I hope that they finally confess their feelings.

Btw I'm not a native speaker so forgive me if what I wrote seems weird xd

Hello fellow Nepper, this one is good to start... You should also read Yagate No Kimi ni Naru and Notes From The Garden Of Lilies!

What I love about Nettaigyo is that I love the 2 main characters to the point that I don't know which one I love more.