At the moment the one that shows the most signs of romantic feelings such as jealousy, envy, guilt, their first special encounter, anxiety, their special bonds with them, depression, egoism, is konatsu.
For koyuki she simply ignored her own feelings, too busy opening up to others, but seems to want to fix everything and really care about konatsu other than thinking. Because at first in the history ,koyuki seemed to be the one who was more attracted to her.

Then again, what's happening right now is consistent to what happened very early on with Konatsu hoping Koyuki also thought of their first meeting as special and being disappointed that Koyuki didn't have a deep reason for coming to talk to her in the first chapter. Back then Koyuki already had no clue that Konatsu wanted to hear a different answer because she wasn't concerned with her feelings, and it's telling that in this chapter she thinks back to their first meeting as well when realizing how much their time together means to her. I wouldn't be surprised if the matter came up during their upcoming talk.

The author also confirmed this will be more of a deep friendship thing rather than romance

Except that's not what she said, but go off. All she said was that she didn't want to put a label on what Konatsu and Koyuki have because she thought it would be confining. The same idea comes up almost verbatim near the end of Bloom Into You, and I don't think anyone could seriously argue that that those characters' feelings aren't romantic.

Where did she say this? I was going from what was posted on the scanlator's site, and they stated that this was labelled by the author as "girl friendship", if memory serves. The post by the author herself was in moonletters, so I am banking on what other people said was written there.

Also, I fail to see the point of bringing up "Bloom Into You", that was explicitly a series about romance, it called it such since the beginning, and the whole point was that the main couple went beyond mere friends. Show me one single scene from this series that tells that, in actual words. I agree that the subtext is so thick here it barely needs yuri goggles (or rather, it does not need them), but there is not a single scene where they actually say anything openly, and the whole thing can technically be called an extremely close friendship. I just do not see any similarity between the two works that would merit this comparison.

In addition, I went and skimmed the last chapter of "Bloom", because the scene you are talking about sounded completely unfamiliar to me. I failed to find it, so feel free to link that as well.

last edited at Dec 30, 2019 2:17PM

Also, I fail to see the point of bringing up "Bloom Into You"

Near the end, Yuu is pointing out to Touko that Touko doesn't really use the words "Girlfriend" or "lover" when Yuu use it often. Touko answer she doesn't because she think it's not enough to describe their relation and what they consider special now will be just normal after some years together.

Links to the pages in questions :
->https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch44#14
->https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch44#15
->https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch44#16

Ah, so it was the chapter before the last one. Thanks, Lilli. But on reading it, it undermines what the person I was responding to claimed even more. "You're definitely right when you say that we're lovers, and that we're dating. I just feel that those words aren't enough to describe us." Which is why I did not remember this scene in the context that person was bringing it up in, because this is nothing like the situation here, making the comparison rather disingenuous.

Also, I fail to see the point of bringing up "Bloom Into You", that was explicitly a series about romance, it called it such since the beginning, and the whole point was that the main couple went beyond mere friends

Have you ever considered judging a work by what actually happens within the text of the work rather than whether or not a scanlator places an explicit label on it to tell you how you're supposed to feel about it

Hagino calls the story "girlship" and prefers not to label it a yuri work because, to her, the story is about the feelings that exist between our two lead girls, and she doesn't want to confine those feelings by putting specific labels or expectations on them. That's all she's said on the matter as far as I'm aware. Maybe that means they won't ever come out and kiss, maybe it means that they will but that they don't want to be simplified to just that, maybe it means any number of things. Mostly it means we should judge the text by what the text itself does rather than obsessively parsing the occasional author's tweet or bookstore genre label to tell us what we're supposed to think about the story.

It's gotten really tedious to see every thread on this story go back and forth in a frenzy of "BUT SHE SAID ITS NOT" instead of ever actually discussing the actual manga IMO

last edited at Dec 30, 2019 3:07PM

Also, I fail to see the point of bringing up "Bloom Into You", that was explicitly a series about romance, it called it such since the beginning, and the whole point was that the main couple went beyond mere friends

Have you ever considered judging a work by what actually happens within the text of the work rather than whether or not a scanlator places an explicit label on it to tell you how you're supposed to feel about it

Hagino calls the story "girlship" and prefers not to label it a yuri work because, to her, the story is about the feelings that exist between our two lead girls, and she doesn't want to confine those feelings by putting specific labels or expectations on them. That's all she's said on the matter as far as I'm aware. Maybe that means they won't ever come out and kiss, maybe it means that they will but that they don't want to be simplified to just that, maybe it means any number of things. Mostly it means we should judge the text by what the text itself does rather than obsessively parsing the occasional author's tweet or bookstore genre label to tell us what we're supposed to think about the story.

It's gotten really tedious to see every thread on this story go back and forth in a frenzy of "BUT SHE SAID ITS NOT" instead of ever actually discussing the actual manga IMO

What's there to discuss about the manga itself? Wow, another chapter of angsty drivel where the two girls wallow around in sadness and fail to communicate. Truly, the peak of drama writing.

Also, I fail to see the point of bringing up "Bloom Into You", that was explicitly a series about romance, it called it such since the beginning, and the whole point was that the main couple went beyond mere friends

Have you ever considered judging a work by what actually happens within the text of the work rather than whether or not a scanlator places an explicit label on it to tell you how you're supposed to feel about it

Hagino calls the story "girlship" and prefers not to label it a yuri work because, to her, the story is about the feelings that exist between our two lead girls, and she doesn't want to confine those feelings by putting specific labels or expectations on them. That's all she's said on the matter as far as I'm aware. Maybe that means they won't ever come out and kiss, maybe it means that they will but that they don't want to be simplified to just that, maybe it means any number of things. Mostly it means we should judge the text by what the text itself does rather than obsessively parsing the occasional author's tweet or bookstore genre label to tell us what we're supposed to think about the story.

It's gotten really tedious to see every thread on this story go back and forth in a frenzy of "BUT SHE SAID ITS NOT" instead of ever actually discussing the actual manga IMO

There's an interesting thing about labels like that. I'm sure we all here would agree that Ikenai Hito is unquestionably a yuri work - and yet its own afterword has the author wondering whether it really fits that label. So when the author here too refuses to define it as yuri, yet doesn't mind if people do so, they may similarly see the yuri label as something more restrictive than what she wants to cover in her manga.

At the moment the one that shows the most signs of romantic feelings such as jealousy, envy, guilt, their first special encounter, anxiety, their special bonds with them, depression, egoism, is konatsu.
For koyuki she simply ignored her own feelings, too busy opening up to others, but seems to want to fix everything and really care about konatsu other than thinking. Because at first in the history ,koyuki seemed to be the one who was more attracted to her.

Then again, what's happening right now is consistent to what happened very early on with Konatsu hoping Koyuki also thought of their first meeting as special and being disappointed that Koyuki didn't have a deep reason for coming to talk to her in the first chapter. Back then Koyuki already had no clue that Konatsu wanted to hear a different answer because she wasn't concerned with her feelings, and it's telling that in this chapter she thinks back to their first meeting as well when realizing how much their time together means to her. I wouldn't be surprised if the matter came up during their upcoming talk.

Of course it's coherent, that's why I like this series, a lot of details, a lot of harmless actions that today are not. Details like on the sms that koyuki sends to apologize where we see the salamander that was the last message she sent to konatsu when they return by train. So koyuki didn't even communicate since then, as if konatsu wasn't a concern anymore.
The author is picky and precise like the manga shingeki no kyojin (attack on titan).
As you say, by remembering the memories she'd be willing to go back totally to their relationship from the beginning.
Koyuki seems to finally want to hear how konatsu is feeling and I hope konatsu will empty her bag completely because on the one hand it will do her a lot of good and on the other hand koyuki will really understand that she's so special to her.
Now what makes the charm of this story is that the author leaves all the necessary time for the evolution of the characters' relationships.
So even if it doesn't end in yuri I'll still appreciate it, but if the author decides to go towards a love relationship and still take as much care to tell it would be the best of the best!
In any case I often go back to appreciate all the little scenes or mistakes that seem trivial but that led to the current situation.

First time posting here just to say that this is the second "yuri" manga I read I'm loving it.
The first one was Citrus and I beginning to think that I'm cursed with all the angst and the main character being "useless lesbians" xD

Anyway the last chapter was really promising and I hope that they finally confess their feelings.

Btw I'm not a native speaker so forgive me if what I wrote seems weird xd

last edited at Dec 30, 2019 9:26PM

YuriNep posted:

First time posting here just to say that this is the second "yuri" manga I read I'm loving it.
The first one was Citrus and I beginning to think that I'm cursed with all the angst and the main character being "useless lesbians" xD

Anyway the last chapter was really promising and I hope that they finally confess their feelings.

Btw I'm not a native speaker so forgive me if what I wrote seems weird xd

Hello fellow Nepper, this one is good to start... You should also read Yagate No Kimi ni Naru and Notes From The Garden Of Lilies!

What I love about Nettaigyo is that I love the 2 main characters to the point that I don't know which one I love more.

Also, I fail to see the point of bringing up "Bloom Into You", that was explicitly a series about romance, it called it such since the beginning, and the whole point was that the main couple went beyond mere friends

Have you ever considered judging a work by what actually happens within the text of the work rather than whether or not a scanlator places an explicit label on it to tell you how you're supposed to feel about it

Hagino calls the story "girlship" and prefers not to label it a yuri work because, to her, the story is about the feelings that exist between our two lead girls, and she doesn't want to confine those feelings by putting specific labels or expectations on them. That's all she's said on the matter as far as I'm aware. Maybe that means they won't ever come out and kiss, maybe it means that they will but that they don't want to be simplified to just that, maybe it means any number of things. Mostly it means we should judge the text by what the text itself does rather than obsessively parsing the occasional author's tweet or bookstore genre label to tell us what we're supposed to think about the story.

It's gotten really tedious to see every thread on this story go back and forth in a frenzy of "BUT SHE SAID ITS NOT" instead of ever actually discussing the actual manga IMO

There's an interesting thing about labels like that. I'm sure we all here would agree that Ikenai Hito is unquestionably a yuri work - and yet its own afterword has the author wondering whether it really fits that label. So when the author here too refuses to define it as yuri, yet doesn't mind if people do so, they may similarly see the yuri label as something more restrictive than what she wants to cover in her manga.

I mean, there Tamamusi is wondering if it counts as yuri because it feels more mature in audience and story, which is not the same distinction here at all, since this is like, prime standard yuri territory, as a relatively low-stakes schoolgirl story about bonds between girls. That one was somewhat outside of standard genre conventions, hence the author's note.

First time posting here just to say that this is the second "yuri" manga I read I'm loving it.
The first one was Citrus and I beginning to think that I'm cursed with all the angst and the main character being "useless lesbians" xD

Anyway the last chapter was really promising and I hope that they finally confess their feelings.

Btw I'm not a native speaker so forgive me if what I wrote seems weird xd

Hi! Go read Kase-san if you want something free of angst.

Also, I fail to see the point of bringing up "Bloom Into You", that was explicitly a series about romance, it called it such since the beginning, and the whole point was that the main couple went beyond mere friends

Have you ever considered judging a work by what actually happens within the text of the work rather than whether or not a scanlator places an explicit label on it to tell you how you're supposed to feel about it

Hagino calls the story "girlship" and prefers not to label it a yuri work because, to her, the story is about the feelings that exist between our two lead girls, and she doesn't want to confine those feelings by putting specific labels or expectations on them. That's all she's said on the matter as far as I'm aware. Maybe that means they won't ever come out and kiss, maybe it means that they will but that they don't want to be simplified to just that, maybe it means any number of things. Mostly it means we should judge the text by what the text itself does rather than obsessively parsing the occasional author's tweet or bookstore genre label to tell us what we're supposed to think about the story.

It's gotten really tedious to see every thread on this story go back and forth in a frenzy of "BUT SHE SAID ITS NOT" instead of ever actually discussing the actual manga IMO

What's there to discuss about the manga itself? Wow, another chapter of angsty drivel where the two girls wallow around in sadness and fail to communicate. Truly, the peak of drama writing.

Not going to lie, after hearing that the author said something that it wasn't a Yuri then I guess this whole manga would be about Angst and sadness by people who have problems with their issues bla bla,,, DEEP FRIENDSHIP and ANGST!
Well nothing else to expect, I doubt the author will take the Yuri route so I am going to stand in the corner, sipping tea and eating popcorn while watching the ship lost in the middle of ocean.

Still fail to realize how this is subtext anyways I’m so confused omg there’s a lot of feelings involved and I’m slow asf

First time posting here just to say that this is the second "yuri" manga I read I'm loving it.
The first one was Citrus and I beginning to think that I'm cursed with all the angst and the main character being "useless lesbians" xD

Anyway the last chapter was really promising and I hope that they finally confess their feelings.

Btw I'm not a native speaker so forgive me if what I wrote seems weird xd

Heya, if you want some less angsty useless lesbians, you should read the Adachi to Shimamura Novel.

Thanks for all the recommendations, I will read them for sure. Oh and happy new year everyone! (In a few hours xd)

It doesn't really matter what the author says or writes anymore, these two have romantic feelings for each other without knowing it (one does, the other seems to be falling off a cliff). Of course it's Japan, so the depression levels go to epic, but let's just be honest with ourselves, this is and always was a romantic entanglement.

It would be great if they could meet each other in school and get an apartment together because they seem to be meant for each other, but one of them is so stupid they don't realize what the other means to them. It's sad.

We've long crossed the line of romance...what you think two dudes who are really lonely and sigh about each other in whispers don't have a thing for each other? Jesus. We're not just considering lesbian fiction, but ALL romantic fiction here. If you're a boy, and you're cooing and whispering about a girl who is your friend and you feel desperately lonely for her...guess what, you probably want to fuck unless you're asexual and seriously depressed.

I just don't see what the author is seeing anymore. This manga IS toying with same sex romance, it's fucked up when it (ignoring romantic entanglements) happens in het and I find it mind numbingly frustrating when it's done through second-hand in old black and white het movies. (Because the gay was not acknowledged at all back then).

And I'm not blasting the author for mislabeling or turding the gays, what she's doing is severe miscommunication. Every single natural sign of romance is there and the characters don't even CONSIDER IT. IT'S NOT TALKED ABOUT, IT'S THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM AND IT ISN'T EVEN CONSIDERED (like a dumb 90s movie or smthng).

Just sigh.

At least in Citrus they know what it is and what they're doing and its implications. This story is in epic denial that a romantic relationship between these two girls who are desperately lonely for each other is even plausible. This used to be my favorite story until they pulled a Citrus and pulled the two mains away from each other.

Honestly wouldn't be surprised to watch them admit their friendship, smile, and then the story ends. They'll marry men and then meet 10 years later on a park bench once they've had babies...even though they were obsessed with each other and practically lived in the other one's mind and desperate for each other in high school. They'll sip some cocoa in the cold, have a lovely chat, and then say goodbye.

Because normal friendships have fuck-eyes and eye-fucking. You KNOW they've looked at each other that way multiple times, on the island, in the clubroom. Do normal people miss others this much and not at least consider romantic interest (outside of family)? If I was a dude and the other dude treated me like these two I'd say that dude had some hella gay feelings. I mean, these are pretty universal romantic signs going on here, right? Or am I going crazy?

last edited at Jan 1, 2020 12:11AM

Denial can be a powerful thing. Depression can make you unaware of your own emotions or unwilling to acknowledge them, even if you're super-insightful about other peoples'. It took me ages to admit being gay, and more or less had to have my first girlfriend beat it into my head.

You would not believe how many of us do the "just gals bein' pals, nothing lesbian here" thing to ourselves, for reasons ranging from ignorance to disbelief to fear to self-loathing. I sense depression in at least one of these girls, possibly both.

Homo-romantic friendship...? Or it explores the nature of isolation and how attachment to others can intensify the frustration that it looks romantic. Considering the author said herself she never intended Nettaigyo to be Yuri romance, and the angst surrounding this 'frienship'--especially the lizard and frog metaphor or allusion--maybe tackling intense feelings of isolation is the point.

We may wear whatever goggles we like while reading, as long as the author has already said her piece, readers' expectation and interpretation of fictional characters--however it matters still--comes in second place.

Yeahhhh Koyuki! Why not just tell Konatsu about your warm feelings for her? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I love how Koyuki's mum was basically giving Koyuki advice based on her own relationship with her husband (Koyuki's dad). Like just think... if she was giving advice based on that of a married couple, then that's pretty telling to me. As in, 'Koyuki and Konatsu are gay AF' - telling.

Also, you're not going crazy @Gibfady I agree that there's plenty of romantic signs going on there! And yeah it's sad that the 2 MC's aren't even considering that they have hella gay feelings towards each other, whether it's due to obliviousness or denial.

Where I agree is that they are capable of not declaring that they love each other even if they admit it deep down inside.
Now konatsu seems more advanced on her feeling towards koyuki, she just seems to wake up about it, let's see.... what's sure with them is that in any case we'll have a lot of chapters to come to a conclusion!
The next discussion might be tense though because I had a hard time seeing konatsu confess everything she feels to koyuki and I hope koyuki won't swallow it all and dig deeper.
It's when you think you're at the end of the tunnel that it ends with "what" because they are so complex!

especially the lizard and frog metaphor or allusion

Salamander, not lizard

especially the lizard and frog metaphor or allusion

Salamander, not lizard

Woopsie. I stand corrected. My apologies to the Salamander majesties.

especially the lizard and frog metaphor or allusion

Salamander, not lizard

Woopsie. I stand corrected. My apologies to the Salamander majesties.

You just gotta rhyme huh.

Mmmmm this manga has provided much enjoyed somber angst, looks like Honami is ready to nut up and not shut up for once.... Go hold that hand!!!!