Uh, we're talking about a British TV show, remember? Meaning, a show where people speak in English... right?
Why would they need to put English subtitles on that?

Well, I don’t know about FT, but I’m a US native speaker, and I’d often be lost without closed captions whenever there’s a protagonist with a strong north-of-England or other non-Received Pronunciation dialect.

Yes it's exactly that, I was wondering because in French television they sometimes show Canada-Québec sitcoms or tvdramas and they always put closed captions in correct French on the display, because they assume nobody will get a word of the thick Québec dialect if they don't do that.
I was wondering if in Canada they need to put subtitles in "local dialect" so that the people will understand the dialogues that are spoken in normal mainstream English or French.

Anyone who understands the Liverpool dialect (Scouse was it?) has my respect.

I've never listened to a sample of the Liverpool dialect, but I'm just gonna assume that the numerous dialects in Scotland and Ireland are even more difficult.

Anyone who understands the Liverpool dialect (Scouse was it?) has my respect.

I've never listened to a sample of the Liverpool dialect, but I'm just gonna assume that the numerous dialects in Scotland and Ireland are even more difficult.

Not too sure about that. If you ever hear someone from Liverpool with a strong dialect talk you might have serious doubt they are speaking English. Perhaps any language in fact.

Anyway, dialects are kind of irrelevant for our mute heroine.

^ Fun fact. Sign Language isn't 1 universal, but has variations depending on country too.

^ Fun fact. Sign Language isn't 1 universal, but has variations depending on country too.

That reminds me of the old joke "If someone using sign language is missing an arm, is it an accent or a speech impedent?"

Joking aside, that does bring up the question whether mute girl has not learned sign language, because her muteness happened very recently or whether she thinks it is useles as almost nobody knows it anyway and she can still understand everyone?

I wonder, if with today's advances, it would be better to communicate using a phone writing fast and then use some app to voice her messages, there's of course a delay in response but it's faster than writing in a sketchbook ... and If you saw the movie A silent Voice, you might remember trying to teach the whole class (or the whole school) sign language would be.... hmmm. Let's just say it's discouraging in most cases.

last edited at Dec 19, 2019 3:35PM

^ Fun fact. Sign Language isn't 1 universal, but has variations depending on country too.

As I've learned from one of Xidnaf's oldest videos, despite USA, UK and Australia all speaking English, they "speak" different sign languages, those being ASL, BSL and Auslan, respectively, none of which are mutually intelligible. In fact, ASL is much more similar to France's sign language.

I was wondering because in French television they sometimes show Canada-Québec sitcoms or tvdramas and they always put closed captions in correct French on the display, because they assume nobody will get a word of the thick Québec dialect if they don't do that.
I was wondering if in Canada they need to put subtitles in "local dialect" so that the people will understand the dialogues that are spoken in normal mainstream English or French.

Actually, every kid in Canada learns in school how to speak, read and write proper English (Oxford college style) and/or proper French (à la Parisienne). The local dialects, you learn them in your home and in the streets. Daily life teaches you how to speak 'em.

That's why, even tho French people may need closed captions to understand a dialogue in Montréal dialect, Montréal people don't need any such help to understand the dialogues in French movies or shows. In the same way, Canadian anglophones can understand British series like Fawlty Towers without any need for a translation.

Btw, are we really, Jeanne and I, the only ones who have watched Fawlty Towers? What a pity... it's John Cleese's best work, by very far; all the stuff he did with Monty Python doesn't hold a candle to this show.

last edited at Dec 19, 2019 4:13PM

I wonder, if with today's advances, it would be better to communicate using a phone writing fast and then use some app to voice her messages, there's of course a delay in response but it's faster than writing in a sketchbook ... and If you saw the movie A silent Voice, you might remember trying to teach the whole class (or the whole school) sign language would be.... hmmm. Let's just say it's discouraging in most cases.

Actually I think I heard of cases like this before. At least similar in nature, where the deaf/mute person uses a tablet. It's a whole lot faster and more universally applicable than sign language. Typing speed can be astonishing sometimes. That could probably be easily combined with a text-to-speech software, although I find those rarely reliable.

Of course the conversation partner then has to send messages to their phone/tablet as well, but I think people find that far easier than learning an entire language.

last edited at Dec 19, 2019 4:34PM

Joking aside, that does bring up the question whether mute girl has not learned sign language, because her muteness happened very recently or whether she thinks it is useles as almost nobody knows it anyway and she can still understand everyone?

This is Japan, where everyone must conform to the masses. Can’t hear or talk? Doesn’t matter, you must be conform.

The following info is from a documentary on a Japanese school for deaf children that I can’t remember the name of.

In Japan, deaf children are forced to learn lipreading and talking. Yes, even without ever being able to hear a word they need to learn how to talk. That actually works, but it’s generally not a happy process and involves endless drills, well, just like everything in Japanese schools (hint: the Japanese school system is kinda crap). The intention is of course that deaf people must be conform to the hearing word. Aside from that, nobody gives a shit about the needs of deaf people.

Besides showing the things deaf children were forced into in the past, the documentary also showed modern approaches that include teaching sign language and spent most of the time on a specific school for deaf children where everyone, including all the teachers, uses sign language from grade to high school and lipreading and talking-without-hearing aren’t taught. The kids love it and are super happy with their deaf classmates, but once they graduate, the harsh reality is that nobody outside the school can understand them.

Regarding this story, it’s quite possible that Mashiro hasn’t learned sign language, though it’s strange that she hasn’t learned lipreading/talking either. Either it’s indeed a recent thing or the artist is going for the moe appeal or the artist has no clue about what deaf people learn. Maybe future chapters will show.

Edit: Nvm. I must’ve been half asleep when I wrote that because Mashiro isn’t deaf. -_-,

last edited at Dec 20, 2019 7:53AM

My question is did she write on the same sketchbook everytime and erase everytime or did she have a lot of them ?

She probably buys a lot of them... and I'm inclined to think that her problem might be psychological so I would love if her (((((Friend)))))) helps to overcome whatever trauma caused that.

Also, in school there are groups like in whatsapp or Line right? work and study groups... if she were to join one like that she would socialize like most teenagers. Well, I wouldn't be able to do that simply because I don't want everyone to have my number hahahaha but yeah, there are ways around it but you need nice people to help you pull it off with the initiative. Twin-tails chan is not a bad person but she's not the right person to, for example, cheerfully encourage the class to make a group chat.

last edited at Dec 19, 2019 7:52PM

Also, in school there are groups like in whatsapp or Line right? work and study groups... if she were to join one like that she would socialize like most teenagers.

One thing I've wondered myself is why Mute-chan doesn't use her cellphone instead of a sketchbook. Compared to the time it takes to write something with a pen on a paper sheet, it would be much faster to type it on the phone and then show the screen to the people to whom she wants to tell that.

Actually, maybe she doesn't have a phone at all? I can't recall her using one in the chapters so far.

Every kid in Canada learns in school how to speak, read and write proper English (Oxford college style) and/or proper French (à la Parisienne). The local dialects, you learn them in your home and in the streets. Daily life teaches you how to speak 'em.

Lol, haha, yeah, you're right, it stands to reason that wherever English is taught what they teach is the 'pure' form of the language, not some kind of 'argot' variant. I should've guessed.

Btw, are we really, Jeanne and I, the only ones who have watched Fawlty Towers? What a pity... it's John Cleese's best work, by very far; all the stuff he did with Monty Python doesn't hold a candle to this show.

I agree, Cleese is at his best when he's in charge of funny all by himself and surrounded by straightmen/straightwomen...
When there are many funnymen sharing the spotlight with him it's a waste of his talent...

last edited at Dec 20, 2019 9:53AM

I think her not using phone is more because showing writing on sketchbook is more visually interesting? Like it fits more with comedy and type of character. Or simply because that's the cliche way mute characters communicate.

Nevri posted:

I think her not using phone is more because showing writing on sketchbook is more visually interesting? Like it fits more with comedy and type of character. Or simply because that's the cliche way mute characters communicate.

Yeah but works better when the series is super carefree or full comedy ... I think is just to make this story work, like, is not impossible but is not a very smart way to go about it realistically.

Also about actual "language" barrier and trying to communicate with each other without mind reading, I can recommend great story, but it's sadly het.

Nevri posted:

I think her not using phone is more because showing writing on sketchbook is more visually interesting? Like it fits more with comedy and type of character. Or simply because that's the cliche way mute characters communicate.

Yeah but works better when the series is super carefree or full comedy ... I think is just to make this story work, like, is not impossible but is not a very smart way to go about it realistically.

But it's not supposed to be bombproof realistic! Only to be cute. One of them acts like a grade school boy with a crush, the other acts like an adopted puppy, they don't think about using telepathy to get rich, or using cellphones to communicate when you can't speak, or telling the kitchen staff about the mute girl's disability... none of these are especially realistic.

We prolly should just remember Hodgson's Law – "do not worry about details that are irrelevant to the enjoyment of the story" – and relax. :D

"It's just a manga; I should really just relax?"

Good mantra, that. ≧∇≦

Is that cellphone argument even really an argument? Apparently in the West most write about 70 characters per minute per hand. So frankly if you have paper ready the speed difference for such short stuff like what you'd want to order etc. compared to typing in your smartphone is probably negligible; in Japanese that's a few kanji or whatever and you are done. Plus, text size is obviously much larger the way she goes about it ...

School might also have a ban against smartphones (unless they were in a scene somewhere, I didn't check). Either way I wouldn't be surprised if some genuinely preferred this method.

last edited at Dec 20, 2019 5:50PM

^ well it's more about practicality. You can erase and write your stuff on phone and will never run out of pages. Good point about phone ban though, though in her case they might grant her special permission. I agree there's no point overthinking it though.

last edited at Dec 20, 2019 6:25PM

Is that cellphone argument even really an argument? Apparently in the West most write about 70 characters per minute per hand. So frankly if you have paper ready the speed difference for such short stuff like what you'd want to order etc. compared to typing in your smartphone is probably negligible; in Japanese that's a few kanji or whatever and you are done. Plus, text size is obviously much larger the way she goes about it ...

As one who loves paper and paper books (I'm totally like Jun-kun), I wholeheartedly agree with your argument.

Nevri posted:

Also about actual "language" barrier and trying to communicate with each other without mind reading, I can recommend great story, but it's sadly het.

Should recommend it anyways. Not everyone here is totally averse to non-yuri stories.

^ well then here you go.

Is that cellphone argument even really an argument? Apparently in the West most write about 70 characters per minute per hand. So frankly if you have paper ready the speed difference for such short stuff like what you'd want to order etc. compared to typing in your smartphone is probably negligible; in Japanese that's a few kanji or whatever and you are done. Plus, text size is obviously much larger the way she goes about it ...

School might also have a ban against smartphones (unless they were in a scene somewhere, I didn't check). Either way I wouldn't be surprised if some genuinely preferred this method.

I may be just getting old, but phones are primarily associated with calling people for me, so a mute person having one didn't even come to mind as a possibility. Might be the same for her and/or her parents as well, so even if it actually does have useful features, they'd just dismiss it as a silly idea without even realizing there's more to it.

Of course, tablets might still be a similar good idea with a more readable screen for "talking" with people. Pen and paper would still be quite a bit easier to handle, though, and you would not have to worry about charging them.