Scenes like the the second half of ch.56 are what I read yuri for. I have no idea why anyone would prefer a frustratingly ambiguous friendship yuri when they could have sweet cute scenes with two girls in love.

last edited at Dec 2, 2019 2:41AM

What's going to bug me the most about this is Mai taking advantage of (if not predating upon) Nanoha's kindness, and the fact that it's probably going to have a big negative impact on Nanoha when this all blows up.
I realize manipulators are a pretty common trope for a series, but they just always pinch a nerve for me especially.

The thing about Mai's behavior is that, while she certainly is being manipulative, there's no sign that she's being dishonest. Her breakdown in front of Nanoha in chapter 60 wasn't just a performance; she genuinely feels adrift and alone. Also, her manipulation so far has been pretty harmless. She wants to spend more time with Nanoha, so she pulls on Nanoha's emotions in a way that will make her spend more time with her. But if she had just come out and said that she needed her to be there for her, Nanoha would've said yes.

she says very clearly she wants nanoha as her gf, what she is doing is pure manipulation. you see that smirk after nanoha hugs her. i don't think her talking about her not having friends was genuine in the least. not to say her having no friends isn't true, but she was definitely using it to get nanoha. she knows how caring nanoha is and played her like a harpstring. adn it's not harmless, she's actively trying to steal nanoha away. she SAW them kissing, she KNOWS they are obviously together. how is that not harmless?

last edited at Dec 2, 2019 2:57AM

Scenes like the the second half of ch.56 are what I read yuri for. I have no idea why anyone would prefer a frustratingly ambiguous friendship yuri when they could have sweet cute scenes with two girls in love.

Well said! That's how I feel about it too. Chapter 56 is my favourite of the series so far. Absolutely amazingly fluffy and heartwarming. I love the way Nanoha gets all excited and playfully teases Chidori after. The best yuri stories are the ones that don't dance around the fact that the main couple are in love.

Have a chance? Did you forget that she is dating? Omg xD back off from my babies!

she says very clearly she wants nanoha as her gf, what she is doing is pure manipulation. you see that smirk after nanoha hugs her. i don't think her talking about her not having friends was genuine in the least. not to say her having no friends isn't true, but she was definitely using it to get nanoha. she knows how caring nanoha is and played her like a harpstring. adn it's not harmless, she's actively trying to steal nanoha away. she SAW them kissing, she KNOWS they are obviously together. how is that not harmless?

While I'm not entirely sure how much of her behavior is genuine and how much is pure manipulation, I do find the timing of this whole thing quite suspicious. When Nanoha's mother brought up Mai's injury, like Nanoha we expected this to be something new, not have happened a long time ago. It does feel weird that this was suddenly brought up now, right after her seeing Nanoha and Chidori kissing.

Uh.. the Netorare tag I smell here :( (i'm not english and not so good my english so sorry if my sentences are not spelled correctly)

Why are people so upset about some potential drama? You can't always have just fluff.
But anyway, I don't think this will be something major. I feel like Mai will end up being mostly harmless. I don't think she will cause any major drama like blackmailing Nanoha to out them.

What's going to bug me the most about this is Mai taking advantage of (if not predating upon) Nanoha's kindness, and the fact that it's probably going to have a big negative impact on Nanoha when this all blows up.
I realize manipulators are a pretty common trope for a series, but they just always pinch a nerve for me especially.

The thing about Mai's behavior is that, while she certainly is being manipulative, there's no sign that she's being dishonest. Her breakdown in front of Nanoha in chapter 60 wasn't just a performance; she genuinely feels adrift and alone. Also, her manipulation so far has been pretty harmless. She wants to spend more time with Nanoha, so she pulls on Nanoha's emotions in a way that will make her spend more time with her. But if she had just come out and said that she needed her to be there for her, Nanoha would've said yes.

What are you basing your assertion of Mai's sincerity on? We don't really know anything about her, other than she was a close friend of Nanoha in middle school, and that she has declared her intention to steal Nanoha from Chiski. You're right Mai might really feel alone and adrift, but it could an act to get Nanoha to feel sorry for her. At this point we don't know.
My guess would be it is a little from column A and a little from column B. After all it looks like she is going to be the "villain" of the next story arch. However I can't imagine this kind of story having completely unsympathetic character

last edited at Dec 2, 2019 5:05AM

Uh.. the Netorare tag I smell here :( (i'm not english and not so good my english so sorry if my sentences are not spelled correctly)

Cheating is way too dark for this series. I don't think your sense of smell is functioning correctly.

What's going to bug me the most about this is Mai taking advantage of (if not predating upon) Nanoha's kindness, and the fact that it's probably going to have a big negative impact on Nanoha when this all blows up.
I realize manipulators are a pretty common trope for a series, but they just always pinch a nerve for me especially.

The thing about Mai's behavior is that, while she certainly is being manipulative, there's no sign that she's being dishonest. Her breakdown in front of Nanoha in chapter 60 wasn't just a performance; she genuinely feels adrift and alone. Also, her manipulation so far has been pretty harmless. She wants to spend more time with Nanoha, so she pulls on Nanoha's emotions in a way that will make her spend more time with her. But if she had just come out and said that she needed her to be there for her, Nanoha would've said yes.

she says very clearly she wants nanoha as her gf, what she is doing is pure manipulation. you see that smirk after nanoha hugs her. i don't think her talking about her not having friends was genuine in the least. not to say her having no friends isn't true, but she was definitely using it to get nanoha. she knows how caring nanoha is and played her like a harpstring. adn it's not harmless, she's actively trying to steal nanoha away. she SAW them kissing, she KNOWS they are obviously together. how is that not harmless?

That's not a smirk, that's a smile. She's smiling because she's happy that she's being comforted. That is a normal human response. Nothing in the art or dialogue suggests she's being false or deceptive, and the paneling on pages 151-153 in particular suggests genuine emotion. On 152, the author conveys Mai's feeling of emptiness through the art. On page 153, Mai tries to dismiss what she said because she's embarrassed for accidentally sharing too much, and she's surprised to see how strongly Nanoha has reacted. Not exactly the reactions of someone who planned it all out to guilt-trip her. I guess you could read the chapter and interpret things your way, but I believe you're ignoring strong textual and artistic cues in order to project your reading onto the chapter.

I said her manipulation is harmless because she hasn't actually done anything to negatively impact Nanoha's relationship with Chidori. Her motive (steal Nanoha away) might be wicked, but I'd say it's better to judge someone by their actions. Has she tried to turn Nanoha away from Chidori? No. Has she interfered in their relationship in any way? No. All she's done is reestablished ties with an old friend. A result of that is that Nanoha has spent a little less time with Chidori, but that's just how life works. We each have limited time and have to decide how to allocate that.

last edited at Dec 2, 2019 5:07AM

MacySan posted:

Why are people so upset about some potential drama? You can't always have just fluff.

Form me personally it's more that adding sudden love rival/someone messing with established relationship is cliche af and incredibly lazy. I saw it way too many times and it's way overused as if there wasn't possibly be any other issue author could explore instead. There's slim chance it'll be executed well or with a twist, but honestly it's not really worth the pain of reading through it, especially if it takes some time to resolve. If she manages to break them up, well, she just managed to ruin the pair people are rooting for. If she don't, then until this plot thread concludes, that's all I'll be able to focus on, taking away any enjoyment I could have from anything else currently going on, fluff or not. It's simply cheap and forced drama for the sake of drama. There are countless better things to write about. There's so little actual stories focusing on couple life, so why when they are finally a couple, most of drama is usually focused around trying to break them or keeping them apart? Can't we have some drama made around them being a couple?

last edited at Dec 2, 2019 7:28AM

I suppose it's named Hana ni Arashi for a reason...

I guess it's no longer a secret from EVERYONE. Plus, I'm convinced at least one of the friends know.

I guess it's no longer a secret from EVERYONE.

I would like she ask the friends about Nanoha and Chidori.

I guess it's no longer a secret from EVERYONE.

I would like she ask the friends about Nanoha and Chidori.

Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well.

MacySan posted:

Why are people so upset about some potential drama? You can't always have just fluff.

Form me personally it's more that adding sudden love rival/someone messing with established relationship is cliche af and incredibly lazy. I saw it way too many times and it's way overused as if there wasn't possibly be any other issue author could explore instead. There's slim chance it'll be executed well or with a twist, but honestly it's not really worth the pain of reading through it, especially if it takes some time to resolve. If she manages to break them up, well, she just managed to ruin the pair people are rooting for. If she don't, then until this plot thread concludes, that's all I'll be able to focus on, taking away any enjoyment I could have from anything else currently going on, fluff or not. It's simply cheap and forced drama for the sake of drama. There are countless better things to write about. There's so little actual stories focusing on couple life, so why when they are finally a couple, most of drama is usually focused around trying to break them or keeping them apart? Can't we have some drama made around them being a couple?

I think you're getting ahead of yourself here. You should at least wait and see how the story handles the character, rather than being so dead-set on hating the very idea of it. I understand that this is as much a reaction thread as a discussion thread, but this is reactionary to a degree that your argument starts to lose its substance.

If the mere existence of a love rival (who obviously won't ruin Nanoha and Chidori's relationship) is enough to make you unable to enjoy any moments at all between the main couple, I guess you'll need to put it on hold for a while. You'll be missing out on a lot of great series with that attitude, though.

Hm...I mean, she doesn't seem to be evil, more like the type that will fight for her chance and challenge her love rival like a good sport.

School yuri romance has few drama options anyway.

-Death of an important person
- Parents / friends that are against yuri for some reason
- Love Rival
- "I have stuff to do, let's see each other in 5 years "

Nothing too exciting.Too bad action / fantasy yuri is so rare. Casual schoolgirl romance stories will always be the same.

oH GOD, a love rival comes up, we're fucked.
We all know that when a love rival appears, the relationship ALWAYS breaks apart or starts going through a war.
Here we go boys, fasten your seatbelts, this is going to be tough.

last edited at Dec 2, 2019 8:39AM

MacySan posted:

Why are people so upset about some potential drama? You can't always have just fluff.

Form me personally it's more that adding sudden love rival/someone messing with established relationship is cliche af and incredibly lazy. I saw it way too many times and it's way overused as if there wasn't possibly be any other issue author could explore instead. There's slim chance it'll be executed well or with a twist, but honestly it's not really worth the pain of reading through it, especially if it takes some time to resolve. If she manages to break them up, well, she just managed to ruin the pair people are rooting for. If she don't, then until this plot thread concludes, that's all I'll be able to focus on, taking away any enjoyment I could have from anything else currently going on, fluff or not. It's simply cheap and forced drama for the sake of drama. There are countless better things to write about. There's so little actual stories focusing on couple life, so why when they are finally a couple, most of drama is usually focused around trying to break them or keeping them apart? Can't we have some drama made around them being a couple?

I don't like this cliche either, but specifically for this story I don't see her posing any actual threat. So I don't feel like I can't enjoy this because of Mai.
I'll wait to see her development. So far she's just an extra character, and from the raws she still doesn't cause any major drama
Who knows, it could even be beneficial if Chidori gets jealous because we might get some action between her and Nanoha because of that.

What rubs me the wrong way is that this series just recently had a triangle drama (ex-girlfriend) and now its about to do third-wheel-from-the-past again...?

What rubs me the wrong way is that this series just recently had a triangle drama (ex-girlfriend) and now its about to do third-wheel-from-the-past again...?

An understandable concern, but rest assured, Mai and the Sempai are nothing alike.

Uh.. the Netorare tag I smell here :( (i'm not english and not so good my english so sorry if my sentences are not spelled correctly)

Cheating is way too dark for this series. I don't think your sense of smell is functioning correctly.

(Lehet lehet az angolom még mindig nagyon rossz :D)
Ohh You’re right, well, I still don't know exactly in English

MacySan posted:

Why are people so upset about some potential drama? You can't always have just fluff.

Form me personally it's more that adding sudden love rival/someone messing with established relationship is cliche af and incredibly lazy. I saw it way too many times and it's way overused as if there wasn't possibly be any other issue author could explore instead. There's slim chance it'll be executed well or with a twist, but honestly it's not really worth the pain of reading through it, especially if it takes some time to resolve. If she manages to break them up, well, she just managed to ruin the pair people are rooting for. If she don't, then until this plot thread concludes, that's all I'll be able to focus on, taking away any enjoyment I could have from anything else currently going on, fluff or not. It's simply cheap and forced drama for the sake of drama. There are countless better things to write about. There's so little actual stories focusing on couple life, so why when they are finally a couple, most of drama is usually focused around trying to break them or keeping them apart? Can't we have some drama made around them being a couple?

I think you're getting ahead of yourself here. You should at least wait and see how the story handles the character, rather than being so dead-set on hating the very idea of it.

For this person to pop out of nowhere with the flick of a switch is a plotting mistake that has already happened. That's what rubs me the wrong way about it. The story hasn't fumbled like this before (which is quite a feat already, no matter what happens next). I guess the author hadn't outlined more of the story and, since the story has turned out so popular, has needed to start making stuff up as she goes along with extra pressure.

igenetycs posted:

I think you're getting ahead of yourself here. You should at least wait and see how the story handles the character, rather than being so dead-set on hating the very idea of it. I understand that this is as much a reaction thread as a discussion thread, but this is reactionary to a degree that your argument starts to lose its substance.

If the mere existence of a love rival (who obviously won't ruin Nanoha and Chidori's relationship) is enough to make you unable to enjoy any moments at all between the main couple, I guess you'll need to put it on hold for a while. You'll be missing out on a lot of great series with that attitude, though.

I was speaking more in general, rather than specifically about this series since MacySan asked why people hate drama. About what you said, you see, it's just I read a lot of mangas so I have very good idea how that kind of set up usually goes. My issue isn't that this particular plot can't be handled well, as I already said. My issue is that it pretty much pops up in every single romance story ever. It's so overdone at this point, it's just annoying. And as you said yourself, the outcome is obvious, so all it accomplishes is a trainwreck of emotions and drama, that either ultimately reverts to status quo making entire thing feel pointless or actually breaks up main couple. If it does affect main couple in some meaningful way, without splitting them, it rarely is a positive one. When I'm invested in story, I put my feels on the line and I read enough of those to know that my feels are not worth going through this kind of drama. It's simply very taxing and in this kind of mostly fluff story all it accomplishes is ruining the fluffy feeling you have, because at the back of your head you constantly need to remember about it and if it takes more central stage, then well there's no more fluff and only drama. Again, love rival or someone manipulating to break up/mess up with main couple is so overdone in all romance stories it's the easiest and cheapest way to create drama. For me, and going by this thread a lot other people too, seeing someone trying to go in between or ruin main couple is the last thing I want to read in romance story, yet those tropes are the most prevalent in entire genre, because they're the easiest to generate emotions in reader. In short, seeing love rival doesn't give me "How will this play out!?" reaction, but more of "Sigh, here we go again..." one.

MagiMaki posted:

School yuri romance has few drama options anyway.

-Death of an important person
- Parents / friends that are against yuri for some reason
- Love Rival
- "I have stuff to do, let's see each other in 5 years "

You have really poor imagination if that is all you can think of. Sadly most authors are just like you.

last edited at Dec 2, 2019 9:46AM

MagiMaki posted:

School yuri romance has few drama options anyway.

-Death of an important person
- Parents / friends that are against yuri for some reason
- Love Rival
- "I have stuff to do, let's see each other in 5 years "

You have really poor imagination if that is all you can think of. Sadly most authors are just like you.

For some reason, this sounds (at least in my head) like a half-hearted attempt at a roast.