I think this manga, and others, reflect a change in consciousness that is ongoing in Japan. What used to be played as subtext, or covered in symbolism (Utena), now is being faced. I think if Nanoha was remade today they wouldn't shy away from marrying Nanoha and Fate. Yagakimi got an anime and has done really well. This manga exists in the context of modern day Japan, not Europe or the US.

If it seems preachy, I think it's because we come from a place where the issues are more worked out. Not perfectly, but to a greater degree for sure. Keep in mind that same sex marriage is still not available in Japan.

We will know things have really changed when you get something that looks like it should be a harem anime but you can't tell who is going to hook up with who of what gender.

yall just gonna ignore the fact those people look like they're cosplayers minus the anime?

Seeing Kotone break down there at the end was really hard to read. I really felt for her a lot there. Hopefully next chapter she will feel better. Also I'd love to see her and Mei fall for each other. At the very least I want both of them to be able to have happy relationships.

Bro you really fucking dropped everything even resembling an interesting point when you pulled the apartheid comparison

We will know things have really changed when you get something that looks like it should be a harem anime but you can't tell who is going to hook up with who of what gender.

That would be my dream manga

I think this manga, and others, reflect a change in consciousness that is ongoing in Japan. What used to be played as subtext, or covered in symbolism (Utena), now is being faced. I think if Nanoha was remade today they wouldn't shy away from marrying Nanoha and Fate. Yagakimi got an anime and has done really well. This manga exists in the context of modern day Japan, not Europe or the US.

If it seems preachy, I think it's because we come from a place where the issues are more worked out. Not perfectly, but to a greater degree for sure. Keep in mind that same sex marriage is still not available in Japan.

Interestingly an anime that was basically the modern Nanoha just ended, you may or may not know it idk. Senki Zesshou Symphogear is an anime series with a number of similarities, and flat out inspirations, from Nanoha. It's got high tech magical girls who are genuinly badass, it also has LOADS of gay subtext. In the final episode of the show much of that gay subtext comes to a head, and all plausible deniability basically goes out the window, it's to the point that anyone denying it is absolutely full of shit. That said, there is no kiss at the end, and the show cuts off right as a confession is about to be said,but again it isn't ambiguous at all, the audience knows it is a love confession and the creators know we know, but they still didn't show it for some reason i can't quite grasp.
Anyway, I think that's pretty indicative of the weird ambiguous place a lot of lgbt representation is in Japan right now.

Yes! Mogu finally standing up for themselves.

How have I been sleeping on this manga?!

Mogumo is cute
Suzu is cute (Suzu and Haruto are super cute together)
Mei is cute
Ten-chan is cute
Tetsu is cute
Sacchan is cute
(Kotone is currently pending)

Everyone in this damn manga is super cute! As a nonbinary it was tough going through Mogumo's life and everyone's confusion and wildly wrong assertion that they had to be a "boy" or a "girl" but it definitely picked up when people started stating that "Mogumo is just Mogumo" because that is the general feel of how nonbinaries represent. Also, I'm not transgender, but did anyone else cringe at the word "girlyboy"?
I do like that they touch on transgender but also touch on men just wanting to dress up. Ten-chan just wants to be who he wants, Suzu likes dressing up but he's gay and simply a man, Sacchan and Mei are transgender women and Mogumo is nonbinary and I love that it's beginning to be just an open space of being who they are. It was a rough start at first but I can't wait to read more.

What I have a beef with is that it's yet again a manga with a catalog of LGBTQ+ people, all conveniently grouped in a single place, who are, conveniently again, learning about how to be comfortable with themselves, and are, conveniently, receiving life-lessons from various nice people. Nothing wrong per se with that, but it's a bit angelic.

And too forced.

Conflicts are magically resolved, bigoted people who spit in the face of, or beat up gay couples because they dared to kiss basically don't exist. A few dialogs and lo, everyone becomes tolerant, or discover their own identity. Gay people attempting suicide or losing their home doesn't seem to be a thing. "All you need is love and understanding!" (cue for a frog to play a mandolin and sing)

As if... we are talking about Japanese society here. Not really a gay friendly society.

Fukakai na Boku no Subete o
Kanojo ni Naritai.
Giniro no Genders
Shimanami Tasogare

They are all trying to be all inclusive and somehow gay friendly. They come off, to me as, "these deviant people aren't stable psychologically and tend to gather together. Beware, they are among us! Try to understand them..."

Bleh... this is just my opinion/feeling. If you enjoy this manga, more power to you.

The thing is though LGBT+ people do tend to converge and group up. My friends are all gay, bisexual or transgender both in real life and online so I can see this happening. Also, I don't need all my mangas about queers to be depressing, I get enough of that from real life. Japan is still slow to accept LGBT+ so them all having a safe haven and being who they are is also believable.

How have I been sleeping on this manga?!

Mogumo is cute
Suzu is cute (Suzu and Haruto are super cute together)
Mei is cute
Ten-chan is cute
Tetsu is cute
Sacchan is cute
(Kotone is currently pending)

Everyone in this damn manga is super cute! As a nonbinary it was tough going through Mogumo's life and everyone's confusion and wildly wrong assertion that they had to be a "boy" or a "girl" but it definitely picked up when people started stating that "Mogumo is just Mogumo" because that is the general feel of how nonbinaries represent. Also, I'm not transgender, but did anyone else cringe at the word "girlyboy"?
I do like that they touch on transgender but also touch on men just wanting to dress up. Ten-chan just wants to be who he wants, Suzu likes dressing up but he's gay and simply a man, Sacchan and Mei are transgender women and Mogumo is nonbinary and I love that it's beginning to be just an open space of being who they are. It was a rough start at first but I can't wait to read more.

What I have a beef with is that it's yet again a manga with a catalog of LGBTQ+ people, all conveniently grouped in a single place, who are, conveniently again, learning about how to be comfortable with themselves, and are, conveniently, receiving life-lessons from various nice people. Nothing wrong per se with that, but it's a bit angelic.

And too forced.

Conflicts are magically resolved, bigoted people who spit in the face of, or beat up gay couples because they dared to kiss basically don't exist. A few dialogs and lo, everyone becomes tolerant, or discover their own identity. Gay people attempting suicide or losing their home doesn't seem to be a thing. "All you need is love and understanding!" (cue for a frog to play a mandolin and sing)

As if... we are talking about Japanese society here. Not really a gay friendly society.

Fukakai na Boku no Subete o
Kanojo ni Naritai.
Giniro no Genders
Shimanami Tasogare

They are all trying to be all inclusive and somehow gay friendly. They come off, to me as, "these deviant people aren't stable psychologically and tend to gather together. Beware, they are among us! Try to understand them..."

Bleh... this is just my opinion/feeling. If you enjoy this manga, more power to you.

The thing is though LGBT+ people do tend to converge and group up. My friends are all gay, bisexual or transgender both in real life and online so I can see this happening. Also, I don't need all my mangas about queers to be depressing, I get enough of that from real life. Japan is still slow to accept LGBT+ so them all having a safe haven and being who they are is also believable.
HI 5 fellow enby
Anyways Kotone I think is going to end up with Mei

oh hey new chapter what's going on in he-- (reeling) (mario voice) O O F

Kanojo ni Naritai.is a bit different, because it all happens in a single school, but actually, I'm not interested in stories about LGBT communities.

While I understand the need for some people to group up for protection, the whole concept of "communities", whatever group they are (black, white, gay, latino, christian, jewish, muslim, abc, trans, all of the above, whatever...) looks like a failure to me. Even the flags irk me. It reeks of nationalism. And nationalism is war.

I know that the model of the American/English society is built on communities, but it looks like apartheid to me. It's a model built on distrust. It looks comfortable, at first, because you're among people who share your worldview, but these communities are doomed to oppose each other because isolation leads to groupthink and incomprehension. As intelligent beings and part of he same species, we should be able to live and let live together, whatever the background, identity, or sexual preference. We should have grown out of the tribe mentality.

Now, I sound idealistic and in contradiction with my previous rant about how these manga are angelic, but what I have a problem with is the concept of "people of the same feather flock together" and how it somehow is something positive in the long run and it solves problems. These people help each other, but at the same time, they isolate themselves from the "other". This, in return, leads to hostility from narrow minded people from all sides who feel threatened by the "alien" community. We have seen here numerous times that some LGBTQ+ people can be as intolerant as anyone when it comes to other lifestyles, especially when they feel secure in their group. Lesbians hating on trans, trans hating on cis, gay hating on bi, etc...

I don't have a magical solution to these problems, but I'm sure as hell that communitarianism isn't one.

It's silly to cry about the sky being blue. You better start getting used to it. Humans group up with other like minded humans. It is our nature.

last edited at Dec 7, 2019 12:29PM

HI 5 fellow enby
Anyways Kotone I think is going to end up with Mei

waves
eey!! :) 'ellooo! I think so too, and wouldn't that be absolutely precious! Having a Transgender woman with a lesbian is breaking the barrier and the stigma against it! I love it :)

people legit comparing this series to giniro no genders are insane, this is the real deal, legit experiences, this last episode is stuff thats happened to me and a lot of people personally

hellowitchy posted:

people legit comparing this series to giniro no genders are insane, this is the real deal, legit experiences, this last episode is stuff thats happened to me and a lot of people personally

What!? But I'm regularly being blackmailed by some random girls to be used in revenge on their exes!

last edited at Dec 7, 2019 3:48PM

I was on the fence before, but after this chapter, it seems like we might really get a Mei and Kotone pairing, and I for one welcome it, of course, I think Kotone still has some growing to do, but she'll get there.

Out of all the transgender based series on this site (of which I think there are three) I think this one is my favorite.

Also, I'm definitely starting to ship Kotone and Mei.

Big oof in the feels on that last page

Out of all the transgender based series on this site (of which I think there are three) I think this one is my favorite.

Also, I'm definitely starting to ship Kotone and Mei.

Absolutely agree with both.

This author's specialty is yaoi.

It shows. They don't know how to write yuri.

Kanojo ni Naritai.is a bit different, because it all happens in a single school, but actually, I'm not interested in stories about LGBT communities.

While I understand the need for some people to group up for protection, the whole concept of "communities", whatever group they are (black, white, gay, latino, christian, jewish, muslim, abc, trans, all of the above, whatever...) looks like a failure to me. Even the flags irk me. It reeks of nationalism. And nationalism is war.

I know that the model of the American/English society is built on communities, .... We should have grown out of the tribe mentality.

Now, I sound idealistic and in contradiction ... when they feel secure in their group. Lesbians hating on trans, trans hating on cis, gay hating on bi, etc...

I don't have a magical solution to these problems, but I'm sure as hell that communitarianism isn't one.

I dunno where you learned about sociology, but American/English society is highly individualistic in most situations scenarios outside of direct class based issues and because of those class based issues, minority communities form in spite of the individualism.

Intercommunity issues aside, as any individual is capable of displaying whatever sort of bigotry even if it effects themselves or people similar to them, having a solid community does genuinely help people, especially minorities. Just look at history and you can see this in action de facto and de jure. They're places for understanding and having support for each other in a world that's otherwise hostile and isolating, especially when it comes to minority groups who often find that kinship because of oppressive social structures.

I'm not sure what you really expect though as a solution at all? Like, Kotone ain't just gonna get along fine with her life by just hanging out with straight girls. She can't get that deeper degree of intimacy and empathy from them so its not going to help her period. What does help her, and what's pretty well illustrated and factual to life experiences is her attempting to push past her own personal hang ups and go to a community that'll hopefully let her love herself and folks she can love, i.e. her going to the cafe. Same applies for many of the other characters in the manga you've mentioned.

If you're concerned about her or any other character in these or other mangas becoming a hetero/cisphobe or whatever nonsense, I'd genuinely recommend you learn some political theory and history, like what power dynamics are and how they apply to majority/minority groups. You'll hopefully walk away from these manga with way less hang ups.

last edited at Dec 8, 2019 6:01AM

Bruuuuhhh so when she went on how “they all like guys” she was worried she wouldn’t find a girl who likes other girls? SHE JUST WENT TO A LITERAL GAY PRIDE PARADE THERES GOTTA BE A LESBIAN OR TWO SOMEWHERE, unless im reading all this wrong but honestly thats the ghist i get from it

Bruuuuhhh so when she went on how “they all like guys” she was worried she wouldn’t find a girl who likes other girls? SHE JUST WENT TO A LITERAL GAY PRIDE PARADE THERES GOTTA BE A LESBIAN OR TWO SOMEWHERE, unless im reading all this wrong but honestly thats the ghist i get from it

That's what is kinda the issue, she had given up because society's expectations + past experience was that it wouldn't work, she went to the parade and saw that the magical reality she had hoped for COULD exist in this world, but she would have to open herself to it... Despite believing that was impossible, and other girls only liked guys.

I mean, if you wanna smash clams you gotta admit you prefer seafood to sausage first. And you gotta be willing to risk telling other people. She could barely admit it to herself, and her crushes were all straight or at least she never found out if they would swing her way.

Lovely chapter, as always FukaBoku just blows the other current transgender themed manga out of the water with its genuine approach.

This author's specialty is yaoi.

It shows. They don't know how to write yuri.

I mean realistically speaking any author is going to have some weak spots if only because they don't have enough lived experiences to deeply grasp everything. Maybe if you had a multi-author writing team or something. The author's focus and specialization here means this isn't going to be a world-class Yuri Story, but that's fine isn't it? This is an ensemble cast featuring people across the spectrum and it's clearly not trying to downplay the L side of the spectrum.

I'm certainly not going to hold weaker depictions of lesbian relationships against the author if she's straight or ace...

Most manga featuring trans themes that get adapted into english are pretty weak in the same fashion, because they're written by people without the lived experience to go from. They have to go off friends' second hand stories or research, which is really difficult! There are trans people writing manga or LNs about their experiences in japan, but a lot of them don't get localized right now (that's changing, thankfully) and some of them simply don't want to write about being trans. I think that's valid and something we have to accept when trying to engage with the LGBT content we do get over here: A lot of it's going to be deeply flawed and a lot is going to be more heavily weighted towards BL or GL.

One example you're probably familiar with if you frequent dynasty: I consider YUI_7 a world class GL artist (though her plots are a bit... confusing...) and while she's trans she hasn't written about it in her work at all (I asked her about that on Twitter and she was kind enough to answer). I don't know whether she's a lesbian either, I don't recall her disclosing that anywhere in public. Whether she is or not I think her work is good.

last edited at Dec 8, 2019 8:40AM