Shitty conservative father destroys his family.

News at eleven.

...and adults should act like adults.

Ok, now that's how you make good drama. At first it seemed like Mogu's sister was just next one of those 1 dimensional characters that show up just to bring conflict to the story and nothing more, but it's actually more complicated than that and she's not here just to stir some shit. Also I like that it actually give us insight into Mogu's family situation and that mangaka didn't totally ignore it. Turns out Mogu's parents tried to be supportive at first, not letting the gender roles etc. bother them too much and giving Mogu a pretty free hand in terms of their expression during their childhood. The issue is with time they expected Mogu to grow out from it at some point and more or less settle into "male" identity, but that didn't happen and instead Mogu kept insisting they're neither and wanted to keep expressing themselves ambiguously. That's probably when a lot of Mogu's angst happened (arguing about their gender with their parents, having to go to school in male uniform, being listed as male etc.) which eventually lead to Mogu wearing female uniform to school and moving out, mother having a mental breakdown, father realizing giving Mogu so much freedom was a mistake and he should have been more strict with them and sister getting caught in all that drama, without really doing anything wrong herself. Under normal circumstances, her father probably wouldn't have any issues with short hair or soccer, but now that Mogu made a precedent for it leading to problems, he become much less forgiving. So on one hand she tries to be supportive of her sibling and understands it's their parents fault, but on the other hand she can't help but think, if Mogu wasn't the way they are, all of this would never happened in the first place. After all she ended up taking the brunt of it as unlike Mogu she still have to live with her parents and deal with the fallout of the situation. Also just because mom had a mental breakdown it doesn't mean she wasn't at fault as well. After all the reason she had it in the first place was the stress from Mogu not wanting to conform to 1 gender and insisting they're neither, which I assume she was just as much against as Mogu's father. If she was ok with it, she wouldn't break over it.

last edited at Jun 5, 2020 7:25AM

big oof

Also just because mom had a mental breakdown it doesn't mean she wasn't at fault as well. After all the reason she had it in the first place was the stress from Mogu not wanting to conform to 1 gender and insisting they're neither, which I assume she was just as much against as Mogu's father. If she was ok with it, she wouldn't break over it.

I would like to point out, tho, that I believe that their mother might've been pushed by their father as well. By the way he reacted to Sakura suggested Mogu coming back, it's highly possible the last days they lived with them were a living hell, and that might've caused the breakdown.

I'm not saying she might be completely out of fault, but maybe she would've been able to eventually be ok with Mogu's gender if she had had the chance to go through the process without him.

Sakura's reactions when her dad says it'd be hell if she ended up as a guy and how she'd make a great wife makes me feel like there's something else there as well. It could be that she wished she could be/have been born a guy, even if it would just be caused by a wish to be as free as Mogu. Just something that I thought was interesting, since she's almost the opposite of Mogu in the sense that she seems to prefer a more "boyish" attire.

On another note... I hate when people say shit like "I'm working hard so you can eat". This is such an idiotic attitude to have and is irrelevant when it comes down to it. It's not his family's fault he has to work hours and hours on end to get a decent wage, no need to use them as his punching bag.

Also Sakura is not an objective narrator. It's important to remember she's a child who is clearly in an abusive household. She blames Mogu for her mom's depression, but I'm glad to see we're all correctly identifying the father, a reactionary authoritarian, is the problem. We'll have to wait to see more but I'm getting the impression mom misses Mogu and wants the best for them, but they don't know how to navigate the situation.

kozakuraaki posted:

I would like to point out, tho, that I believe that their mother might've been pushed by their father as well. By the way he reacted to Sakura suggested Mogu coming back, it's highly possible the last days they lived with them were a living hell, and that might've caused the breakdown.

I'm not saying she might be completely out of fault, but maybe she would've been able to eventually be ok with Mogu's gender if she had had the chance to go through the process without him.

After thinking it through, I might have misunderstood the implication. I thought what dad said meant that they both gave Mogu freedom of expression and once Mogu started to insist that they're neither gender, he felt like that was a bad idea and turned into being overly strict instead, but it's possible that it was only mom who was ok with it and talked dad into allowing it. So he was actually trying to hold back with being too strict, but once Mogu didn't want to be considered a boy, he lost it and decided to double down on his normal strictness. So it's very possible that indeed a big part of why mom had a mental breakdown was arguing with dad over Mogu.

Sakura's reactions when her dad says it'd be hell if she ended up as a guy and how she'd make a great wife makes me feel like there's something else there as well. It could be that she wished she could be/have been born a guy, even if it would just be caused by a wish to be as free as Mogu. Just something that I thought was interesting, since she's almost the opposite of Mogu in the sense that she seems to prefer a more "boyish" attire.

On another note... I hate when people say shit like "I'm working hard so you can eat". This is such an idiotic attitude to have and is irrelevant when it comes down to it. It's not his family's fault he has to work hours and hours on end to get a decent wage, no need to use them as his punching bag.

Japanese culture is harsh on family life in general. I saw on like a Norito video that most couples/families see each other about 30 mins a day due to work. Throwing in a non traditional child, they don't literally have they time to handle shiiiiit. Not saying it's right, but I take this chapter as a criticism of Japan's lack of family structure and forced gender roles.

People are just going to be who they are, no matter how you want them to be. Even if you're their parent, your kids are different people from you.

Yeah, it seems to me like dad is the one destroying the family, and mom... Oh man, well, she's just blaming herself but it's not clear for what exactly. The family is falling apart because the "idea" of family the adults have is a fake one and they don't realize it.

Obviously Mogu can't go back to that house. Really Sakura shouldn't be in that house. The adults need some counseling, but in Japan there is a stigma about that. The kids both need to live somewhere else for the time being.

I want to punch their dad so many times.

Also, I don't expect a kid to understand, especially in that household, but when someone is trying to help (mom saying she'll go get groceries), you DON'T stop them. Maybe you do it together, if you're still unsure. But never stop someone in that situation because it prevents them from growing or getting better.

People are just going to be who they are, no matter how you want them to be. Even if you're their parent, your kids are different people from you.

Yeah, it seems to me like dad is the one destroying the family, and mom... Oh man, well, she's just blaming herself but it's not clear for what exactly. The family is falling apart because the "idea" of family the adults have is a fake one and they don't realize it.

Obviously Mogu can't go back to that house. Really Sakura shouldn't be in that house. The adults need some counseling, but in Japan there is a stigma about that. The kids both need to live somewhere else for the time being.

Honestly, Mogu's mom should divorce their dad. He's clearly an abusive fuckstick who is ruining his daughter and wife's emotional lives, leaving them both with serious mental health problems, and who has estranged himself from Mogu. He is 100% all of their problems and everybody would be happier if he took a long walk off a short pier. I hope Sakura gets a chance to see Tetsu's family dynamic and realize that her dad is an abusive shithead.

Is this manga an accurate representation of non-binary people?

Is this manga an accurate representation of non-binary people?

Well Mogumo's identity is continually validated by the manga and there hasn't been any nasty stereotypes, so yeah. The only thing that I can imagine might turn some ppl off is that Mogumo is very feminine leaning. Well, and sometimes pronouns aren't used correctly, but that's more on the part of the translators than the actual manga.

zero sympathy. can't wait for this part to be over

I think we can all agree that the dad is a shitty person. The question is how will the series deal with him? Will he see the error of his ways, or will Sakura and her mom end leaving him?

Is this manga an accurate representation of non-binary people?

nb people are on a very wide spectrum (perhaps better worded lack of a spectrum?)
so an accurate representation is a bit hard to pin in my opinion .
but as someone who is nb i can say i love mogu and this manga very much !

Is this manga an accurate representation of non-binary people?

Adding on, the idea that a representation can be or not be "accurate" is hard to pin down because of the great diversity of non-binary people. Mogu explicitly describes themself as neither male nor female, suggesting a gender, but there are also people who are third gender, bigender, genderfluid, etc, not to mention the many non-binary genders specific to particular cultures such as two-spirit people.

It's kind of like asking if a female character is an accurate depiction of a woman. What would that mean? Do we mean avoiding misogynistic tropes? Do we mean it successfully investigates the female experience? If so, what are we describing as the "female experience"?

For what it's worth, yes. The manga avoids bad tropes about non-binary people. It does discuss and investigate the non-binary experience, though we must recognize that it's only one version of that experience. Which is fine, we just need to understand there are many other ways to be non-binary and that those experiences are different. (And it would be a stretch to argue that author is portraying Mogu's life as the only type of non-binary experience.)

Specifically it looks into cisnormativity, heteronormativity, social acceptance, dysphoria, how being non-binary can affect friendships, how being non-binary can affect romance, and with the last couple chapters we now have how being non-binary can affect family relationships.

I wonder if it's considered a good representation of trans girls, wondering as a nonbinary person.

Hmmm is odd that someone would ask if this is an accurate representation and then 5 comments later someone ask if this is a good representation.

Speaking of yes or no, ANN did a review and https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review/love-me-for-who-i-am/.161220 ... this person didn't took it well, not at all, so according to ANN this is a very bad representation, I don't know if someone here could agree.

last edited at Jun 30, 2020 1:35PM

As a trans girl I can say that this is pretty good representation wise. All the trans women are well portrayed, Mei especially is very relatable to me, and they're all properly written as characters instead of them just being "representation" or whatever. The story doesn't much deal with the problems that come with being trans, rather it's more focused on portraying different kinds of "weird" people in a positive light, which is also why the mc is a cis guy instead of a trans character.

As a trans girl I can say that this is pretty good representation wise. All the trans women are well portrayed, Mei especially is very relatable to me, and they're all properly written as characters instead of them just being "representation" or whatever. The story doesn't much deal with the problems that come with being trans, rather it's more focused on portraying different kinds of "weird" people in a positive light, which is also why the mc is a cis guy instead of a trans character.

What? Tetsu is not the main character, Mogumo is, Tetsu is the deuteragonist or maybe a co-protagonist at best. He was introduced as the POV character, but that quickly changed. Even when he is serving as the POV character, the story still revolves around Mogumo and their relationship with others.

Hmmm is odd that someone would ask if this is an accurate representation and then 5 comments later someone ask if this is a good representation.

Speaking of yes or no, ANN did a review and https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review/love-me-for-who-i-am/.161220 ... this person didn't took it well, not at all, so according to ANN this is a very bad representation, I don't know if someone here could agree.

Yeah, I massively disagree with that review. She's just flat out wrong in a number of ways. For example, the author of that review claims that Mogumo's efforts to be feminine indicate the mangaka thinks that Mogumo's gender is for the benefit of Tetsu or something, but they are flat out wrong, this is just a review about the first volume and they are making sweeping assumptions about a plot point that hasn't been resolved yet. That subplot very clearly concludes in the next volume that Mogumo shouldn't change themself for others, tbh im not sure why the reviewer didn't see that it would obviously resolve this way, i knew before the actual resolution, how that would end. Other complaints just seemed like weird nitpicking to me, like they were upset the manga doesn't go into why these characters are trans, which to me is extremely reductive, i don't have some elaborate reason why im trans, i just am.

Well it has a heated discussion there, some people agree, a lot of people disagree, others are even disappointed and mad with it, like you said even if they go in deep or not about the reasons or details about transexuals, you shouldn't expect all that from just one volume.
I think the reviewers (like many people in the comments at ANN) found out that the author also does hentai works and that's the angle they took to completely disregard this works (based on some comments mocking the manga saying this is just a fetishism manga) the characters and even the author.

A moderator said that this is just the opinion of one person and that she has the right to think that way, we can agree or disagree and that's okay but the impact and the reach that ANN has for the community shouldn't be taking lightly as just an opinion, considering there are people who were waiting all their lives for a works like this.

I deleted my account there last year because I couldn't stand the same people in the forums that always show up when there's something bad to say about the industry of anime, Japan as a country and their artists but they're ghosts when there's a trailer or good news, I I wish they could take a good look at the mood they create and change.