Let's not bring up the massive poo stain that is India in here (or any other 1st/2nd world country conversation), thank you.

This country will forever & always be stuck with medieval laws & social rules. :^)

Everybody is free to bring India here. Keep your hate and shitty predictions of a country you don't know for yourself, thank you.

...you do realise that by what they're saying they live there, right.

Let's not bring up the massive poo stain that is India in here (or any other 1st/2nd world country conversation), thank you.

This country will forever & always be stuck with medieval laws & social rules. :^)

Everybody is free to bring India here. Keep your hate and shitty predictions of a country you don't know for yourself, thank you.

...you do realise that by what they're saying they live there, right.

It's the internet, no need to read before opening fire.

Rather than verbal abuse, I'd call it sexual harassment. I mean, he did went on and on about her looks, if was she cute or ugly looking like that, and stuff. Talking about that, whether to praise or to neg, is harassment by my book.

And yeah, Das Boot is writing from India, lol.

drama incoming

As a wise man once said: "You made my girl cry, now you die."

In all seriousness though, Fujishiro overreacted and we all know it. He said some bad stuff, but it was pretty superficial and falls in line with his job of disciplinary (read totalitarian) control. Don't counter verbal transgressions with physical violence, no matter how angry you are.

On the other hand I am very happy that Fujishiro gets mad on her behalf all the time. Her inner turmoil is overshadowed by how much she likes Kurokawa. This could so easily devolve into her rejecting Kurokawa just because she is jealous, but instead she appreciates her more.

last edited at Dec 20, 2018 4:23AM

There's just something wrong with this manga. It's composed entirely of cliches (really reminds me of Girl Friends in that regard) but somehow the message just feels so much more toxic than usual. It feels like this mangaka's sole interaction with human society is via reading romance manga (written by authors whose sole interaction with human society was via reading romance manga, and so on 5 levels deep).

The absurd focus on appearance is just too much. The only thing the characters care about is looking cute, and the only attacks they're vulnerable to are being criticized for not being cute—everything else they just shrug off. They don't need friends as long as they can look cute.

The worst was probably those guys at the pool. They're the usual really pushy guys who just haunt every pool, beach, and downtown shopping district in every romance manga, But when they switch tactics from trying to pick up Fujishiro to insulting Kurokawa, she completely flips her shit. They're random strangers who were just harassing you, why do you even care what they're saying? You were just yelling at them to leave you alone seconds before, and now their negative opinions are some kind of existential threat? You need to prove them wrong by tearing off Kurokawa's glasses and showing off her face?

Something is deeply wrong with the world of this manga, and wrong with the characters as well. This pursuit of cuteness is framed as some kind of critical quest for self-acceptance rather than the shallow consumerist bullshit that it is, and there's only rarely a glimpse of anything deeper than that.

Something is deeply wrong with the world of this manga, and wrong with the characters as well. This pursuit of cuteness is framed as some kind of critical quest for self-acceptance rather than the shallow consumerist bullshit that it is, and there's only rarely a glimpse of anything deeper than that.

iunno, felt pretty real to me, at least in a high school setting. A time pretty much dedicated for adolescence to find acceptance in any way they can, and if looking good is the way than so be it.

just my two cents

Honestly nobodies mentioning how the asshole teacher doesn't want to make a big deal out of this?

It means he knows this could stain the reputation of the school meaning he knows he shouldn't have said anything.

I also hate teachers like this because even in America I had a teacher who abused her power when I went to highschool.

Whatever the teacher said, she shouldn't have assaulted him physically. Sure, maybe he's on a power trip, and sexist to boot, but the way to handle this kind of abuse is through parents. After all, in Japan, they are the ones paying for High School.

In any normal setting, she would have faced a disciplinary committee and handed a worse sentence than just a week suspension.

The worst was probably those guys at the pool. They're the usual really pushy guys who just haunt every pool, beach, and downtown shopping district in every romance manga, But when they switch tactics from trying to pick up Fujishiro to insulting Kurokawa, she completely flips her shit. They're random strangers who were just harassing you, why do you even care what they're saying? You were just yelling at them to leave you alone seconds before, and now their negative opinions are some kind of existential threat? You need to prove them wrong by tearing off Kurokawa's glasses and showing off her face?

Nanaki feels compelled to prove them wrong because of how Kurokawa is.
Kurokawa has been saddled with feelings of worthlessness all her life, and telling her to ignore the people putting her down isn't going to change that. It's Kurokawa's feelings that concern Nanaki more than anything.
Remember it was Kurokawa's tears that made Nanaki hit the teacher, not the insult itself.

The only thing the characters care about is looking cute, and the only attacks they're vulnerable to are being criticized for not being cute—everything else they just shrug off. They don't need friends as long as they can look cute.

It's not that they don't need friends, them losing their friends was a show of why their friends weren't good friends - although for different reasons - and those reasons reflect their own flaws, which is why they needed to cut those friends off. They obviously need friends because the entire manga started off Kurokawa showing genuine empathy to Nanaki, something she likely experienced rarely at best knowing the circle she choose to associate with.

last edited at Dec 20, 2018 2:59PM

As a wise man once said: "You made my girl cry, now you die."

In all seriousness though, Fujishiro overreacted and we all know it. He said some bad stuff, but it was pretty superficial and falls in line with his job of disciplinary (read totalitarian) control. Don't counter verbal transgressions with physical violence, no matter how angry you are.

On the other hand I am very happy that Fujishiro gets mad on her behalf all the time. Her inner turmoil is overshadowed by how much she likes Kurokawa. This could so easily devolve into her rejecting Kurokawa just because she is jealous, but instead she appreciates her more.

This is pretty much my take on the whole thing. I mean, actually hitting the teacher was like one of the worst ways to go about it but I did like how it showed how much she cares about and wants to protect Fujishiro.

I dont like this manga because it's trying to tell us that you cant be beautiful unless you wear make-up, trim your eyebrows, wear contact lenses (if you wear glasses, take care of your hair.. it's so annoying, it's as if even the author doesnt understand what's wrong with all this

Probably worth noting Fujishiro's behaviour here is entirely consistent with her characterization throughout - she's always acted on her first instincts without concern about possible consequences. This is just the most dramatic iteration so far but then it's also the first time someone's actually made Kurokawa cry in her presence (it's already well established that people dissing her pisses Nanaki off something fierce in general).

...that girl really needs to work on her impulse control a bit tbh, she's checking enough boxes for the mild end of several personality disorders as is. >_>

I'd like to raise some more points in defense of the teacher slapping plot point. Wall of text warning.

First, Fujishiro is the weaker party compared to the teacher, and she was retaliating against a verbal attack on her friend from the teacher. While it's true that normally it's best to use words to solve conflicts, I'm not going to entertain the idea that standing up against a bully or harasser through physical means is wrong. I can't stand this "both sides made mistakes" kind of wishy-washy crap. The teacher is responsible for the consequences of his harassment.

Sorry, rules and laws exist and no matter how righteous you feel, breaking them nets you the consequences. Escalating the issue is never a bright solution. In fact it's stupid as hell.
Physical attacks are not right, even if someone verbally harrasses you. Inform the authorities or harrass them back if you feel like being stupid, but violence ends with you in the worse position. Punching someone who insults you does not count as self-defense.

This isn't even a discussion, it's how we keep our countries from collapsing.

Just wanted to make that clear. The rest is whatever.

I can't stand this "both sides made mistakes" kind of wishy-washy crap. The teacher is responsible for the consequences of his harassment.

I quite understand. Japanese organizations of all kinds (especially the educational ones) have a long-standing tradition of solving conflicts by saying: "Both sides are at fault, so both should apologize and make up." It can be very annoying... not just from a foreigner's point of view, but even for the Japanese themselves, as Kyoko demonstrates in this scene:
Page 1: Kyoko vs. the teacher
Page 2: Kyoko lays down the law

I can't stand this "both sides made mistakes" kind of wishy-washy crap. The teacher is responsible for the consequences of his harassment.

No, he's responsible for provoking her to the point of retaliation. She is responsible for the nature of that retaliation. By your logic, she could have shot him and that would have been his fault.

Although that said, I don't think bagging him was an overreaction. It's a bag, not a sledgehammer.

I was talking about morality, not legality. Also, even laws have extenuating circumstances. Some i can agree with, some I can't. And since I have no idea if you merely got confused about what I was talking about, or you really do think legality is the same as morality: just because something is the law, doesn't make it automatically moral. I feels like I have to point this out in every thread, but things like slavery and marital rape were legal for much of history, right? Even today, it's crazy how much people get away with just because it's technically legal. (Like causing the 2008 market crash and getting off scot-free.) Laws are very often the very things that oppress us - if not more often. Blindly and uncritically following laws is just as irresponsible as blindly giving into rage. But again, I was talking about morality, while you replied as if I had been talking about laws and rules. Don't know what's up with that.

Edit: It sucks that I have to repeat myself, but I never said anything like "hurr durr people should do violence". I was just trying to elaborate on the context of this whole incident, because it bugged me that so many people ignored all the context and condemned Fujishiro as if her actions were more wrong than that of the teacher's. The teacher was the one who abused his power and harassed the students, and then when the students stop tolerating his shit, a lot of Dynastians apparently take the teacher's side. Doesn't that seem kind of messed up?

More than anything, the central point I was trying to make that the teacher smacking incident is not a narrative flaw, but rather an injustice in-universe. Yes, it's bad that Fujishiro Nanaki smacked the teacher, but I can sympathize with her because Kurokawa deserves to be treated with respect as much as anyone else. This is my point. Not "violence = good".

Also, "the rest is whatever"? Youch. You know, as messy as they are, I put a lot of thought into those paragraphs. Not saying it's some sort of analytical masterpiece, it's just a forum post, but it feels kind of bad when someone pops in and dismisses it all out of hand.

No smartypants, this is not "morally" right either. I specifically pointed out that these kinds of rules and laws exist to prevent bigger problems. The laws preventing you from lashing out at people physically just because you feel wronged are absolutely morally right. It's ridiculous to make yourself judge, jury and executioner. If everyone who felt slighted has moral immunity on retaliation we'd never see the end of it. It's a slippery slope.
You can't seperate the two that easily, you are just avoiding the issue based on emotional irrationality.

Who even took the damn teacher's side? Nobody. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me question how much of this is actual reasoning and how much is just you trying to force an agenda about something.
The most people here said is that Fujishiro was in the wrong TOO. Not that the teacher was right in any way. He should have gotten a disciplinary investigation and punishment, but by attacking him violently, Fujishiro completely made that point void.
Again, this is why I said violence is the worst possible reaction and even verbally harrassing him back would have been better (even if still stupid).

It's an injustice alright and you are supposed to feel sympathetic towards them. I wouldn't argue that. You expressed this just in the worst way possible.

My "whatever" was less "This is nonsense" and more "I don't really care to elaborate or engage with these points". Don't take it so personal lol

last edited at Dec 22, 2018 2:38AM

I was talking about morality, not legality. Also, even laws have extenuating circumstances. Some i can agree with, some I can't. And since I have no idea if you merely got confused about what I was talking about, or you really do think legality is the same as morality: just because something is the law, doesn't make it automatically moral. I feels like I have to point this out in every thread, but things like slavery and marital rape were legal for much of history, right? Even today, it's crazy how much people get away with just because it's technically legal. (Like causing the 2008 market crash and getting off scot-free.) Laws are very often the very things that oppress us - if not more often. Blindly and uncritically following laws is just as irresponsible as blindly giving into rage. But again, I was talking about morality, while you replied as if I had been talking about laws and rules. Don't know what's up with that.

Edit: It sucks that I have to repeat myself, but I never said anything like "hurr durr people should do violence". I was just trying to elaborate on the context of this whole incident, because it bugged me that so many people ignored all the context and condemned Fujishiro as if her actions were more wrong than that of the teacher's. The teacher was the one who abused his power and harassed the students, and then when the students stop tolerating his shit, a lot of Dynastians apparently take the teacher's side. Doesn't that seem kind of messed up?

More than anything, the central point I was trying to make that the teacher smacking incident is not a narrative flaw, but rather an injustice in-universe. Yes, it's bad that Fujishiro Nanaki smacked the teacher, but I can sympathize with her because Kurokawa deserves to be treated with respect as much as anyone else. This is my point. Not "violence = good".

Also, "the rest is whatever"? Youch. You know, as messy as they are, I put a lot of thought into those paragraphs. Not saying it's some sort of analytical masterpiece, it's just a forum post, but it feels kind of bad when someone pops in and dismisses it all out of hand.

No smartypants, this is not "morally" right either. I specifically pointed out that these kinds of rules and laws exist to prevent bigger problems. The laws preventing you from lashing out at people physically just because you feel wronged are absolutely morally right. It's ridiculous to make yourself judge, jury and executioner. If everyone who felt slighted has moral immunity on retaliation we'd never see the end of it. It's a slippery slope.
You can't seperate the two that easily, you are just avoiding the issue based on emotional irrationality.

Who even took the damn teacher's side? Nobody. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me question how much of this is actual reasoning and how much is just you trying to force an agenda about something.
The most people here said is that Fujishiro was in the wrong TOO. Not that the teacher was right in any way. He should have gotten a disciplinary investigation and punishment, but by attacking him violently, Fujishiro completely made that point void.
Again, this is why I said violence is the worst possible reaction and even verbally harrassing him back would have been better (even if still stupid).

It's an injustice alright and you are supposed to feel sympathetic towards them. I wouldn't argue that. You expressed this just in the worst way possible.

My "whatever" was less "This is nonsense" and more "I don't really care to elaborate or engage with these points". Don't take it so personal lol

just stop

I'm disappointed that so many people misunderstand this manga... We've explained time and time again, that the thing that makes Fujishiro tick when it comes to Kurokawa is not beauty, but emotions. When Fujishiro helps Kurokawa, and Kurokawa smiles, Fujishiro goes weak at the knees and her heart beats faster. When someone makes Kurokawa cry, Fujishiro gets angry. The beauty theme is important, but the manga isn't saying that beauty matters most. (Edit: or rather, it's saying that people become cuter when someone does something nice for them. This is a similar to Touma-kun's themes, to mention another yuri example.)

And about chapter 8, just like the whole series so far, it highlights the kind of relationship that women are forced into with stuff like beauty and makeup. If you invest "too little" in your appearance, one camp tells you you're not good enough (i.e. Fujishiro at the start of the series). If you invest "too much" in your appearance, another camp will try to tear you down (the teacher). The asshole teacher isn't just a teacher, the point is the kind of attitudes he represents.

I just want to say that this comment and the part 2 of it essentially are really incredible. I’m glad someone actually gives some genuine thought to this manga and didn’t suddenly decide to jump ship because something they didn’t like happened. Which you may have also noticed, happens far too often from what I can tell. I am personally really enjoying this manga as a person who was continuously bullied in elementary through middle school for not meeting people’s standards of looks and even constantly questioned about my gender because of it. And yes, I relate to it because of that, but I also know this story isn’t just about Kurokawa’s appearance or being cute. I guess some people just see it as a story about beauty and looks and nothing else though. Really glad to see your input on this story though as it makes me want to reference all the good points you made if someone doesn’t think it’s worth continuing to read.
Also a side note that I apparently can’t quote your whole post without my reply being regarded as spam haha, however, I did read it all.

BugDevil, Doctor_Hoot, you've said your piece. No need to elaborate, you were both quite clear in your positions.

Everyone else, let us admire these walls of text as an untouchable monument to the points they were making, and sit in quiet contemplation for a moment, before moving on to a glorious new day.

Chaussette posted:

Everybody is free to bring India here. Keep your hate and shitty predictions of a country you don't know for yourself, thank you.

This concept may be foreign to you, but some people don't talk out of their ass, they talk after knowing facts. Learn about this concept before jumping to conclusions, you dumb, arrogant little douch nozzle. :v

(To everyone else: sorry if I sound rude, but I can't stand ignorant idiots '-' )

Wow, so much drama xD

So much drama up there.
She saw kurokawa being emotionally hurt
She must protect, snaps and boom her body moves without thinking I hope they realize their feelings for each other.

I hope they realize their feelings for each other.

Fujishiro is very, very close to realizing her feelings. At this point of things, the wall between her and realization is soap-bubble thin.

Kurokawa, on the other hand, is kind of a mystery at the moment. The latest chapters were shown completely from Fujishiro's point of view. We don't know what Kurokawa was thinking while everything happened.

We sure could use a few peeks into Kurokawa's head right now.

I'm back. So some people have already brought up the fact that women are expected to look pretty in the workforce, so the school (which is the institution that is tasked with converting children into human resources) giving the girls shit for just learning to conform to the very rules society has set for them is all sorts of irritating. I don't know how much this happens in real life in general, probably pretty common, but I do know that the school I went to also policed our appearance. (Catholic school for 12 years. Don't try this at home, kids.)

I'd like to raise some more points in defense of the teacher slapping plot point. Wall of text warning.

First, Fujishiro is the weaker party compared to the teacher, and she was retaliating against a verbal attack on her friend from the teacher. While it's true that normally it's best to use words to solve conflicts, I'm not going to entertain the idea that standing up against a bully or harasser through physical means is wrong. I can't stand this "both sides made mistakes" kind of wishy-washy crap. The teacher is responsible for the consequences of his harassment.

Perhaps the main reason Fujishiro fucked up is that her actions didn't lead to removing the teacher from the position of power- though people get away with much worse things all the time. (The teacher might deserve a second change, but the first priority should be the safety of the students.) I can blame Fujishiro for giving into her rage, but since she probably wasn't educated on strategies to deal with a renegade teacher, I can't fault her for not knowing them (incidentally, I never received such advice at school either).

I think the scene makes a better point this way as a symbolic "callout" to all the people who would harass women for their looks. Some anvils have to be dropped (I just referenced TVTropes, this is embarrassing). On a similarline of thought, from the perspective of being true to character, Fujishiro is an impulsive, short tempered, borderline delinquent gyaru. She has never been one to play nice. I hope she'll learn to deal with her emotions better, but at this point in the story, she's just not there yet, so it would be weirder if she didn't lose her shit this time.

Next point is Fujishiro's punishment. Some of you might say that she got off too easy. But is that really true? And should the question be about what Fujishiro deserves, instead of how to best address her anger issues? Fujishiro should have been directed to sit down with a professional, strongly encouraged to join a club, and maybe get something like extra cleaning duty for a month. Something that at once serves as a deterrent, but also doesn't ignore Fujishiro's needs as a human being and a student.

One week suspension isn't really a big deal, but it also doesn't exactly address any of the problems that lead Fujishiro to this action. It just ignores the problem more than anything. But this is exactly the kind of move I'd expect from a school where pestering students for their looks for no good reason is standard practice, and abusive teachers are tolerated on the faculty. If anything, it's pretty clear that Fujishiro only got such a short suspension because the rotten teacher wanted to avoid getting into a scandal, and the shitty faculty indulged him because a scandal would make them look bad, too.

To gauge the relative severity of Fujishiro's reaction, we can look at a similar trope to this altercation. Everyone knows this scene: Jack and Jane go to a bar. Jane is accosted by a random drunk, Jack steps up to defend Jane. The drunk continues to mouth off, and so Jack punches him in the face. I think we can all see that compared to that trope, Fujishiro went easy on the teacher. We know that he got off with a small bruise - since Fujishiro merely smacked him with her bag. Now that is still a physical attack, but I'm guessing it is less likely to result in serious head trauma or break any bones than a fist in the face.

I'd add that in that trope Jack never faces consequences - and perhaps he shouldn't, if the drunk was a genuine threat, but it does seem like as long as you look good doing it, people are less likely to criticize you for punching people.

I agree with this very much.
Most of the people (even if real life) look at only the quantifiable actions of any situation with no regard to the qualitative factor to make judgement. Verbal abuses are always overlooked, its an nonpunishable crime, but it can drastically affect individuals which can cause repercussions, and only afterwards do people make notice of it. There is no scale to measure morality in such cases.

Fujishiro didn't bag the teacher because he bad-mouthed them, but because his statement deeply impacted Kurokawa, disregarding all her efforts, causing her to cry. That's what sets off Fujishiro. Severity of verbal abuse ranges based on individual mindset or even how the abuse is worded. There isn't a clear defined right or wrong in these situations, only consequences of the moment.