If you're in heat and you don't know it clap your hands

round 2

idk why yall criticize this and 1x1/2 when the majorty of anime for guys has pedophilia inclinations

shows like death march almost made me throw up

last edited at May 23, 2018 1:16PM by

There are undoubtedly going to be moral problems with the couple this author is going for.

As many of you have voiced out, we know it is morally wrong to pursue a relationship with a huge age gap and to take advantage of a reasonably very young girl who doesn't even know what sex is. This is just a situational context that the author has chosen to bring out certain feelings of the reader. We're too overly concerned about the rape (yes we know how wrong it is) and try to look at what the mangaka is trying to make us feel, which is the undeniable attraction between Jinno and Kousaka, the forbiddeness of their relationship and how are they crossing the barriers to have their romantic relationship blossom and work out for each other.

Afterwall, a work is meant to be experienced, I guess? You can love the progress of them getting together and overcoming those age barriers and morality wrongness, but yet, you can choose to not support the idea at the same time.

last edited at May 23, 2018 2:41PM

Afterwall, a work is meant to be experienced

I do believe this is Donald Trump’s running platform.

last edited at May 23, 2018 3:26PM

auikimaya posted:

It's only okay when Murciélago portrays similar themes, gals. Move on, nothing to see other than forced moral talk over here.

Nobody is saying Murcielago is ok in portrarying sexual violence. In fact, pretty much every action in that manga can be summed up with "This is extremely fucked up, we know".

Here tho, we have an adult woman grooming and raping a young girl, too young and too naive to even give consent, and the artist seems to be trying to portray it with romantic undertones. Like this is supposed to be something to support. And no

Wait wait wait, so the author was supposed to draw the adult woman with an evil smile, horns and stuff like that? like "HEY THIS IS THE BAD PERSON HERE! DON'T DO THIS IS BAAAD" and the girl with tears and scratches? like, there's sex with flowers and sugar and then there's demonic sex and the author is in obligation to demonstrate the difference every time, because this isn't a manga story, is sex education, a psychological example of a bad encounter? well no... Why can't you just use the same excuse of Murcielago and accept this for what it is? do you avoid every violence action or sexual behavior en manga/anime? you want every story to be about good people having a good time? sorry for all the questions, my point is, this is a story, it doesn't have to be black or white, it doesn't have to suit your sense of morals or your tastes at all, is just telling certain event, whatever the characters feel is not for us to decide and if they end up together is not the author saying "Yeah I support rape" she/he just wanted to tell a story.

Rape is bad? Of course, I think I speak for everyone here when I say that.
Rape is bad therefore there shouldn't be any stories portraying such action? Well, no.

Seriously, I think if any of the people complaining had to make the chapter 3 it would be "Hello, police? yeah I want to report something ... [The End]"

PS: If you want to know the ending just look for the raws somewhere else and keep it to yourself geez

People are upset that rape is being used in such a casual manner. A 30yr old woman had unconsenting sex with a 13yr old girl. and the story is treating it as if it's just the woman's way of helping the girl grow up. That's a little hard to accept. It doesn't help that Jinno-san is acting like a traumatized rape victom. I think that this is meant to be a coming of age love story, but it's hard to take it that way.
I'm not as offended as some readers, but I see where they are coming from. Alot of manga treat rape too casually. Sometimes I get the idea that the japanese think rape is no big deal.

There are undoubtedly going to be moral problems with the couple this author is going for.

As many of you have voiced out, we know it is morally wrong to pursue a relationship with a huge age gap and to take advantage of a reasonably very young girl who doesn't even know what sex is. This is just a situational context that the author has chosen to bring out certain feelings of the reader. We're too overly concerned about the rape (yes we know how wrong it is) and try to look at what the mangaka is trying to make us feel, which is the undeniable attraction between Jinno and Kousaka, the forbiddeness of their relationship and how are they crossing the barriers to have their romantic relationship blossom and work out for each other.

Afterwall, a work is meant to be experienced, I guess? You can love the progress of them getting together and overcoming those age barriers and morality wrongness, but yet, you can choose to not support the idea at the same time.

I could get behind the whole "forbidden love" thing. But, did Kousaka-san, and Jinno-san's first time have to be a blatant rape scene? And, did Jinno -san have to act like a rape victom afterwards? It's hard to sigh at a forbidden love realised, when all you can do is think "I should call the special victoms unit"

That Natsume is legally guilty of statutory rape is indisputable. She also majorly dropped the ball as the adult in the situation, as self-restraint was very much her responsibility.
But if she's guilty of rape in the more general sense is a whole lot less clear-cut and I strongly suspect that's entirely intentional on the author's part - challenging the reader to make up their mind about it and provide their own reasoning.

Though when you think about it making that distinction is, narratively speaking, ultimately Maki's prerogative once she sorts out her feelings on the matter.

auikimaya posted:

It's only okay when Murciélago portrays similar themes, gals. Move on, nothing to see other than forced moral talk over here.

Nobody is saying Murcielago is ok in portrarying sexual violence. In fact, pretty much every action in that manga can be summed up with "This is extremely fucked up, we know".

Here tho, we have an adult woman grooming and raping a young girl, too young and too naive to even give consent, and the artist seems to be trying to portray it with romantic undertones. Like this is supposed to be something to support. And no

Wait wait wait, so the author was supposed to draw the adult woman with an evil smile, horns and stuff like that? like "HEY THIS IS THE BAD PERSON HERE! DON'T DO THIS IS BAAAD" and the girl with tears and scratches? like, there's sex with flowers and sugar and then there's demonic sex and the author is in obligation to demonstrate the difference every time, because this isn't a manga story, is sex education, a psychological example of a bad encounter? well no... Why can't you just use the same excuse of Murcielago and accept this for what it is? do you avoid every violence action or sexual behavior en manga/anime? you want every story to be about good people having a good time? sorry for all the questions, my point is, this is a story, it doesn't have to be black or white, it doesn't have to suit your sense of morals or your tastes at all, is just telling certain event, whatever the characters feel is not for us to decide and if they end up together is not the author saying "Yeah I support rape" she/he just wanted to tell a story.

Rape is bad? Of course, I think I speak for everyone here when I say that.
Rape is bad therefore there shouldn't be any stories portraying such action? Well, no.

Seriously, I think if any of the people complaining had to make the chapter 3 it would be "Hello, police? yeah I want to report something ... [The End]"

PS: If you want to know the ending just look for the raws somewhere else and keep it to yourself geez

Oh right! I forgot we live in a fucking cultural vacuum and positive portrayals of rape doesn't have terrible negative repercussions, like fucking normalizing rape culture and the romanticizing of abusive relationships! How fucking dare I to complain to the fact that this mangaka is showing a grown up woman raping a young girl and then playing it for romance! I must be a fucking idiot!

Portray rape, sure, but do it being aware of its connotations. If your rape scene doesn't contribute to anything and the result of it could be achieved by other means, then your rape scene is not necessary. If you are going to make a rape scene, then fucking acknowledge it, don't play it like some romantic drama because then you get people like me or the people in this comments who refuse to accept these kind of portrayals of a vile act.

Excuse me for fucking despising something you enjoy. You have the right to enjoy it, we have the right to not to

auikimaya posted:

Oh right! I forgot we live in a fucking cultural vacuum and positive portrayals of rape doesn't have terrible negative repercussions, like fucking normalizing rape culture and the romanticizing of abusive relationships!

It doesn't. If you weren't likely to rape someone before, after reading it, you won't suddenly start raping young girls. You're supposed to tell fiction from reality.

Then again, if it is true. You are better off making crusade against 50th Shades of Grey, which romanticize abusive relationship and is read by millions of people world wide thinking it is legit romance story. Not some niche yuri manga, that probably doesn't sell that well.

how the fuck is this normalizing rape culture wtf.

I'm not sure where you guys are getting the idea that this series portrays rape as "okay". Maki in this chapter is not acting as someone who is okay… and neither is Kousaka for that matter.

I see you're taking this fictional story too hard and misunderstanding a lot about me so I don't see a point of replying to that, but yeah, I Want to see how this story ends, so I'll keep reading.

? Who are you answering to?

Auikimaya who replied me up there, I just don't want to drag that conversation any longer

auikimaya posted:

Oh right! I forgot we live in a fucking cultural vacuum and positive portrayals of rape doesn't have terrible negative repercussions, like fucking normalizing rape culture and the romanticizing of abusive relationships!

It doesn't. If you weren't likely to rape someone before, after reading it, you won't suddenly start raping young girls. You're supposed to tell fiction from reality.

Then again, if it is true. You are better off making crusade against 50th Shades of Grey, which romanticize abusive relationship and is read by millions of people world wide thinking it is legit romance story. Not some niche yuri manga, that probably doesn't sell that well.

I want to go after 50 Shades of Gray, just on bad writing alone. CURSE YOU TWILIGHT!!!

Then again, if it is true. You are better off making crusade against 50th Shades of Grey, which romanticize abusive relationship and is read by millions of people world wide thinking it is legit romance story. Not some niche yuri manga, that probably doesn't sell that well.

Let's not get hasty, we should go through them in chronological order starting with A Streetcar Named Desire

Oh no...

Portraying rape/pedophelia/child abuse is of course not a problem, but romantisizing them? That's a line that mustnot be crossed.

I don't think being a story can give it a pass. This story is very realistic, everything about it is so, then if the author just go and make them a couple... Jikes.

Other works being shitty, doesnt mean this is not, well, the same (if Jinno and Kousaka do end up together in that fluffy happily ever after way). Ppl are allowed to criticize what they've read, however niche. Sidenote, I mean yea it's a "niche yuri", but we've already got over hundred views on it.

Anw, I still hope the author doesnt avoid the problem and make this some mindless exploitation. Everything it needs is a reasonable ending. Welp, looks like Jinno won't open up to anyone except Kousaka now though.

Looking back at the first comments is interesting, seeing how fresh faced and busy tailed we were, until...things took a turn.

I read your comments and yeah I'm taking this seriously. I'm sorry guys if I ruin your enjoyment of it or whatever, but yeah I'll continue to take seriously every time a toxic relationship is portrayed in positive terms, because that's way to normalized in mainstream culture and it has too stop. But I can see it would serve no other purpose to continue this conversation here, so I excuse myself for taking this fictional work "a bit too seriously" as some said

Again, how is the portrayed "positively", when the main character is obviously distressed and confused?

In many ways this is an ancient debate (like Plato vs. Aristotle-type "ancient") that we're unlikely to resolve here. One major problem is that while "depiction" does not always equal "advocacy," sometimes depiction does constitute advocacy, and it's not always easy (barring some unusual statement of authorial intent) to determine which is which.

But while it's easy, and perhaps reasonable, to say that "this line must not be crossed" or "this must stop," what does that actually look like in action? Petitioning for the story be removed from the site? Refuting every post that sees anything positive in the story?

I guess my only point is that the relationship between fictional representation and real-life social behavior is one of the oldest and most hotly debated issues in human culture, and the many different viewpoints on that issue all have well-established arguments and authoritative advocates for their side.

'And a special acknowledgment to the author of Niven's Law: "There is a technical, literary term for those who mistake the opinions and beliefs of characters in a novel for those of the author. The term is 'idiot'."'
- S.M. Stirling, quoted on Wikipedia

I regret reading this (before bed, at that) but at the same time, I feel compelled to see how it ends. I feel really bad for the MC. She's too young for this. She deserves better.

ARGHHHHHHH NOW I'M STARTING TO SYNC WITH THE MC. THE URGE... TOO MUCH... UGHHHHHHH.
I NEED THE NEXT CHAPTER ARGHHH

So many people in this forum get way too riled up way too easily. If you don't like it then don't read it.

(Oh and the idea that people at 17.999 years old can't consent and then suddenly once you're 18 you can consent and do literally anything is utter stupidity. "Able to consent" is a spectrum that's different for every person. Some people shouldn't be consenting even at 20 years old.)

last edited at May 29, 2018 6:54AM