Forum › Kimi wa Shoujo discussion

Qy1n9jd3ivu
joined Dec 23, 2018

HayaH posted:

Not sure it could be called a rape.

Well your opinion is irrelevant. People will tell you it was statutory rape and that is all that matters. You can't have adult having sex with someone below 18 without them raping them in the process. Welcome to real world.

OK, after checking those definitions you are right.
We (using plurality for personal pronounce) tried to understand what was happening here.
It's not like giving an approval, what we said, just some opinion (without entering in reality of the world, observing only manga as work of fantasy, and this one particularly).
Of course in reality things like this should not happen.

The strange thing about sexuality is, it "allows" fantasies which many people would never dare to realize, ever.
The subject is very sensitive, because, how much "guilty" is someone, by "wishful thinking"?
Is it same like wishing to murder someone? In that case, you did not commit a murder, but you actually wanted to kill someone for some reason.
In sexual fantasies, people do the same. We are trying to understand it, why it's happening?
Does it make someone "guilty" without guilt?
If someone have ideas or answers, it would be nice to hear, and understand.

Qy1n9jd3ivu
joined Dec 23, 2018

HayaH posted:

Girl did not know what lesbian sex was. When she discovered it was sex between two women what happened to her, she felt more immature than before. It bothered her more than having sex, when she realizes it was sex between two females (girl and woman).

Not sure it could be called a rape. There's something like response, a sudden decision to answer to a girl who is asking for becoming an adult. It did not look like a rape. Rape does not look like it was here, in manga. It is probably closer to 'being tricked" into sex, than raped.

The only shocking thing is age gap between 14 and 30 (what would not be shocking if it was 18 and 34 years old, 20 and 36, etc.)

And, why should a girl who is "raped", desire having sex again with the same person, after "being raped"?

Before thinking if it is rape or not, try imagining yourself arguing in the court with your argument... Just go back to the first chapters, she clearly doesn't know about sex and wasn't interested in having sex... She clearly says she doesn't know what's going, ask to let her go and that she wants to go home, what was the response of the woman? "Fuck that, I'm horny"... Also, no, rape isn't a gamble "Let's try forcing random teenagers into sex, if they like it, then It's fine!" that's not how it works.

Ok, we understand now what is about from point of reality. We already commented that we observed manga just as point of fiction, and "artistic freedom" to create the story.

What we see, there is few types of readers, those who are objective (watching from aside on the stories), and those who are subjective, inclined more to identify with characters and connect work with reality.

Personally, we are more objective readers (call it voyeur level, if you wish), rarely identifying with characters or stories. There is one exception, which made us feel "identified", and it was only Cho-ul, from Pet's Aesthetic. And it was again, same as our description of types of readers (our impression was that Cho-ul does not enjoy things on physical levels, getting more excitement from sensuality, enjoying her lover visually, tasting her, and hearing her, than she enjoyed it receiving physical pleasure. Simply, thing is deeper than dom -sub explanation, entering in abstract levels of sexuality, not only physical).

We observed manga as work of fantasy, which we explained in comment above. And not approving it in reality.
it's same comparing to watching porn, and having fantasies. There are people who can be turned on, simply on ideas, even bad ideas, not acting upon it in reality, ever. This manga reminds us on it, somehow. It's like author imagined what could be if it was like in manga...
And even if manga has some autobiographic backgrounds founded on reality, no one can surely say is it a point of view of a girl, or of a woman (personally, we would say it's from a point of view a girl).

Actually, we are amazed with reactions of many readers, and we are trying to understand that border line, when someone gets it "too realistic" than it really is. It's just our personal opinion, and we asked a many questions in our previous comment (not quoted one here, there is another one...).

Sorry if our comment was taken as defending a rapist, or supporting sex with minors. It's not.

We just don't understand that physical aspect of sex clearly. Including potential crimes.

Edit: To add, from manga can be concluded that girl knew about sex, but not lesbian sex (she is saying something like "occasionally she moved in-out" and then she checked about nude women in embrace, and realizes it was sex. So she was initiated with "in-out" as a vague idea what it might be, still having no name for it. It would be impossible that she did not know anything about sex, before.
As we said, even if author created manga from autobiography, from POV of girl, she is not clearly presenting herself as a victim, and she is trying to "defend" the older woman, not taking so harshly as readers.
We sense something like it, from manga. But it's only our personal perception, without intentions to enter further in possibilities of reality and laws, and mix it with a story as it is...

last edited at Dec 27, 2018 2:04AM

Utenaanthy01
joined Aug 4, 2018

You can't have adult having sex with someone below 18 without them raping them in the process. Welcome to real world.

Strictly speaking the actual age limit varies by legislation and often has all manner of caveats tacked on.

Yep. Look at North America and you'll see that age of consent is 16 in Canada and most of USA, and between 12 and 14 in Mexico (changes with the state). Aamof, many states in USA have special provisions that make it legal to have sex at 12 or 13 according to the situation. And, of course, we know what the age of consent in Japan is, right? The idea that sex below 18 must be outlawed is waaay minoritary in the real world.

Qy1n9jd3ivu
joined Dec 23, 2018

You can't have adult having sex with someone below 18 without them raping them in the process. Welcome to real world.

Strictly speaking the actual age limit varies by legislation and often has all manner of caveats tacked on.

Yep. Look at North America and you'll see that age of consent is 16 in Canada and most of USA, and between 12 and 14 in Mexico (changes with the state). Aamof, many states in USA have special provisions that make it legal to have sex at 12 or 13 according to the situation. And, of course, we know what the age of consent in Japan is, right? The idea that sex below 18 must be outlawed is waaay minoritary in the real world.

This explains a lot. Thank you for clearing. Our girlfriend was 17 yo when our body was 25. Now our conscience is clear. :)

last edited at Jan 1, 2019 1:45AM

joined Feb 8, 2016

what a heartless piece of shit person. and yes, she sullied Jinno at a young impressionable age. One cannot justify her actions by any means.

joined Feb 8, 2016

Even foregoing the age of consent argument, the woman took advantage of a confused young person then dumped her like yesterday's garbage. where is the justification for that behavior? Those of you who are only arguing that Jinno was old enough to have sex, seem to imply its Jinno's fault she was mistreated. Typical blame the victim mentality. I am a long time yuri fan and have even been known to like the occasional age gap story, BUT only if its dealt with responsibly, such as Dear My Teacher, where the student and high school nurse agree to wait until high school graduation for the student to confess.
Just because a certain country or State has an age limit for sex, that is not the only factor people should look at when considering whether to have sexual relations with a minor. And many U.S. state laws can consider sex with someone under 18, but at the age of consent, rape "if the consent is received by the child by deemed seduction or deceit." And if anyone dares argue that it was a "spur of the moment, lustful occurance" should recall that this is exactly what many rapist claim.
I am not necessarily for censorship, but readers should be responsible in what they allow children to read and there is an age of which this type of scenario should never be written of.

schuyguy Uploader
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Yuri Project
joined Jul 14, 2016

I think Kousaka made the right decision to move away. After what she'd done, eliminating all contact was the most responsible course of action. However, I don't think we can judge her too harshly. When Jinno was a child, her judgment was that of a child. But now she's an adult (23 probably, assuming she moved to Tokyo for university), and this is how she views what happened:

I felt happiness in loving earnestly, and pleasure in being loved earnestly. When it all came to an end, I felt sadness. I felt anger. I felt hatred. And I felt pain. But now all that remains are good memories.

I've known people who pursued relationships with adults when they were 14. Now that they're adults, I can hardly tell them they were victims of sexual assault if they don't feel that way. You cannot trust a child's judgement in these matters, that's the whole reason for age of consent laws: children are not equipped to make these decisions. But adults are capable of making their own decisions, and it's never a good idea to try and tell someone else how they're supposed to feel. Clearly Kousaka was in the wrong at the time. She seduced a child. However, just like I respect a friend's opinion of something that happened to them, a reader should respect Jinno's opinion of what happened to her.

However, that's all just diegetic analysis, when perhaps the more important question is about the author. What is the author's purpose in telling this story? I dismiss out of hand any argument that this is a subject that cannot or should not be made into stories—after all, it's something that happens in real life, and thus is a fit subject for analysis, and thus a fit subject for art. But what about this particular example? This isn't really the story of a predatory adult taking advantage of a child. It's the story of a girl's sexual awakening. I think it's obvious from the structure that the author was focusing on the latter. For one thing, the story is entirely from her perspective, and the ending frames the work as the musings of an adult looking back on a formative incident in her childhood. For another, it's meant to be sexually arousing. The sex scenes are drawn very sensually, and in great detail. Also throughout, there's a major emphasis on the differences between children and adults, both in the Jinna's yearning to be an adult, and in Kousaka's obsession with girlish innocence.

In fact, what I find most curious about this work is that the author never even addresses the fact that this is a story of an adult seducing a child. The ethics or legality of Kousaka's actions are never mentioned. I'm not really sure what to make of that. It's like the author didn't even realize that this would be an issue that readers would think about while reading this work. In the end, my only conclusion is that this is not a serious piece of art. It's a semi-pornographic work in a medium known for its endless supply of mindless pulp. I don't think the author is a criminal, or a pedophile. They're just careless.

last edited at Aug 27, 2019 11:37PM

Img_20180111_180550
joined May 1, 2018

Holy f###ing sh#t that was literally rape

Img_20180111_180550
joined May 1, 2018

Holy f###ing sh#t that was literally rape

Wtf I finished it and that literally was goddamn rape and abuse holy sh#t. And when the girl was like "yo I regret all that happening, felt like i was being sullied" the woman is like "lmao nahhhh nahhh NAHHHHHH" liKE BRUH WHAT

joined Jul 23, 2017

I got confused by the adult jinno san and the old one, beautiful story but kinda weird and whats with the ending anyway

joined Sep 19, 2019

I actually rather enjoyed this story, it shone a big spotlight on just how fucked up age gap romance stories involving a school kid and adult(usually a teacher, which makes it even worse) really are.
Most of these type of school kid/adult age gap stories tend to fall on the more light hearted/comedic side in order to avoid the uncomfortable implications of them, but once you start reading ones like this you begin to see things unravel.

I'm not shitting on these type of age gap stories btw, I read and enjoy them as much as the next person, but I always try to keep in mind that they're not something to be emulated.

Capture
joined Mar 12, 2014

This is the worst. Glorified pedophilia. The worst. But I'm a terrible shitty human bean so....

Capture
joined Mar 12, 2014

How the predator woman is all like "welp i've got no sex in 4 years, no adult lespies here and this 14 years old is half-naked" as an excuse to screwed a 14 years old is just...

Imagine if the character is male. Yep.

I have a huge bias. I hate myself.

Why

Ao3
joined Apr 23, 2019

Going thru the biting tag and this gem is here, anyone with a biting kink has to appreciate this doujinshi.

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