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Aaaaaand after the light-speed jump of the Mei-Yuzu breakup we’re back to our usual narrative pace of taking most of a chapter to get guests from the train station into the front door of Yuzu’s house. At least it’s familiar—I thought we were going to be stuck at that @#$% festival for the rest of eternity.
The chapter was yawn-inducing. The only thing I liked was the "revelation" that Mei is not allowed to have free will. But we already knew that, and if Yuzu didn't, she is a moron.
Not really. Yuzu believed Mei’s resolve to inherit the school superior to her love for her. She always puts Mei on a pedestal and saw her as a strong individual focused on her goal. The reader knows Mei is weak but the reader saw what Yuzu didn’t (Mei crying in chapter 35, Mei distraught in chapter 32, Mei hesitation in volume 4 with Sara). And Yuzu always believed that her love for Mei was stronger than Mei’s one. She almost said that her time with Mei was counted in volume 5 cause of Mei’s brillant future awaiting her. She had to treasure it.
At this point the reader knows much more about Mei than Yuzu, same with Yuzu since it’s her PoV, but it is not always the case. So it is easy to blame the characters when they have less informations than the reader and does mistakes or misinterpret things cause well they don’t have the big picture when we have a larger one thanks to the external focus the author uses.
last edited at May 20, 2018 10:38PM
Citrus chapter 38 will be posted here by tonight
@AozTkM
I don't have a great knowledge, probably less than some posters here. But, I am surprised how some readers here misread Yuzu's character since she has a very serious way to name her love for Mei. When she said I love you to Mei, she used "Suki Da yo" in chapters 16 and 33. The romantic way to express love between two lovers.
In chapter 36, the Japanese title has 愛してる, Ai shiteru. Here, it's serious business, you never say that except when you're very seriously involved and picture yourself in a kind of love that is forever.
So, Yuzu's Japanese way to express her love increases in seriousness, it's not a teenage crush in the wording.
Mei never uses suki, she's abstract in her letter, she uses omoi ("my feeling for you" but Mei always uses a deflected way to express things, she's not direct), the noun to talk about the feeling but never explicitly talk about the feeling of love directed toward Yuzu. "I was allowed to honestly love you" she just uses a word about honest feelings, feeling honestly (without restraint).
Interesting, she mentions the way she thought she was allowed ... the same word than in chapter 38 when Sara talks about it ("i am not allowed to ask anything", so what can be seen as a redundant conversation points toward something in Mei's mind). The sentence " I fell for you to a point in no return" has でいっぱい. Here again, the love word isn't here, it's more "to be full of someone".
In fact, the author is very subtle and the wording she uses for each character is very enlightening and show a real degree of mastery. Much more than people here give her account. She has a bigger picture in her writing than we can think. She also uses many echoes, some words resonate from one chapter to another one separated sometimes by a volume. And indeed, characters' complexity is lost in translation.
Talking about context, you are right. In fact, there is a great number of speeches, in the manga, that can have different interpretations.
Last but not least, let's take the grandfather's words in volume 1.
Japanese: それから芽衣お前もしばらくの間は自分の意思で行動しなさい
(You can do as you please/forget about me for a short while, for some time)
English translation by Yuri Project: You should do what you want to do and not worry about me"
Official one: it's time for you and you alone to decide how to live your life
But しばらくの間 means for a short while. That's why the author left a note saying reading in retrospect the manga allowed to see new things. I don't think it was just an awkward way to explain things people missed because Japanese perfectly understood the "for a short time" implication of the grandfather's words.
And here, many readers just thought the grandfather forgot about his promise when he never said to Mei she could do what she wanted forever. And Mei knew about that ... so it can shade a new light on some previous volumes. How a simple word ("for a short time"), forgotten cause it seemed, some years ago, a detail, is important with what happened in volume 9.
To conclude, I think the manga is subtler than we can say without of course making it a masterpiece in the writing and the plot department, there are flaws.
But, it's clear, as good as translations are, this subtlety is lost because, as you said, there are so many different ways to express something in Japanese for which English has only one or two words.
It's always interesting to try to have the original meaning in mind and dig a little to see beyond appearance.
@sadhomu82 : in the chapter, the team translated Sara's sentence about a "citrus event". She uses ゅずぽっちのイべントに当たって so it's related to Yuzubocchi's event. (ゅずぽっち). I guess the correction was made.
last edited at May 21, 2018 9:06AM
Anyone else get more and more pissed off at the father each chapter for dropping all the responsibility in Mei's lap?
@sadhomu82 : in the chapter, the team translated Sara's sentence about a "citrus event". She uses ゅずぽっちのイべントに当たって so it's related to Yuzubocchi's event. (ゅずぽっち). I guess the correction was made.
the chapter is posted and the change has been made ;)
@sadhomu82 : in the chapter, the team translated Sara's sentence about a "citrus event". She uses ゅずぽっちのイべントに当たって so it's related to Yuzubocchi's event. (ゅずぽっち). I guess the correction was made.
the chapter is posted and the change has been made ;)
I saw that. Thank you for your hard work as always. ;)
It's cool to see real and supported compliment towards Citrus writings and story in general, in opposition to the constant nagging and "omg this is so stupid Imma drop it".
A transitional chapter it would seem, but as usual there's more to learn from it if you know how to look into it. I'd still love to see how Yuzu reacted directly after learning the news but I don't know... I'm glad to see that they're should be at least one more volume if the end game is after that. Crossing my fingers for two more!
And thank you Chaosteam <3
edit Oh dear, forgot to mention that the mother is entering the game and that's fucking wonderful! We'll get to see more of her and she might be a big help.
last edited at May 21, 2018 10:54AM
It seems like Yuzu is making her move now.
I didn't expect so much drama from this manga but I think it's fine, but mostly because I don't see this story possibly ending badly.
Anyone else get more and more pissed off at the father each chapter for dropping all the responsibility in Mei's lap?
No, since she chose to take the responsibility entirely on her own despite the attempted retcon.
Anyone else get more and more pissed off at the father each chapter for dropping all the responsibility in Mei's lap?
Judging by the previous discussion on Shou in this thread, quite a few people, I would imagine. Myself included.
She gonna tell momma about it, and momma is gonna say go for it gurl
Two sisters in love with each other
One of them is getting married
I've heard that Yuzu and Mei will have a happy end, but please for the love of Madokami don't let it be a Happy End.
No chance ... the Happy end is paved. Author's words, Yuri Hime flagship series yadda yadda yadda ... ;)
Edit: well, this answer debunks itself since I hadn't the reference.
Indeed, it won't be like "Happy End", I think many hints point toward a really good ending, it has been talked above.
last edited at May 21, 2018 12:24PM
No chance ... the Happy end is paved. Author's words, Yuri Hime flagship series yadda yadda yadda ... ;)
I think the capitalized Happy End was a reference to:
https://dynasty-scans.com/series/happy_end
Which surely earns its Bad End tag.
OHHHHH SHIIIIT IS SHE GOING TO TELL HER MOM ABOUT HER RELATIONSHIP WITH MEI OHHH MAN CANT WAIT FOR NEW CHAPTER
Yuzu is coming out to her mom! #20gayteen
I wish in the next chapter it will be Mei's whole chapter or better Yuzu/Mei chapter, it's a long wait but it's worth it.
No chance ... the Happy end is paved. Author's words, Yuri Hime flagship series yadda yadda yadda ... ;)
I think the capitalized Happy End was a reference to:
https://dynasty-scans.com/series/happy_end
Which surely earns its
Bad Endtag.
Ah my bad. didn't catch that. Thank you for the reference. What a terrible ending ... I understand the tag. Traumatizing.
last edited at May 21, 2018 12:22PM
What are the chances next time they see each other Mei will be pregnant?
@AozTkM
I don't have a great knowledge, probably less than some posters here. But, I am surprised how some readers here misread Yuzu's character since she has a very serious way to name her love for Mei. When she said I love you to Mei, she used "Suki Da yo" in chapters 16 and 33. The romantic way to express love between two lovers.
In chapter 36, the Japanese title has 愛してる, Ai shiteru. Here, it's serious business, you never say that except when you're very seriously involved and picture yourself in a kind of love that is forever.
So, Yuzu's Japanese way to express her love increases in seriousness, it's not a teenage crush in the wording.
Mei never uses suki, she's abstract in her letter, she uses omoi ("my feeling for you" but Mei always uses a deflected way to express things, she's not direct), the noun to talk about the feeling but never explicitly talk about the feeling of love directed toward Yuzu. "I was allowed to honestly love you" she just uses a word about honest feelings, feeling honestly (without restraint).
Interesting, she mentions the way she thought she was allowed ... the same word than in chapter 38 when Sara talks about it ("i am not allowed to ask anything", so what can be seen as a redundant conversation points toward something in Mei's mind). The sentence " I fell for you to a point in no return" has でいっぱい. Here again, the love word isn't here, it's more "to be full of someone".
In fact, the author is very subtle and the wording she uses for each character is very enlightening and show a real degree of mastery. Much more than people here give her account. She has a bigger picture in her writing than we can think. She also uses many echoes, some words resonate from one chapter to another one separated sometimes by a volume. And indeed, characters' complexity is lost in translation.
Talking about context, you are right. In fact, there is a great number of speeches, in the manga, that can have different interpretations.
Last but not least, let's take the grandfather's words in volume 1.
Japanese: それから芽衣お前もしばらくの間は自分の意思で行動しなさい
(You can do as you please/forget about me for a short while, for some time)
English translation by Yuri Project: You should do what you want to do and not worry about me"
Official one: it's time for you and you alone to decide how to live your lifeBut しばらくの間 means for a short while. That's why the author left a note saying reading in retrospect the manga allowed to see new things. I don't think it was just an awkward way to explain things people missed because Japanese perfectly understood the "for a short time" implication of the grandfather's words.
And here, many readers just thought the grandfather forgot about his promise when he never said to Mei she could do what she wanted forever. And Mei knew about that ... so it can shade a new light on some previous volumes. How a simple word ("for a short time"), forgotten cause it seemed, some years ago, a detail, is important with what happened in volume 9.
To conclude, I think the manga is subtler than we can say without of course making it a masterpiece in the writing and the plot department, there are flaws.
But, it's clear, as good as translations are, this subtlety is lost because, as you said, there are so many different ways to express something in Japanese for which English has only one or two words.
It's always interesting to try to have the original meaning in mind and dig a little to see beyond appearance.
@sadhomu82 : in the chapter, the team translated Sara's sentence about a "citrus event". She uses ゅずぽっちのイべントに当たって so it's related to Yuzubocchi's event. (ゅずぽっち). I guess the correction was made.
I read every single word, absolutely brilliant,it does sheds light on aspects, I personally hadn't quite grasped and makes me rethink about the whole thing in a whole new light, oh how I wish I could properly read Japanese, but this comment, is so good, thank you random Internet person!!!
What are the chances next time they see each other Mei will be pregnant?
Zero. I don't even know why some readers are expecting het in Citrus. This arc needs to end already.
@Bolsilludo
Zero ... Even if the arrangement isn't stopped before Mei changes her mind in front of the aisle or Yuzu crashes the wedding (i really don't believe the author will use these plot devices, just joking), there are no chances that Udagawa is dating Mei before the wedding.
The fiancés don't date before an arranged marriage (Himeko doesn't date her fiancé either) so ... And there won't be het in Yuri Hime. At this pace, I wonder if we'll see Mei before the final chapter of this volume.
Haha, I so disagree; there are plenty of "bigger"/denser/multi-syllabic (beautiful, IMO) words many people are unfamiliar with (or simply scorn) that don't fare well as typical, casual dialogue--especially for 16yo students. Context is everything!
Indeed, I wanted to pinpoint something different and in fact, this sentence just came wrong. I should have erased it. More something like English translation sometimes simplifies Japanese when you have a large panel of English words to maintain the original text's deepness. But yeah, context, teenagers characters ... not easy.
Another thing about the dub/translation.
Here: https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/citrus_ch08#11
The translation talks about "boobs" but in fact, there is double-meaning, almost a pun from Harumi. The word 乳 ("chichi") refers to breasts (milk) but it can also be written with ちち meaning "chichi", the breasts but also the word father.
When Harumi asks Yuzu if she's worried about "chichi", breasts, Yuzu answer "yes but not quite", she was thinking about "chichi" as Mei's father.
This scene is totally out of the blue (probably some people thought Saburouta was drunk) if the double meaning of the word is unknown. Funny, the English dub doesn't do the link, but the French one makes the pun. ("Paire" = pair "père" = father). Probably cause the joke was hard to do in English while trying to maintain a fluent translation.
last edited at May 21, 2018 1:12PM