I still don't get the hate towards Mei

There’s a hell of a lot of difference between hating the character and disliking what the author has done with her characterization.

Most of the people posting here liked Mei—for me she was by far the most interesting character, partly because she was the most volatile. She was the one who could rock the sociopath-era Matsuri back on her heels, and who could keep Yuzu guessing (perhaps inadvertently) about where their relationship was going.

The near-catatonic shrinking violet we’ve been seeing these days is . . . far less interesting.

Does anyone here have experience dealing with manga editors? Wonder if this is an example of editor interference. I am looking for explanations because it literally feels like the character was totally changed after her absence from ch 36 to 41.

In fact, Saburouta confirmed she had a hard time to build Mei's character and needed her editor's help when she stated many times that Yuzu was easy for her, cause she was like Yuzu, personality wise and also Matsuri cause she loved writing mischievous characters. She shines with these personalities and struggles with characters like Mei, it is a fact that she acknowledge.

Concerning the editor's meddling, it is almost acquired there was something that bothered her and made her quickly end citrus. She recognized she had a burn out (her last words at the end of volume 9, her tweet for the new year, her mini-comic in Yuri Hime before Citrus + when she answered readers questions with her personal editor who is also Yuri Hime's editor in chief: CT translated this comic and the author says with humor that she was almost on the verge to abandon writing Citrus but kept on cause of people's support). And it is clear she was forced to give her unfinished chapter 33. But we'll never know what really happened.

last edited at Apr 21, 2019 7:23AM

Ever since the ending of the main series my brain has been on a partial strike when it comes to thinking about this one--where exactly does this fall in the timeline of the series?

Well, it seems that these chapters, set as a string of days in the Yuzu and Mei's routine during the third year, are before Mei's confession on the couch at the end of 41 and of course before the wedding that probably happens just after graduation.

Mei has just come back, there are some boxes in their room, so she came back the 27th of May, 2 weeks after the balcony scene... the last pages of 41 seems to be some vignettes in the future that she will probably develop during the year. Chapter 2 is m days after ... but Mei is learning to be more open, not enough to be the one who openly jumps on Yuzu at the end of 41 and confess in the spur of the moment.

So we are in the in between the part in the manager's house and the last pages. The spin-off seems to take the road to develop the third year, the big ellipse the author did between the balcony scene and the wedding. So the end is already set, it is more expanding the couple's everyday life and the side-characters adventures around them, how they react and how they will probably set their own goals.

last edited at Feb 20, 2019 2:31AM

There is no proof, especially not this page since the first panel is shot down by a pun... just a question of point of view. You have your idea, respect also those that think the opposite. For the moment, everything is assumption, nothing is proved, the only thing that is a fact, is that all of this happen before Mei's confession at the end of 41 and before the wedding.
Wedding where Harumi was a happy guest.

Harumi is more in the shoes of a friend relegated in the background cause her best friend found her love of her life and has set new priorities and goals. Harumi is more like someone who feels to be a third wheel, she supports Yuzu but at the same time, seeing the couple's interaction, she doesn't want to intrude. And at the same time, she wants her time with Yuzu back as it was before.
Yuzu directly come back home now ... so I don't see any romantic feelings especially since this chapter is before Mei's real confession and the wedding's preparations.

Haru is just distressed and probably lonely now that her best friend is into another galaxy. She wants to inderstand and grieves her complicity with Yuzu that Mei shattered in a sense, and the more Mei will be open and less "robotic" as some people here say, the more Harumi will feel forgotten.

The romantic possibility was already shut down with the end of the main story, and seeing a happy Harumi at the wedding doesn't really point toward any drama about that. I guess we'll probably have more insight into Harumi's inner turmoil soon, and her lonely way to deal with these issues will probably be covered.
After all, she doesn't want to bother Yuzu about that, but doesn't really want to confide into Matsuri either.

last edited at Feb 19, 2019 2:03PM

wait im confused what did she write on the notebook?

She added Yuzu's name on the cover after pondering what to narrate inside and not able to find the proper words. So she added Yuzu's name near hers to make it a couple notebook that belongs to both of them and not just Yuzu's one.

last edited at Nov 4, 2018 8:23AM

Probably an expanded version of the + bonus of each volume. By the main characters, I was talking about Harumi and Matsuri too. I imagine more some choral stories, chronicles of the Citrus' cast. A sort of anthology but this time, by the author herself.

last edited at Aug 29, 2018 2:57AM

The spin-off will be more probably a string off short-stories with the protagonists and not a new series on another character with a plot. Other series are following this trend like Masamune-Kun no revenge having its spin-off beginning in September with exactly what Citrus plus may be : shorts stories about the main characters...

Saburouta doesn’t write her story taking into account the comments here and there about disliking one of her characters lol. Especially since Japanese readers praise Mei and love her as a character.... I guess there is a real gap between readers reactions... the ending was planned one year ago and probably quickened because, as the author stated in a funny short comic in the interview, drawing her working like crazy, she was really under pressure. The spin off is more a recreational way to keep on with her creation in a more light ambiance without the pressure of a dramatic story... not a new series with a real plot focusing on another character... or the title wouldn’t have been Citrus Plus, such an impersonal and general title when spinoff on another focus usually already announce the content in an explicit title with a teaser putting in front the supposed new MC. And the teaser of Citrus Plus made Mei the first focus... so i guess Mei’s haters will have to look beyond another round with her in the story.

last edited at Aug 29, 2018 12:49AM

Meanwhile, Matsuri doesn't refer to any of the other characters formally. The closest is calling Shiraho "Shirapon-senpai" but even that is using Yuzu's nickname for her. See https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/citrus_ch31#14 for how she refers to the rest of the cast in one convenient list.

The translation is incomplete. In the Japanese version, Matsuri calls Mei, Mei-San, always. On this picture of chapter 31, the Japanese version shows, in fact, the San suffix with Mei, Mitsuko, Himeko, and Maruta. Shiraho having the same suffix than Harumi: senpai ( a very interesting point, she uses the family name + the senpai with Harumi and Suzuran, meaning that Suzaran has also some form of familiar respect from Matsuri).

Matsuri also uses the San with Mei in chapter 39. San is more formal than Senpai and implies more distance. Even in chapter 40, Matsuri still refers to Mei as Mei-San.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/citrus_ch40#9 Here, there is the San in the Japanese version (the translation uses the san on page 16 but it is not consistent leading people believe falsely that Matsuri is using the san in some ironic way which is not the case since, in Japanese, Matsuri never drops the san once, from volume 3 to volume 10). It could be interesting to see if her way to address Mei in the spin-off changed in a more familiar way.

So the idea Matsuri is not formal with people was lost to translation. In fact, she's very formal and very consistent in the different degree of suffixes she uses. The -chan with Yuzu is affectionate even though Yuzu is older than her.

To conclude, Matsuri uses two ways to address in Japanese: the usual suffix trinity san-chan-senpai and the surname she can use from time to time. Especially with Himeko, mimicking Yuzu's way to use some surname too. Very funnily, in Japanese, Yuzu is the least formal of the cast, preferring affectionate and personal surnames and rejecting the usual social rule. Harumi is adaptative and tends to test the waters before dropping the name. For her, Mei is Kaichou.

last edited at Aug 27, 2018 10:08AM

The wedding seems to happen post-third-year and graduation. Plus, the teaser points toward a timeline during the third year (school setting) + the interview mentions Yuzu and Mei's spin-off presence as open and established lovers (Vs secret ones into the main manga) but not as married partners. The way Matsuri addresses to Harumi during the wedding is still formal (Taniguchi-senpai in the translation, also formal in the Japanese version) and doesn't show a spectacular shift in their relationship toward being girlfriends. So it is a mystery for the moment what the author has really in store for the cast especially if the setting is before the marriage.

We can maybe theorize a series that will be a sort of chronicles about Citrus' cast's light and funny shenanigans.

The wedding page showing the guests is very interesting and detailed, the author didn't do it without thinking (showing the former friends, but also two senior teachers from the school hinting the Academy support the wedding. How? Well, no answer sadly ... for the moment if we are optimistic).

last edited at Aug 25, 2018 2:33PM

Edit: Posted two days ago: “So far what is known about the spinoff is that it will focus more on the side-characters such as Harumi, Matsuri and Himeko.”

https://yurination.wordpress.com/2018/08/17/citrus-plus-spinoff-manga-announced-for-winter-2018/

How it is fun to see this info posted the 17th before the official release of the magazine because people from this blog just took a look to unofficial leaks of some pictures. "What we know so far" = they know nothing more than what is shown on the teaser for the series.

The spin-off tag excludes the sequel since the wedding is in a near future, unknown but not too far from the graduation.

Probably expanded stories on side-characters too along with stories about the main couple, but also a genre shift to a more slice of life tone. And another timeline (third year?). Maybe a different format two, no real plot but different stories, different focus. All that are assumptions of course. Let us not forget that Citrus + is the name of the bonus chapters in each volume.

The Hime Cafe interview of the author, published in the same magazine at the end of it, and not yet translated officially (and totally ignored by most of the manga blogs that all blogged the same info taken from the leaks) gives two details, three if we add some direct answer of the author herself.

To a readers question about "What will happen to Yuzu and Mei now ?"

• Answer from the author: "It will be enjoyable to have Mei and Yuzu meets new events/things".
• Additional comment from her co-commentator (who is her personal editor and also Yuri Hime's editor in chief): "Because Yuzu and Mei became an established couple (openly lovers), they will have new encounters. Look forward to seeing that in the spin-off in winter".
• The conclusion of the interview where the author mentions she'd like to draw adult romances and societal conflicts: "Although Citrus greeted it last chapter this issue, let's have a look to the happy daily life of Yuzu and Mei in the spin-off beginning this winter".

Except for this interview and the teaser, there is absolutely nothing about the spin-off content.

last edited at Aug 21, 2018 4:08AM

The two guys with fans are Shiraho's "brothers" (yakuza guards in fact but considered as a family) and Yuzu's greatest fans since she was able to make Shiraho laugh in the bonus chapter of volume 7.

The two girls on the bottom are Yuzu's former friends she meets again in volume 6 and whose reaction to a same sex couple display of affection made her having her depressed state at this time.

Maybe the spin-off will cover the events between Mei's real confession and the wedding that seems to happen in an immediate future after high school, since Yuzu talked about the marriage being possible in a near future (meaning not yet when there are back together) and the color page didn't show clearly the faces of the band.

And so, the fact these former friends are here will be explained too... Who knows.

last edited at Aug 20, 2018 8:51AM

@Blastaar

Well, Yuzu stated that their marriage would be possible in a near future... so the final scene is a little time-skip... into a future where the marriage is official in Japan (there is a push nowadays and 2020 OG could accelerate the process). It is possible that the spin-off that the author presented as something about Yuzu and Mei daily life and encounters as openly lovers (not yet wives) fills the gap between the two last scenes of the chapters.

last edited at Aug 18, 2018 3:58PM

@Blastaar.

Probably Shou, leaving and coming back from time to time... or a plane shot like we had in the anime as a little private joke from the author.

last edited at Aug 18, 2018 3:19PM

Punctuation is overrated nowadays...

The spin-off will narrate Yuzu and Mei happy day by day life ... it is what the author said in the Hime Cafe Interview of YH 10.

It is usually a color cover that continues the magazine cover page. It is not related to any series.

Translation :

Although this is the final chapter of Citrus from the Comic Yuri Hime October issue, which is released on August 18th (Saturday), it is published in a different way than usual. If it's possible, it will be more interesting if you can read from the first page of the magazine!
Some leaked images might come out earlier than the magazine (released), but I would be happy if you could successfully avoid them.

last edited at Aug 5, 2018 7:09AM

I don't think she'll have sex either. The more we can hope is maybe a morning after scene after some time skip. But at this pace, it seems we can hardly predict now what the author will give us or not in the last chapter more than the expected reconciliation scene.

last edited at Jul 31, 2018 11:44AM

I wouldn't take her passive-aggressive behavior as a proof of it, especially if we replace things into context. A Japanese arranged marriage with a groomed female heir of a prestigious family with a member of the school team. I think that people really try to put western google here. So I still find unlikely that Mei had sex, really, especially when we look at the way the kiss of chapter 1 happens (at school since the teacher, as a future fiancee in an omai wouldn't date or meet Mei at home alone, just had some social meetings with her to conclude the future contract) and with the way the teacher is talking with his lover on the phone : "until then, the most I will do is to be affectionate" [それまではせいぜい可愛がるさ] meaning he won't do anything more than we already saw (kiss) before being married to Mei when she'll be 18 to have status and prestige.

Edit : 可愛がる means be sweet, caring in a very cute way, pampering. The Japanese word clearly excludes sexual undertones. If the teacher would have already had sex with Mei, he wouldn't have used this word.

Let's not talk about the huge scandal that led him to leave the school without notice for just kissing her meaning he already went to far...

If we take into account Mei's way to retaliate against Yuzu's "romantic kiss" speech, we can think that Mei wanted to show to Yuzu how it was far from being romantic. She was clearly hurt by Yuzu's cockiness here, Yuzu, of course, being ignorant of Mei's real situation. For just the kiss ... I think that is enough for her to imagine using physical intimacy as a way to control people, without having been in a sexual situation with the teacher. The chapter 8 scene happens just after Mei has been in touch with Yuzu's readings, she's still the mimic specialist she's in the manga because it's difficult for her to act accordingly to her true self.

The author, sadly, never made things clear about that (even though I find the wording enough), but I never saw, except here and on some western social forums, readers believing she had sex, not among Japanese readers. Because the fact she's in an arranged wedding exclude sexual relationships before it.

EDIT : sorry for the edit, but I needed to check at home my Japanese volumes, and I think that the infamous chapter 8 scene that people (here) read as Mei being familiar of sexual acts is almost a translation trap. Not the first time the Seven Seas translation and the fansub's one miss a word (Remember the "for a while" forgotten).

chaopter 8 : https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/citrus_ch08#3

Mei's quote in third panel : 優しくするわはじめてなんでしょう?

It is usually translated with "I'll be gentle for your first time". this is a plausible interpretation cause at this moment, translators read Mei's behavior as being potentially promiscuous. So it can make sense if we forget other hints and the cultural context of the omaï, and also Mei's real personality that will transpire more and more after volume 2.

But, the Japanese wording doesn't explicitly mention the 2nd person. The first time mentioned by Mei isn't specifically exclusively Yuzu's one (implying it is not Mei's first).

The sentence is more ... "I'll be gentle for the first time, don't you agree ?" or more "How about I be gentle for the first time?". Or, literally, "How about I act with gentleness for the first time". Which can explain why Japanese readers never really bothered with the theory of Mei having had sex already, cause well, the wording is clear for them.

The first time here {はじめて} isn't explicitly the first time someone makes love ... it is not a noun but a temporal adverb. This can imply that it is also her first time or more than that: she knows Yuzu likes gentleness and sweetness, she is a pure romantic, so Mei believes she has to act caringly, sweetly in contradiction of her forceful ways to take control of Yuzu the previous times she used physical intimacy.

The Japanese sentence doesn't really state 100% that it's only Yuzu's first time, cause there isn't the equivalent of "your". Once again, we have a mimic Mei. She read Yuzu's manga, saw sweet love scenes (remember Harumin mimicking a position she read) and imagine that is what she has to do to shut Yuzu in a more satisfying way. Her previous tactics were to be abrupt as the teacher was with her, but she thinks she knows Yuzu better and changes her tactic, to use something sweeter.

last edited at Jul 31, 2018 6:16AM

No @Amberheart, Mei didn't have sex with the teacher. Especially not if he's her fiancé before the marriage her grandfather already prepared for her after school at this time, not knowing that this man was manipulating her. The more she had with him was these molesting and forced kisses we saw... enough to already give her a very disturbed view on physical intimacy.

If you talk about Mei's behavior in chapter 8 ("that is your first time"), it is clear that she's all bravado and tries to project the image of an experienced and assured person when she's not. It's one of her traits: keeping control by showing she's full of confidence when she lacks this confidence. Another trait is that she's someone that mimic things she reads or listens to because she needs guidance and needs "to follow the plan". She quoted Nene's word about her admiration for Yuzu in volume 5. We know she read Yuzu's mangas, so she probably copies lines and gestures she saw ...

It's especially proved during one of the bonus when she perfectly quotes the Peach sisters and knows the exact page of her quote.

She is also looking for a book on "Romance for beginners" in volume 6 at the Academy's library. So Mei is totally clueless about these things, she doesn't have the first-hand experience except chapter 1.

It's a real misunderstanding of her character if you proclaim she had sex already. I will add, it is an arranged marriage with the teacher so of course, she is still a virgin! And from the air of disgust she had in chapter 1 after the kiss, pretty sure that she didn't identify, as you state, with him. She's disconnected, her feelings and her mind in one part, her body in the other part.

last edited at Jul 31, 2018 2:24AM

Thank you, at least I am happy if I am clear.

Maybe I misunderstood you but you also misread some of my comments, because there isn't any condescension from my side. So, if you think that some of your posts or comments were wrongly judged or interpreted, fair point but don't do the same to others, you are also wrongly judgemental about some of my posts.

Yes, English is my third language, probably the reason that I can be confusing and cannot fully use the precise word to express my thought, I am lost in translation myself and it's frustrating. But, I don't feel debating with someone who is in attack mode and sneaks some innuendos especially when I tried to carefully read you, and reread you when some others made fun of your posts' verbosity.

About the notes of the author, you linked these precise notes in one of your posts.

last edited at May 23, 2018 3:00AM

What you are asking is a complete rereading of the manga in Japanese with spotting multiple examples to see if what you feel has more or less basis. For a perfect native Japanese mastering English, it would be doable without many efforts (but it would still need some work). For me, who doesn’t master Japanese totally, it would be a serious huge work to do. Easier to answer about a scene or a precise page of the manga. To avoid doing mistakes. And the author uses sometimes hard kanjis scenes that require a real effort. Except, once again for someone with a real degree of mastery in Japanese and English. So taking a good amount of time to do the deep analysis you require would be fine if I didn’t work and had free time. And I don’t have a special authority... far from it, just the wish to defend the manga’s writing from quick judgments.

The author like to be referential about other cultural contents from the manga universe, the author likes to use echoes (and the translation is enough to see some of them), the author uses many foreshadowing that any serious reader can spot in English when rereading the manga, she likes to uses mise en abyme (self insertion...) and is also self critical .... all of that can be seen in the translation (I could also point out some examples, but I am not all so mighty and I like to think that people here already read the full manga once and remember what they read and they like to exhange about their interpretation more than having someone who does a full analysys point per point and quote as fast as Calimity Jane to impose their idea).

From my point of view, I find it interesting and sometimes admirable.... and I don’t understand some readers’ attacks about her work like « lol shitty plot, lol stupid characters, lol retarded writing ».

And about what was tweeted, readers can check the author account. The tweet in question was written after episode 3 or 4: each week the author made a kind of light review of the previous episode. But I like to think that I don’t need to quote and link each source in a simple forum discussion about a manga... except if people here think everybody is lying.

And I think you underestimate readers capacity to search precise insights. My point was just to say the author is subtler than what people think. But it is’just Citrus, you already made your interpretation of her work and the author’s notes about rereading the story to see new things or reaffirming her wish to stay stronger and healthy to write the manga.

If the above question (posed earlier) is clear--again, about the "echoes"/quoted aspects, is that something that could be tackled in a couple of sentences or paragraphs with examples (off the top of your head)?

So no, analyzing the echoes I talked about wouldn't be done in just in a "couple" of sentences. The fact I didn't answer to your post about this matter just one day after it doesn't mean I wouldn't give insight but reading your post ... I don’t know how to interpret your it... some implicit attack out of frustration that I don’t do the examples listing and checking you wanted as quickjly as you want it? So, I will let it slide.

last edited at May 23, 2018 2:24AM

Didn't Yuzu already come out during vol5? I was always confused by the different translation, but she said the person she loved was in the school... So was she talking about romantic love at that moment or about the one she loved?

I'm hoping for an heart to heart discussion, maybe an involuntary coming out. But I guess I won't be disappointed because Ume is the real best girl of the manga.

In fact, she said she was at school because of love, but it didn't clearly imply that the lover was at the Academy. The translation nailed it, "I am a high school girl because of love, for a love affair" in the sense her motivation to be a good student is love (romantic love in her wording) when the other girls wants to be in a good university. Yuzu wanted to say that her "significant other" "her special someone" (she never states the gender of the lover and it never indicates if she/he is another student here or anywhere else ) inspired her, praised her hence her proudness to affirm her feminity.

In Yuzu's mind, in volume 6, when she's paranoid about other people's opinions, she believes that others students are aware she came out. But, in fact, they are clueless.

Indeed, I would like a badass Ume or at least see Ume really support Yuzu. We saw that she's worried and sorry about Yuzu's moodiness and depression, but she didn't seem to have acted yet. That would be fun, and the author like to use comedic relief if she said to Yuzu she knew all along and it was time to take back Mei.

@matsuri_wins : yes, I like to think that Harumi poor-spirited behavior here has a purpose to finally make her act. Each character has walls they need to destroy, Mei must believe she's allowed to act accordingly to her real wishes, Harumi must believe that meddling and confronting friends in despair is needed. They have good intentions but don't see that it doesn't lead them on a good path. Sara is a special case, she's pushy, she doesn't shy about asking people things and calling them out, but contrary to Matsuri, she does that with a real tact. She confronted Mei during the date, she comforted Yuzu in volume 5 and gave her some fighting spirit to express her feelings, and she's helping here too.

The author talked about expanding Harumi's background. She tweeted that Harumi's family was very frightening and was made up of very manipulative persons (not only Mitsuko). So i guess, the author has something in store for Harumi and that her frustrating behavior will be explained and overcame.

last edited at May 22, 2018 1:11PM

I am not sure of that, because she would risk Mei's situation. I don't see Yuzu coming out without Mei, they have to do that together. She talks about asking an advice to Ume, so more an indirect way to strengthen her conviction whatever idea popped into her mind during her sleep. About Mei feeling forced to marry, about the wish to stop someone you love from doing a huge mistake, about pursuing love at any prices ...

But, a coming out would be indeed a memorable event into the manga... or the next chapter could also open on another character and we wouldn't have the conversation's content until another chapter or the end of chapter 39. The author already used this postponed revelation of an important speech cut out ... So many options, so many assumptions ...