eromancer posted:
My read on Honoka has always been that she is obviously straight.
Well, then you turned out to be wrong.
That's probably the most unbelievable statement I have ever heard about the genre. How many yuri manga have you read? ... giving 2 fucks about "straight representation" ... what? More realistic????? ... "no shit" ... And now that's just hot bs. ... you're using those harmful stereotypes ... you're now dedicated contrarian just to spite them ... huge pain in the ass, because there will be always that 1 person who just won't shut up how they're not confirmed couple, so to think we'd actually have a discussion questioning a freaking mutual confession on fucking yuri focused forum, I'm more than shocked
Nevri, I'm going to start by saying that I feel bad about not reading any further than the last sentence of what I selectively quoted above. You seemed to pour a lot of passion into that post, whether or not you intended for me or others to read it, and I don't doubt that there is some valuable insight there. I'd like to come back and read it at some point.
And I imagine you take exception to my selective quote - as if I'm trying to make you look unreasonable or hysterical. I'm not. I am merely trying to highlight what jumps out at me as the difference in tone and emotional investment in this discussion - and why I'm not inclined to engage it much further unless we straighten something out here.
Since I've clearly hit a nerve with you, let me be clear: I'm not the slightest bit angry or upset about any of this. I haven't the vaguest hint of "spite" - I even explained in my last post about how I wanted this to happen and am mostly just being skeptical. But it's just a manga. I'm merely sharing my opinion about this one aspect, and I thought we might have an interesting discussion. I had no idea people would actually get so angry and hostile about something like this.
To your remark about how many yuri manga I've read: lots. And they don't usually indulge in the fantasy of an entire world full of gay women, but sometimes they do. And that's fine. But since this is one of my favorite manga, I credit it with a bit more nuance and felt like it wouldn't at all be a bad thing if it were willing to explore an unusually intimate yet platonic relationship. I'm not sure if you are opposed to that sort of thing or never thought of it that way, but your hostility to my thinking so has definitely taken me aback. I see this as being open minded, which I would hope would be acceptable among what I would assume is liberal company here.
I don't know you, ...
Well let me give you some relevant information. I'm somebody who normally spends way too much time on political forums trying to convince varying degrees of delusional right-wing ... people ... to open their eyes to the danger the United States is in from militant MAGA culture, political authoritarians, and religious extremists. As I'm sure you can imagine, things can get a bit chippy, despite my best efforts.
So when I come on a forum like this, well I guess I'm naive enough to imagine I won't have to deal with anything like that, because we're talking about comic books. This is life's toy department. And though the discussion intersects with some real life issues, they're mostly about people's individual perspectives on general differences between genders and sexual preferences. We all have them, and they all differ to some extent - and I'd hope we could talk about them without wanting to punch each other.
And on that note I would respond that I never said anything about whether differences in men and women were the result of nature or nurture (that's unclear, but our best scientific understanding plus the wisdom of dealing with complexity says, like most things, it's a bit of both). Nor did I say they were categorical, which is why I made it clear that it was just my opinion and I could be wrong. As to my reliance on "harmful stereotypes", everyone promulgates and buys into stereotypes (this manga is full of them), and all stereotypes can be portrayed as "harmful". It seems to me that you've clearly made some assumptions about me based on past experiences with others - and perhaps the fact that I'm a straight male.
... if the rest of your posts weren't so infuriating. And to answer your question, you're wrong. At least half of dynasty users aren't straight or men, so next time you want to write bs like that, do remember definitely a lesbian, a gay and a trans person will read it. And just to be clear, I'm a lesbian, so you can consider all I said a unquestionable truth and you're not allowed to argue with me (just in case it's not clear, I'm being facetious).
Again, I'm sorry and disappointed to hear I've infuriated you. I'm glad you pointed out that you were being facetious because I'm not sure what I would have thought otherwise. I didn't (and still don't) think I said anything that ought to be infuriating - aside from the general discomfort that we've no doubt all experienced when someone has a different take on a beloved story that we have an emotional investment in. I understand that, but I would hope that's something we eventually learn to see as a subjective thing not worthy of this kind of rancor. I think if you re-read my posts without the preconception that I'm some troll trying to piss on people's favorite ship, ... well, I hope you'd agree I'm being respectful in my opinions.
I'm happy to hear the perspective of a lesbian, because I explicitly asked for it. And by the way, the reason I had a feeling that most of us were straight men is that yuri can often cater to straight male tastes, something that I've heard from women before. I'd be interested to know how you can say what proportion of people here are male or female.
Anyway, I'm sure you don't want to hear me lecturing you, but I also don't need to be lectured on how to speak to gay or bisexual people. I've done plenty. (I only know one transgendered person IRL, but I imagine that number will grow.) Generally speaking, I don't moderate my speech much based on who's listening. I find it disingenuous.
So I would hope that if you wanted to continue the discussion we could do so with a bit more civility. If not, then this is obviously more important to you than it is to me.
