Forum › Bloom Into You discussion

445
joined Jan 9, 2019

Another great chapter. Finally Sayaka can move on. She's like the catalyst for Touko's realization of what love is. Touko can finally feel happy to be loved and hurts so bad to reject someone she's close to.
Happy and sad at the same time.
Hope there's happy ending for Sayaka

joined Mar 15, 2015

I enjoyed this chapter, particularly Touko coming to realize that loving someone can still allow them to change, Sayaka being able to move on from her love for Touko, and Touko taking the first steps to reach out to Yuu again. Of course, the latter will also probably require some thought and character development on Yuu's end, since she still has a somewhat romanticized view of love (her belief that she didn't cry after Touko's "rejection" like Akari did after she realized her senpai would never reciprocate her feelings means that she may not have loved Touko).

While it was unfair of Touko to assume that Sayaka's feelings were as shallow as all her other suitors, Sayaka did admit that she'd been in love with Touko's "perfect" persona at first. As such, it's good that the discussion on the boat helps Touko realize that Sayaka knew about her vulnerability and imperfection but loved her anyway.

All in all, it's good that Sayaka's love for Touko was taken seriously and her (inevitable) rejection ended up helping move the plot forward, rather than being a way to tie up loose ends.

By the way, Special 6 should be moved to "Volum" 7(add an "e"), between Chapter 36 and Chapter 37. Otherwise, new readers will probably get confused when it references s a scene that hasn't happened yet.

4bbe1078a9d82bf519de9e5fc56dee60
joined Feb 18, 2018

Sayaka dodged a bullet here folks, and Yuu will get to deal with Touko's BS from now on lol All is well! Unfortunately the SayakaxTouko kiss scene I was hoping for will never happen, that's the only negative.

20180801_183554
joined Oct 7, 2017

Sayaka is too much of a gay cinnamon bun :c. I just want all of my little gaybies to be happy..

joined Jul 26, 2016

Sayaka is too much of a gay cinnamon bun :c. I just want all of my little gaybies to be happy..

TBF in any triangular setup like this about the only way somebody isn't getting burned is going full Is My Hobby Weird polyamory which would generally be rather stretching the limits of plausibility. An amiable closure like this is about the best realistic outcome for the unfortunate party.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Sayaka is too much of a gay cinnamon bun :c. I just want all of my little gaybies to be happy..

TBF in any triangular setup like this about the only way somebody isn't getting burned is going full Is My Hobby Weird polyamory which would generally be rather stretching the limits of plausibility. An amiable closure like this is about the best realistic outcome for the unfortunate party.

Which leads to a rather bizarre authorial dilemma for serial romance narratives—the more fully and effectively the characters are developed, the more fan anguish when one leg of the triangle inevitably gets the short end of the stick. Safer to make the tritagonist an evil manipulator or otherwise flawed or unsympathetic lest readers contract Second-Lead Syndrome and turn hostile to the story in progress.

This was a major problem with the structure of What Does the Fox Say? where a significant chunk of the readership fell in love with the third wheel when the character was given an interesting but overdeveloped backstory compared to the lead.

Sayaka’s great—she’s just not the one, and never has been.

joined Nov 5, 2017

Sayaka’s great—she’s just not the one, and never has been.

This. I tried to imagine how a relationship between Touko and Sayaka would look like (before and after Touko changed and felt ready to accept love) but something feels off.
Before Touko changed, Sayaka would only spoil her which has been shown to be terrible for Touko. Saying "yes" to everything she asks for would have ended in Touko having a huge breakdown eventually.

I guess after Touko changed, Sayaka spoiling her isn't bad. But both are big dorks, so it would be a pretty clingy and lovey dovey relationship lol

last edited at Feb 3, 2019 11:43AM

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Sayaka’s great—she’s just not the one, and never has been.

This. I tried to imagine how a relationship between Touko and Sayaka would look like (before and after Touko changed and felt ready to accept love) but something feels off.
Before Touko changed, Sayaka would only spoil her which has been shown to be terrible for Touko. Saying "yes" to everything she asks for would have ended in Touko having a huge breakdown eventually.

I think it may be as simple as the fact that they’re basically similar—Sayaka was first attracted to Touko because she embodied what Sayaka aspired to be (and nearly was). That’s often perfectly fine in friendships, but not always so great for intimate relationships, where it can work better when each person has different qualities that complement rather than mirror those of the other person.

It’s true that Sayaka didn’t step up to help Touko by confronting her about her self-limiting self image, but Touko never let her in far enough to get a real sense of how damaging that attitude threatened to be. So it was really quite understandable that Sayaka was content to stick with the status quo. I’m pretty confident that if the two of them had been in a relationship and Sayaka saw that Touko was in real psychological trouble, she would have been willing to do whatever it took to help her.

But all that speculation is completely circular, because only Yuu was allowed to be close enough to see that it wasn’t just that Touko had a vulnerable side that she kept hidden (which Sayaka did know), but that she was locked into a negative pattern where she thought she was undeserving of love (which only Yuu knew).

last edited at Feb 3, 2019 3:12PM

Itwouldbe-yuriscans
joined Oct 30, 2018

Your plan was perfect, Sayaka—but you forgot about the ducks.

One glimpse of nuzzling lesbian ducks, and the whole thing comes crashing down.

You gave it your best shot. You might have pulled it off, too, if it weren’t for those darned ducks.

I imagine it now, instead of angels coming down from heaven when you realize you're gay, you get ducks instead
ducks are now the new heralds of gay

45146235_746277355746718_170304489897590784_n
joined Dec 19, 2016

Aww poor Sayaka. She tried her best.
And here I was rooting for her since early chapters :(

Wooper
joined Oct 25, 2015

Well done.

I'm glad we were able to see Touko admit she was in love out loud. I feel like it was left hanging to this point.

Fad8970e-c901-4004-bae1-4e5d013b5424
joined Jan 19, 2019

Sayaka dodged a bullet here folks, and Yuu will get to deal with Touko's BS from now on lol All is well! Unfortunately the SayakaxTouko kiss scene I was hoping for will never happen, that's the only negative.

Well, I do hope they fill the expected (yet still frustrating to some for some reason) lack of Saeki-san/Nanami-san kisses with a whole deal lot of Koito-san/Nanami-san kisses! We already knew that they loved each other, now they also know, so all that is left to do is hope that Nanami-san does not. Screw. Up.

I imagine it now, instead of angels coming down from heaven when you realize you're gay, you get ducks instead
ducks are now the new heralds of gay

I really se a lot of potential in this, but we gotta start referencing it now on as much memes as we can, otherwise the other fandoms won’t get it, or worse, they’ll try to steal it.

Ducks are official Lesbian Spirit Animals and no one is gonna take that from us.

last edited at Feb 3, 2019 10:07PM

joined Jul 26, 2016

Ducks are official Lesbian Spirit Animals and no one is gonna take that from us.

They're also a bunch of nasty little gang-rapists. Just sayin'.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

I imagine it now, instead of angels coming down from heaven when you realize you're gay, you get ducks instead
ducks are now the new heralds of gay

I think the affectionate ducks are more the reminders of that classic Armor-Piercing Question posed by Sugi to Akko in Morinaga Milk’s Girl Friends: when your emotions get all tangled up and you really want to figure out exactly how you feel about that extra-special friend, ask yourself:

“Is this someone I can imagine ‘doing it’ with?”

Love can take many forms, but when it comes to billing and cooing together, Touko only has eyes for her little kouhai duckling.

Sin%20t%c3%adtulo-min
joined Sep 28, 2011

#GIVESAYAKAAGIRLFRIEND2019

MAH GIRL DESERVES ALL THE HAPPINESS IN THE WORLD

last edited at Feb 3, 2019 11:40PM

Ava
joined Dec 7, 2018

Oh... I am sad this is ending... its all bittersweet!
I cant wait to see the end...
I am sad for Sayaka, but Touko drug is Yuu, she is totally adicted to her... look at the eyes!
And I agree with Blastaar, in the end, its about if you like the other one as a couple

E4f2e417faf2a5b3cd19ad88cda3219e
joined Nov 21, 2017

Yeah... I still don't like Touko. Let them all figure out they're gay and date other people outside of this triangle. I don't want Touko and Yuu to end up together because of how unhealthy their relationship is but that's my opinion.

joined Jan 19, 2017

This chapter made me extraordinarily excited and it hurt.

Even with all the buildup and inevitability, during chapter 37 and the first half of ch.38, it still seemed like maybe Sayaka really did have a chance. Maybe Touko would do a 60 degree heel turn and head straight for the other side of the triangle, for that person who has always been there (even if not really). I consider that to be an amazing feature of Nakatani's writing, the sensitivity towards the complexity of people and human emotions, and the power of our choices in determining our lives, rather than just being helplessly guided by uncontrollable feelings. Because we truly don't know what will happen until Touko opens her mouth and finally reveals her choice.

This complexity is even more layered because despite it being a choice with both given choices being theoretically valid, we know what decision will be made. She could have chosen Sayaka. She really could have. Sayaka's confession made her happy, because who wouldn't be happy to know they are so unconditionally loved? But in this lifetime, with this set of events, she never would have. And that's because every set of choices she has made have led her up to this point. She has always chosen to love Yuu over Sayaka. She has always chosen to shut out Sayaka where she chose to let Yuu in. An entire 37 chapters of choices precede this decision, in which she consistently and reliably chooses Yuu to love. (Perhaps, it could be argued, her love has not always been "love", full, freeing and healthy, but in light of what those choices meant to her, that was love.) Just as her revised play character did, she is making choices based on what has happened to her. There could have been no other choice, Nakatani says, because her heart had chosen. That is what love is.

And it hurts. It hurts to let somebody in to such a great degree and to then become disconnected from them. And that is a part of love too, as painful or even annoying as that can be. I think the confession scene had one of the greatest displays of those sides of love. It's such a simple moment, in such a humble setting; there is no galaxy of stars overhead, no sunset in the distance, just the river flowing in the background and the ducks settling in. It gave me profound chills.

I loved the symbolism too as always. The duck on pg 27 flying in and skimming the water just as Sayaka said "she stepped in" hit home. I wasn't as sure about the boats actually. The implication was that two people in the boat would be able to navigate narrow places. Sayaka and Touko definitely did that. But I think it applies for many more situations than just that too, like Touko and Yuu navigating the play, and likewise. The fall(?) leaves were a symbol of change, and I couldn't quite tell if the ones on pg 11 were being pulled downstream or not. They could have represented Sayaka. But based on the placement of the words in the second panel, where Sayaka's talking about being disappointed, the leaves could also represent love in general. When she's saying she would be disappointed, the leaves are in the water, eventually rotting away, dying or dead love. And in the bottom-most panel of pg 11, a leaf is falling as she talks about "Loving someone..." It evoked the feeling of the risk inherent to love, for me at least. The necessity of falling, of having faith and trust in another, that is inherent to love. Then in the next page, the leaf lands on Touko. That is who that love was gifted to. Sayaka takes the leaf and holds it, and I think that represents her love for Touko, how it is wholly her own. A love in the shape of a leaf, subject to change and death, but still intact in that moment. It's a beautiful image.

I would go into extended analysis of the characters too and their internal worlds and changes, but I think it's been said enough already by others. And this chapter, to me at least, did stand out to me not so much for the characters, though of course that's still something I care about greatly, but for its declaration of what love is. I think Nakatani has said that the biggest question Bloom Into You has always striven to answer is what love is. This chapter finally provided a concrete answer for what that truth might be, and it was what evoked both excitement and hurt in me.

joined Sep 1, 2017

This chapter made me extraordinarily excited and it hurt.

Even with all the buildup and inevitability, during chapter 37 and the first half of ch.38, it still seemed like maybe Sayaka really did have a chance. Maybe Touko would do a 60 degree heel turn and head straight for the other side of the triangle, for that person who has always been there (even if not really). I consider that to be an amazing feature of Nakatani's writing, the sensitivity towards the complexity of people and human emotions, and the power of our choices in determining our lives, rather than just being helplessly guided by uncontrollable feelings. Because we truly don't know what will happen until Touko opens her mouth and finally reveals her choice.

This complexity is even more layered because despite it being a choice with both given choices being theoretically valid, we know what decision will be made. She could have chosen Sayaka. She really could have. Sayaka's confession made her happy, because who wouldn't be happy to know they are so unconditionally loved? But in this lifetime, with this set of events, she never would have. And that's because every set of choices she has made have led her up to this point. She has always chosen to love Yuu over Sayaka. She has always chosen to shut out Sayaka where she chose to let Yuu in. An entire 37 chapters of choices precede this decision, in which she consistently and reliably chooses Yuu to love. (Perhaps, it could be argued, her love has not always been "love", full, freeing and healthy, but in light of what those choices meant to her, that was love.) Just as her revised play character did, she is making choices based on what has happened to her. There could have been no other choice, Nakatani says, because her heart had chosen. That is what love is.

And it hurts. It hurts to let somebody in to such a great degree and to then become disconnected from them. And that is a part of love too, as painful or even annoying as that can be. I think the confession scene had one of the greatest displays of those sides of love. It's such a simple moment, in such a humble setting; there is no galaxy of stars overhead, no sunset in the distance, just the river flowing in the background and the ducks settling in. It gave me profound chills.

I loved the symbolism too as always. The duck on pg 27 flying in and skimming the water just as Sayaka said "she stepped in" hit home. I wasn't as sure about the boats actually. The implication was that two people in the boat would be able to navigate narrow places. Sayaka and Touko definitely did that. But I think it applies for many more situations than just that too, like Touko and Yuu navigating the play, and likewise. The fall(?) leaves were a symbol of change, and I couldn't quite tell if the ones on pg 11 were being pulled downstream or not. They could have represented Sayaka. But based on the placement of the words in the second panel, where Sayaka's talking about being disappointed, the leaves could also represent love in general. When she's saying she would be disappointed, the leaves are in the water, eventually rotting away, dying or dead love. And in the bottom-most panel of pg 11, a leaf is falling as she talks about "Loving someone..." It evoked the feeling of the risk inherent to love, for me at least. The necessity of falling, of having faith and trust in another, that is inherent to love. Then in the next page, the leaf lands on Touko. That is who that love was gifted to. Sayaka takes the leaf and holds it, and I think that represents her love for Touko, how it is wholly her own. A love in the shape of a leaf, subject to change and death, but still intact in that moment. It's a beautiful image.

I would go into extended analysis of the characters too and their internal worlds and changes, but I think it's been said enough already by others. And this chapter, to me at least, did stand out to me not so much for the characters, though of course that's still something I care about greatly, but for its declaration of what love is. I think Nakatani has said that the biggest question Bloom Into You has always striven to answer is what love is. This chapter finally provided a concrete answer for what that truth might be, and it was what evoked both excitement and hurt in me.

;-; wow... that was nice. I couldn’t even think of half of that. Thank you.

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

last edited at Feb 4, 2019 5:05AM

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

"No symbolism means anything ever, always go for the explanation that requires the least analysis. I mean it's not like an author wants their work looked at in depth or anything."

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Just a heads-up, people—I’ve got a big wall o’text percolating on the differences between connotation, suggestion, and symbolism (and also narrative staging), and soon as I get the time and energy, you’re gonna get it.

So don’t say you weren’t warned. :)

Sayaka_ava
joined Nov 23, 2014

Certainly you can read deep into symbolism in fiction, this work definitely included, but surely it is also true that sometimes a picture is the way it is simply because the artist thought it would look nice, no? I suppose the difference lies between "this could possibly mean something" and "this has to mean something". It feels more like doing detective work than art analysis when you approach the work from the angle of "okay I know this boat definitely symbolizes something, but what".

This is not to say that riverFlower up there for example is somehow wrong or that their opinion is invalid of course, just a general observation.

last edited at Feb 4, 2019 9:55AM

Fad8970e-c901-4004-bae1-4e5d013b5424
joined Jan 19, 2019

They're also a bunch of nasty little gang-rapists. Just sayin'.

So are dolphins, but we never stop cute-fetishizing them. Real life is always rougher.

I suppose the difference lies between "this could possibly mean something" and "this has to mean something".

This being Nakatani, I think the boat scene (as well as the ducks) lays more on the “this has to mean something” side. Not the “has” that we wouldn’t be able to understand the scene without it (it’s YagaKimi, not SKU), but more on the side of “The scene is already good on the surface, but as soon as we go deeper, it gets even better!”.

last edited at Feb 4, 2019 12:29PM

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

Just... the interpretation of the leaves, "dying away or rotten as Sayaka's love" is eye-rolling for me. It's their autumn trip, so there are falling leaves. That's it.

Nothing wrong in trying to wring out everything you can out of a manga you love, but sometimes it's really far fetched.

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