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Yukiko fixes all the fairy tales at one fell swoop.
That's not overlocalizing anything, that's normal. Every manga that keeps honorifics or the reverse name structure is the odd one out. I guess a case for honorifics can be made (as it often is really hard to make the subtleties work otherwise), but reversing the names? Come on.
Changing the name order for Japanese people has always been somewhat strange when you think about it though, it is not like they do it to us. Furthermore, Chinese and Korean names for example typically retain their last-name-first order even in the west. I suppose this is just something that has stuck because tradition/convention?
Yukiko fixes all the fairy tales at one fell swoop.
The Kohai pair is gay, but Sakurako and Kasumi outgay them in every possible way
They pretty much out gay every lesbian pair no matter what series it is.
Sakurako isn't even trying be subtle about her crush on Kasumi at this point.
There is no way Kasumi doesn't fully realize Sakurako is in love with her. It is just a matter of displaying her own feelings openly on a regular basis clearly.
That's not overlocalizing anything, that's normal. Every manga that keeps honorifics or the reverse name structure is the odd one out. I guess a case for honorifics can be made (as it often is really hard to make the subtleties work otherwise), but reversing the names? Come on.
Changing the name order for Japanese people has always been somewhat strange when you think about it though, it is not like they do it to us. Furthermore, Chinese and Korean names for example typically retain their last-name-first order even in the west. I suppose this is just something that has stuck because tradition/convention?
It simply makes no sense to keep the reversed order in a Western release. It's not like honorifics or self-contained words (like kimono) which should not be changed, because meaning would be lost.
It's just which name you say or write first... there is no reason to keep it reversed. When a character's full name is said, what would be lost if you do it in the Western order? Nothing. It's just more convenient to read.
It's kinda like saying localized manga should write words from up to down in single lines like this
E
x
a
m
p
l
e
Because it is more accurate to how they use their characters. Inconvenient.
Yukiko fixes all the fairy tales at one fell swoop.
I am not familiar with Yuru Yuri and I do not think much of Fate, but that still looks pretty amusing!
Changing the name order for Japanese people has always been somewhat strange when you think about it though, it is not like they do it to us. Furthermore, Chinese and Korean names for example typically retain their last-name-first order even in the west. I suppose this is just something that has stuck because tradition/convention?
It simply makes no sense to keep the reversed order in a Western release. It's not like honorifics or self-contained words (like kimono) which should not be changed, because meaning would be lost.
It's just which name you say or write first... there is no reason to keep it reversed. When a character's full name is said, what would be lost if you do it in the Western order? Nothing. It's just more convenient to read.It's kinda like saying localized manga should write words from up to down in single lines like this
E
x
a
m
p
l
e
Because it is more accurate to how they use their characters. Inconvenient.
"It simply makes no sense" except for reasons I just gave that you chose to sidestep, but whatever I guess. You keep using the word "reversed" like it is going out of style, but recognize that you are in fact the one doing the reversing. Personally I do not find it any more difficult to parse through names whichever way they are written as long as clear rules are set, and that example of yours is hardly equivalent to the matter at hand.
How did she lose her blog post on a laptop?
Also, I'm starting to feel a bit worried about their relationship. Kasumi seems to put absolutely no care into it, only paying Sakurako lip-service when it gets her something she wants. On the other side, Sakurako seems overly self-sacrificing, oblivious or willing to ignore any faults on kasumi's part, and overly forceful with the relationship stuff. None of that his healthy.
"It simply makes no sense" except for reasons I just gave that you chose to sidestep, but whatever I guess. You keep using the word "reversed" like it is going out of style, but recognize that you are in fact the one doing the reversing. Personally I do not find it any more difficult to parse through names whichever way they are written as long as clear rules are set, and that example of yours is hardly equivalent to the matter at hand.
What reasons? "They don't do it to us" and "They dont change it in Korean/Chinese stuff"? Those aren't arguments, those are irrelevant anecdotes. Different cases can be treated differently, because it has nothing to do with each other. If they decide not to do it with one language, that doesn't change the fact it's more convenient. They are either just lazy or have specific reasons, unrelated to the current point.
From the viewpoint of the Western audience for which the localization is made, the Japanese name order is reversed. That is a fact. Because they still refer to them as first and last names, but they dont say them in the same order. If a Japanese person comes to America, they will not introduce themselves as "Sakamoto Yusuke", but "Yusuke Sakamoto".
It doesn't matter what you personally find more difficult, especially because you are probably very used to this from reading lots of online translations or watching subbed anime. For most newcomers or just average readers in the West, this kind of thing is inconvenient. The job of a localization is to make a translation as fluid as possible. If the reader has to wonder whether the name is a first or a last name, they probably failed. So just go by the convenient existing order in the coutnry you publish it in...
My example is equivalent in that both are "retaining the original format", but were changed for convenience. My example was hyperbolic on purpose.
Because they still refer to them as first and last names, but they dont say them in the same order.
It's more accurate to say that they say "family name" and "given name"
If a Japanese person comes to America, they will not introduce themselves as "Sakamoto Yusuke", but "Yusuke Sakamoto".
I've heard people introduce themselves both ways (East Asians and Westerners). My school has a Japanese exchange student, and he introduced himself normally (FamilyGiven) instead of reversing (GivenFamily), since he's used to that. Didn't create any confusion, and if it did, it would be resolved if you talk to him.
I don't live in the USA though, so I can't say anything about that.
last edited at Oct 29, 2018 7:12AM
Also, I'm starting to feel a bit worried about their relationship. Kasumi seems to put absolutely no care into it, only paying Sakurako lip-service when it gets her something she wants. On the other side, Sakurako seems overly self-sacrificing, oblivious or willing to ignore any faults on kasumi's part, and overly forceful with the relationship stuff. None of that his healthy.
I thought Kasumi was working 2 part time jobs to get the money to move with Sakurako once they graduated, or maybe I'm not remembering correctly?
In any case, Sakurako is not particularly self sacrificing, as she's kind of done with school already, read an entire library, and has not much else to do at the moment other than try to woo Kasumi, cook new recipes, and cook new recipes to try to woo Kasumi. If anything, this last chapter gave her a goal other than Kasumi in the form of her selected university course.
last edited at Oct 29, 2018 12:17PM
Also, I'm starting to feel a bit worried about their relationship. Kasumi seems to put absolutely no care into it, only paying Sakurako lip-service when it gets her something she wants. On the other side, Sakurako seems overly self-sacrificing, oblivious or willing to ignore any faults on kasumi's part, and overly forceful with the relationship stuff. None of that his healthy.
I thought Kasumi was working 2 part time jobs to get the money to move with Sakurako once they graduated, or maybe I'm not remembering correctly?
In any case, Sakurako is not particularly self sacrificing, as she's kind of done with school already, read an entire library, and has not much else to do at the moment other than try to woo Kasumi, cook new recipes, and cook new recipes to try to woo Kasumi. If anything, this last chapter gave her a goal other than Kasumi in the form of her selected university course.
If you think about it this is a yuri couple who are living a very traditional het type relationship with each other. Kasumi is the husband who works while Sakurako is the housewife. She just happens to be ridiculously brilliant so gets bored easy so she dotes extra on Kasumi.
Kasumi has basically worked from the start. She buys stuff when needed and stuff Sakurako wants like that oven thing for her birthday. She also buys stuff she thinks Sakurako needs like she bought her a phone after they got seperated that one time. Plus other stuff she buys/pays for that only get mentioned in passing. She also comforts Sakurako when she is upset or emotional in other words when she is scared or sakurako has a whim of something she wants to try where Kasumi will just go along with it to a degree. Like when Sakurako wanted to make a valentines cake and Kasumi ended up having to eat all her "failures".Just for some examples.
Sakurako is put simply the house wife who takes care of the home duties like cooking and cleaning and such and seeing to Kasumi's needs. The only twist is Sakurako is basically a genius and extremely competent at almost anything she does so she is left with a lot of free time because she doesn't have to spend time learning things. Think about that early on Sakurako talked about having limited funds but while being bored easily and having so much free time has never once tried to actually get a job herself.
If you made Kasumi a man this would be a sol series about the everyday happenings of a traditional Japanese married couple. Or even the same as a 1950s American married couple.
If a Japanese person comes to America, they will not introduce themselves as "Sakamoto Yusuke", but "Yusuke Sakamoto".
I've heard people introduce themselves both ways (East Asians and Westerners). My school has a Japanese exchange student, and he introduced himself normally (FamilyGiven) instead of reversing (GivenFamily), since he's used to that. Didn't create any confusion, and if it did, it would be resolved if you talk to him.
I don't live in the USA though, so I can't say anything about that.
I'm not talking about something as casual as a introduction at school. Of course you cant expect an exchange student to adapt so fast.
But in business, these kinds of formalities are essential.
Formal/official contexts tend to index by family name tho and treat given names as somewhat secondary considerations. And where I live it's plenty common for people to both introduce themselves and be addressed with family name first in colloquial speech...
Formal/official contexts tend to index by family name tho and treat given names as somewhat secondary considerations. And where I live it's plenty common for people to both introduce themselves and be addressed with family name first in colloquial speech...
Uh yeah... so that just means wherever you live handles it the same way as the Japanese do. Kind of irrelvant to the topic at hand, ain't it?
...no? Technically it's given name-family name as in all "Western" societies I'm aware of; in practice for pretty much all formal/official purposes family name comes first and is the more important one since that's what just about all records are indexed by, which AFAIK is the norm about everywhere anyway. And in less formal/bureaucratic use it's still polite to address strangers by the family name (again hardly unusual) so people often introduce themselves in reversed name order, and everyone can tell which are the given and family names anyway.
And anyone who gets a stick up their butt about it will be viewed as an OCD twat.
Kind of like if someone introduced themselves as "Smith, John" to you I daresay you would have no problems whatsoever deciphering the meaning...
As an aside it isn't exactly an unusual practice for Western publishers to simply include a primer page which explains the name order and suffixes for the benefit of newcomers to imported Japanese manga. And while that doesn't quite work for anime it REALLY shouldn't be too hard for the audience to figure out the basics to the degree they know what's going on; I see no virtue in losing nuances solely for the sake of dumbing everything down to the level of the absolute lowest common (Anglo-American) denominator who can't wrap his head around the idea of some things being done a bit differently in other corners of the world.
And for the sake of comparison it's not like say US media gets localized for differences in education system organization when exported elsewhere, ergo I have to try to remember which order the whole sophomore-freshman-senior-junior thing was in again ('round here we just refer to high-schoolers and equivalents by which of the 3 years they're in)...
@random
- Just addressing someone by family/last name is irrelevant to the topic. And I never heard anybody legitimately introduce themselves in reverse order before. That is probably a cultural difference, which is why I said you handle it closer to the Japanese. That's usually a corny line you'd associate with James Bond. Nobody does that.
- If someone introduced themselves like that with a foreign name, you damn well probably don't know which one's the first or last name, now do you?
- You are being hysterical. Literally nothing is lost, not a single nuance, by reversing the order. N-o-t-h-i-n-g. You are projecting other localization issues on something that is not like it.
- I don't understand the US school system either. I have no idea what you expect though, the translation is for the American market where they know what it means. If you want something that makes it equivalent to your education system wait for it to get translated into your language. Or if you live in an English speaking country where it's not treated the same, tough luck. You are the one who says people should be able to adapt to foreign concepts.
last edited at Nov 1, 2018 12:36PM
For Heaven's sake will you people shut up? Your tangent is completely irrelevant here. If you absolutely HAVE to argue it because you can't live without arguing about things, please take it somewhere else.
Going to agree here that the name order thing has gotten way too off topic. Please take it somewhere else.
Daily lives of highschool wives.
That's a brilliant one-phrase summary. Especially because it rhymes.
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The Kohai pair is gay, but Sakurako and Kasumi outgay them in every possible way
They pretty much out gay every lesbian pair no matter what series it is.
Sakurako isn't even trying be subtle about her crush on Kasumi at this point.
There is no way Kasumi doesn't fully realize Sakurako is in love with her. It is just a matter of displaying her own feelings openly on a regular basis clearly.
Sakurako might know all the vocab, but she doesn't know the word 'subtle' at all.
Japanese people in old days never used sweet words (current Japanese either) such as "I love you." and so on. So, when Sosuke Natsume translated "I love you" to Japanese, he recommended that it be said that "月がきれいですね" - Tsuki ga kirei desune (means that the moon tonight is beautiful, isn't it?)
In his opinion, when you are with a women you love and said "the moon is beautiful, isn't it?" to her, it is as valuable as saying "I love you."
Sakurako continues to be the gayest person ever, which I am totally down for.
Awwww.
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/a_room_for_two_ch33#4
Sakurako continues to be the gayest person ever, which I am totally down for.
There aren't enough 'Gaaaaay~~!' gifs and reactions for this page and that girl.
I fucking love it. ♥
Japanese people in old days never used sweet words (current Japanese either) such as "I love you." and so on. So, when Sosuke Natsume translated "I love you" to Japanese, he recommended that it be said that "月がきれいですね" - Tsuki ga kirei desune (means that the moon tonight is beautiful, isn't it?)
In his opinion, when you are with a women you love and said "the moon is beautiful, isn't it?" to her, it is as valuable as saying "I love you."
Not only did Sakurako invoke that deliberately, she then pointed out the summer triangle, which is also part of one of the most famous love stories in Japanese myth.
last edited at Nov 7, 2018 9:36PM
Sakurako, the smooth operator, went for the Tsuki double entendre. Sadly, her wife is as dumb as she's pretty