Forum › Even If It Was Just Once, I Regret It discussion

Img_0186
joined Jul 18, 2020

Japanese society is more conservative than American society

You couldn't live under this impression for ten days inside Japan without realising that it's a stereotype fabricated by a hostile foreign media that drives sales/clicks with attention-grabbing nonsense about how weird and controversial Japan is in ways that don't actually reflect reality. While Japan surely has its share of conservatism, the idea that it's more conservative than the U.S. is absurd.

Abe, while a conservative through and through, is surely to the left of Obama, for example, and Japan has never elected someone as openly far-right as Trump. The thing is that foreign media portrays Japan with an absolutely absurd Overton window. The JMSDF is maybe thinking about building an aircraft carrier? That must be far-right nationalism! Except, you know, pacifism as a national policy is extremely far left and shifting slightly to the right leaves you far, far left of Obama killing innocent civilians with missile strikes at countries the U.S. isn't even at war with (not to mention, you know, actually being in imperialist wars halfway across the world - also not a progressive thing!).

Prominent Japanese politician visits Yasukuni? More far-right nationalism! Except it's normal to honour your war dead - the U.S. does it too, and there are plenty of war criminals in U.S. graves. The only difference is that the U.S. won the war, and only the victor is able to persecute the loser for war crimes - nobody cares about their own war crimes. In fact, the U.S. is not even party to the International Criminal Court, and went so far as passing a bill authorising the invasion of the Netherlands if the Hague ever attempted to hold U.S. servicemen accountable for war crimes.

If you actually compare Japanese policies on anything to equivalent policies in the U.S., rather than holding them to some mythical standard that you don't meet yourself, there's no way you could come to such a conclusion as Japan being more conservative than the U.S.. Whether it's on healthcare, education, welfare, religion, the police, the military, gun ownership, international diplomacy, or minority rights, Japan has more progressive policies than the U.S. Virtually the only thing you could give the U.S. a point for is the legalisation of gay marriage, but in general Japanese society is much less openly hostile to gay people and was/is far ahead of the U.S. in other areas such as transgender rights.

Literally when did I say it was a uniquely Japanese thing?

"Japan is so weird!" - you're calling attention to Japan doing it, and by calling it weird implying it's not normal by definition, i.e., that it stands out from other countries uniquely. But to the contrary, it would be more weird / not-normal if Japanese media didn't feature problematic depictions of relationships, because problematic depictions of relationships in fiction are the norm around the world.

If you keep seeing weird rape stuff in manga, I think it's only natural to think "maybe Japanese culture has an issue with consent". Or maybe if you wanted to be more diplomatic you could say "maybe Japanese culture thinks about consent differently than America culture does"

Wonderful, you're really going for the Japan gawking bingo sheet blackout. Does Japanese culture have an issue with consent? The whole world does. Does Japanese culture have a uniquely bad issue with consent worthy of singling out? The US elected someone who brags about getting away with being a rapist president, appointed a rapist supreme court justice, and even the presidential candidate opposing the rapist president is probably a rapist too because the US's so-called left could never stomach a candidate that wasn't right-wing by international standards.

Meanwhile, a governmental body of the United Kingdom conducting a review of the police recently released a critical report stating that rape has been virtually decriminalized by virtue of the fact that the police no longer investigate rape, with less than 1.5% (and falling!) of reported cases being prosecuted. I'll take some shitty portrayals of consent (or lack thereof) in fiction over that any day.

But seriously, you realize "Not All Japanese" is implied when people make broad generalizations like that, right? Do you really want people to say "Not All Men" whenever they complain about hating men?

This analogy to 'Not All Men' doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. It's a complete non-sequiter. Nobody said anything about not all Japanese people being like that. My complaint is that you specifically singled out Japanese culture as being worse than your own country in regards to portrayals of abuse and consent, when it's really not. It's not that you made a generalisation that's the problem - it's that your generalisation is just wrong, not on an individual level but on a collective level.

It's frankly not worth my time to go tit for tat with you anymore.

Hope Japan sees this, bro

Murcielago_reiko
joined Dec 9, 2019

I dunno guys, the title is literally “Even If It Was Just Once, I Regret It”. Landlady obviously feels really guilty about having sex with her drunk and can’t imagine that Kozuka would ever actually like her outside of the weird contract (but the contract’s existence itself is pretty sus too tbh, like, romantic/sexual favors for rent is pretty yikes on an abuse of power level no matter how nice you are about it, why does Japan always seem so weird about that kind of thing).

To be honest, I sympathize with much of firelizard's arguments here (I decided to quote their first opening about the topic).

It's fair to judge a society based on a media said society consumes. Manga, or even anime, is a staple of, and in, Japan. And these are just one of the many media of storytelling Japanese culture has.

For instance, the Japanese YouTuber "Nobita from Japan" featured a story about how cheating or ntr is a favorite premise in so many Japanese drama and even in manga/anime (that, despite a couple of disclaimers he mentioned at the start of the video). He also laid out the reasons why, beyond the movies and the TV shows, cheating seems to be more common in the Japanese society than expected. Nobita-san was kind of surprised when the women he interviewed were actually okay with it.
(NOTE: just cuz I said "common in the Japanese society than expected" doesn't mean cheating is solely a Japanese problem, as Nobita-san pointed out in the video. Personally, seems to me it thrives where conservative attitudes are alive with the tendency to make sex taboo.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzNKTAv5fyA

firelizard said: "abuse of power level no matter how nice you are about it, why does Japan always seem so weird about that kind of thing"

It does seem like a pejorative attack on a complex culture IF YOUR KNEE JERK REACTION is to be defensive about a cultural flaw that exists in reality. firelizard isn't wrong, it's just that, something's lacking in the sentence. How? We can tie this to Nobita-san's exposition on cheating as seemingly accepted part in the inner-lives of the Japanese. Check out the stats he provided. He also said the cheating sites and apps exist in Japan (these also exist in North America btw, remember that Ashley Madison scandal?)

Japan is weird about some stuff cuz as a largely conservative culture (like any other conservative culture), it deems sex as taboo. Part of taboo-fication is sex as a power-play with abuse instead of a consensual one. NOW, is this a Japanese society problem? YES. Is this endemic only in Japan? NO. Does this mean that there are elements in Japan who are fighting against this trend? YES.

To be fair, there are tons of mangaka who don't operate on that kind of taboo-fication. I think the best example would be Cano and Nakatani Nio. For me, Cano enjoys their poly-relationships but in a healthy and comedic way, as seen in the manga with a long title I'll just name it as "Triangle". In YagaKimi, Yuu actively undermines Touko's desire for control; a control which could lead to Touko's self-destruction had Yuu not intervened. Here, we saw how the usual comphet of senpai-kouhai powerplay turned on its head in the context of a lesbian relationship.

last edited at Aug 10, 2020 5:33AM

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

It’s pretty clear to me that the trope that (some of) the fanfic folks call “dub-con” (“dubious consent”) is pretty common in Japanese popular culture, especially romance-type manga and anime, where it often appears in comedic contexts.

https://fanlore.org/wiki/Dub-con

(Please, all the arguments, and then some, about the relationship between real-life and fictional consent/coercion can be found at the above link; there’s no need to rehash them here.)

Speaking here only of fictional contexts, it makes a kind of sense that in certain situations, including ones where cultural norms and assumptions militate against the expression of forbidden desires, characters would unconsciously yearn to be (or at least accept being) “forced” or “coerced” into doing something that is ordinarily taboo.

The big difference between fiction and real-life, of course, is that authors can give us access to the thoughts, feelings, and desires of all the characters, establishing their motivations and reactions. That’s why (to me) the arguments that “if this were real life, such-and-such action would be [some version of Not OK/criminal/abusive, etc.],” while often quite true, are of limited use in analyzing fictional narratives.

(Again, see the link above for the discussion of why “dub-con” is not (repeat: not) a useful concept when applied to real-life).

joined Oct 23, 2016

I came to look at how sad everyone felt for landlady thinking the confession was fake, only to see a thread on politics and other serious shit.

Like guys, calm down, its just a manga and a cute one at that. Leave that shit for a reddit thread. Ya'll killing the whole vibe.

last edited at Aug 11, 2020 1:48PM

Img_20190727_095038
joined Oct 28, 2016

This chapter, angst. Aaaangst. AAAANGSTT

joined Sep 6, 2018

This manga is actually super exciting because of how... real, it feels, for lack of a better word. Like, so many of the developments and emotions feel very earned, and so I can 100% get on board with them. Which is making the sort of unexpected blossomings of romantic and sexual attraction out of what appeared to be a cozy chill yuri with a very basic, consistent conceit satisfying (and... pretty hot ngl). It feels like it's breaking genre expectations, and the moments where it stands out (that handholding scene, and now recently, MC pinning miss landlady and thinking "I want to mess her up) sort of break past my jaded yuri barrier so that I feel like a teenager first discovering there's manga with girls kissing (and maybe doing more?)

I completely understand how people might be squicked out by the real-world implications of this manga, and I think that's a totally legitimate reaction and criticism to draw toward this series, but the writing, the art, and how they set up the relationship and play with expectations is next level. This is some good shit.

joined Apr 16, 2020

The big difference between fiction and real-life, of course, is that authors can give us access to the thoughts, feelings, and desires of all the characters, establishing their motivations and reactions. That’s why (to me) the arguments that “if this were real life, such-and-such action would be [some version of Not OK/criminal/abusive, etc.],” while often quite true, are of limited use in analyzing fictional narratives.

Even in a real world setting, there are people who will tell you they don't feel coerced or violated even though their friends would say otherwise. Are their feelings less valid than what their friends think or are they supposed to feel what their friends think? Obviously we can't do the above quote in real life, we can only be that friend; and we'll never understand another person's mechanisms unless we are them.

Imgres
joined Sep 23, 2013

A lot of words...this manga has created controversies since the beginning. I really like this manga and its a bit sad that landlady does not acknowledge Kozuka’s feelings

Abf0f26d7e26c863e98b16c5a531ec9d
joined Oct 9, 2019

This is getting more spicy.....I LIKE IT

Aoi%20nagisa%20-%20s
joined Aug 17, 2012

Love the latest chapter and how the story is progressing

Screenshot%20(107)
joined Dec 27, 2014

yes yes yes to all of this

2020-01-15-22_00_11-screenshot
joined Jul 31, 2019

The chapter was cute and all, but I can't help but be baffled by this panel:

I know it's probably supposed to be someone's legs but I swear the more I look at it, the less sense it makes, it looks more like some sort of sleeping aquatic creature with a weird hat

(y)
joined Jan 9, 2017

The chapter was cute and all, but I can't help but be baffled by this panel:

I know it's probably supposed to be someone's legs but I swear the more I look at it, the less sense it makes, it looks more like some sort of sleeping aquatic creature with a weird hat

Looks like an ant eater

20210117_162235_copy_326x400
joined Aug 19, 2020

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/even_if_it_was_just_once_i_regret_it_ch13#15

Scissor me timbers!

Scissor me timbers indeed lmao, I was wonderin why the author made Miss Landlady sit like that to hold down her feet, cuz usually you'd be faced the other way to sit on someone's feet to hold em down, it was all for the ecchi chefs kiss I hope we get to see them reenact that for real in a chapter sometime.

Img_0053
joined Sep 19, 2017

Just please, moreeeeee

Profile%20picture
joined Jan 23, 2020

The chapter was cute and all, but I can't help but be baffled by this panel:

I know it's probably supposed to be someone's legs but I swear the more I look at it, the less sense it makes, it looks more like some sort of sleeping aquatic creature with a weird hat

plushie?

C6ecb18a42241236b33d8a43252bfaf1
joined Apr 30, 2020

That was just your normal safe for work exercising. Nothing sexual at all.

Neneavysmall
joined May 20, 2013

Ch. 13: Feet

joined Aug 21, 2020

Don't you hate it when you're just doing sit ups with your pal and you start accidentally scissoring?

Yokoe
joined Nov 24, 2017

Don't you hate it when you're just doing sit ups with your pal and you start accidentally scissoring?

Wait, you're supposed to make it look like an accident?

2020-01-15-22_00_11-screenshot
joined Jul 31, 2019

The chapter was cute and all, but I can't help but be baffled by this panel:

I know it's probably supposed to be someone's legs but I swear the more I look at it, the less sense it makes, it looks more like some sort of sleeping aquatic creature with a weird hat

plushie?

... oh yeah it is a plushie, I can see it in previous chapters now :P never mind then

joined Jul 26, 2016

Kozuka: too stupid to Twice Shy
Landlady: too stupid to not Twice Shy

useless lesbians at their finest

joined Sep 6, 2018

(Ch. 13) I hope we don’t get into a holding pattern of rom-com hijinx now. Or actually, maybe that would be a good thing: I think the author is trying to re-establish the new state of their relationship as familiar, but this time with a lot more sexual tension, so when the next Big Thing really does happen, we’ll get some really hot payoff again.

Pero01
joined Apr 1, 2014

We can say this count as sex...right?

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