Add to this that we're dealing with Japan here, where "normal" rules supreme. From the start, even while struggling with her reaction towards men and trying to find love, the true focus for her has been on the need to fit in, to be "normal". While she's starting to realize that she can find some happiness being with Satou, she isn't really thinking any deeper about the reasons yet. Leaving the date to be with her was just her first real act of rebellion, breaking away from what's expected of her and following her own feelings, but it'll take more than this to fully realize the depth of them.

As beautiful as the moon is, the most important word is still missing from that line.

Me in the last couple of pages of chapter 5:

It's ending already? But this was so good. "This is I'll Cheer On My Yuri Onee-Chan" all over again. Great writing with an extremely abrupt ending. I can't believe this. Why would the author do this? Well, I guess when I think about it, maybe she told everything she already wanted to tell. She showed that this character is finally figuring out how to make herself happy. She doesn't want to drag it out to the point where we will get sick of it and stop reading. She wants to leave the ending open to interpretation because the ending we come up with will be happier than anything she could write. I mean, we at least got 5 great chapters of reasonable length. I guess in the end, it's just better for some stories to stay short and let us figure out the rest.

Turns to last page:

OH THANK GOD!!! I really didn't want this to end.

Me in the last couple of pages of chapter 5:

It's ending already? But this was so good. "This is I'll Cheer On My Yuri Onee-Chan" all over again. Great writing with an extremely abrupt ending. I can't believe this. Why would the author do this? Well, I guess when I think about it, maybe she told everything she already wanted to tell. She showed that this character is finally figuring out how to make herself happy. She doesn't want to drag it out to the point where we will get sick of it and stop reading. She wants to leave the ending open to interpretation because the ending we come up with will be happier than anything she could write. I mean, we at least got 5 great chapters of reasonable length. I guess in the end, it's just better for some stories to stay short and let us figure out the rest.

Turns to last page:

OH THANK GOD!!! I really didn't want this to end.

Was reading this and halfway thru it scared me. Thought this series had ended fo real. Read all the way down and I sighed with relief.

Dis good. Some of the looks of a A Tropical Fish Yearns for Snow but actual stuff happens.

Dis good. Some of the looks of a A Tropical Fish Yearns for Snow but actual stuff happens.

Friendship intensifie

For a second I thought that the story might end here with an ambiguous hook up. I glad it didn't. I just hope it isn't heading for some bullshit het ending like Uno's friendship with Satou gives Uno the confidence to date men properly. At this point I don't think so, but it wouldn't be the first time a yuri story had a Whiskey Tango Foxtrot het ending.

Usui Shito does have 5 other yuri manga on here, with varying levels of explicitness.

I'm just just saying I'd rather it end here, like this this, than it go a bunch more chapters Then have it turn out that Uno and Satou's friendship was just the catalyst to bring Satou out of her shell, and give Uno self respect, so she can finally fall in love. If I read 12+ chapters just to have the take away to be Uno hooking up with Sakagami-kun, and Satou befriending the other office ladies, it would feel like a real stab in the back.

That fear seems relatively unfounded given how blatantly in love Hinako is with Satou.

I agree my fear is highly unlikely, given that this story most assuredly is about Uno discovering her true sexuality, However I've read stories that I thought were cut and dried yuri, that suddenly took an inexplicable het turn before.
I do think we are heading for at least one awkward Uno/Sakagami-kun date before the story is over. (Edit My bet is she will actually go out with him for a while. All along struggling with her growing feelings for Satou.)

last edited at Jan 22, 2020 10:48PM

For as well written as I find Uno-san - and I really do think she's incredibly well realized as a character, especially for a manga with a fairly cliche premise - I'm still not sold on Satou. She doesn't feel nearly as well written or realized or developed. I know we're only 5 chapters in so there's presumably still a lot of room for her to grow, but whether Satou is gay, or dense, or knows more than she lets on, if she likes Uno-san (she does), if she knows she likes Uno-san, etc. etc. I really hope she grows as a character soon.

Her sister, on the other hand? Great so far.

For as well written as I find Uno-san - and I really do think she's incredibly well realized as a character, especially for a manga with a fairly cliche premise - I'm still not sold on Satou. She doesn't feel nearly as well written or realized or developed. I know we're only 5 chapters in so there's presumably still a lot of room for her to grow, but whether Satou is gay, or dense, or knows more than she lets on, if she likes Uno-san (she does), if she knows she likes Uno-san, etc. etc. I really hope she grows as a character soon.

Her sister, on the other hand? Great so far.

I think Satou is gay, and out to her sister, but resigned herself to the single life. Why? I don't know.

For as well written as I find Uno-san - and I really do think she's incredibly well realized as a character, especially for a manga with a fairly cliche premise - I'm still not sold on Satou. She doesn't feel nearly as well written or realized or developed. I know we're only 5 chapters in so there's presumably still a lot of room for her to grow, but whether Satou is gay, or dense, or knows more than she lets on, if she likes Uno-san (she does), if she knows she likes Uno-san, etc. etc. I really hope she grows as a character soon.

Her sister, on the other hand? Great so far.

I think Satou is gay, and out to her sister, but resigned herself to the single life. Why? I don't know.

Probablty something to do with her dead parents and not bringing problems to Subaru, and focusing on rasing her

I REALLY LIKE WHERE THIS IS GOING

Probablty something to do with her dead parents and not bringing problems to Subaru, and focusing on rasing her

That's my interpretation as well. She's cast her own desires aside and dedicated herself to making her sister happy in what would normally be a pretty tragic upbringing. It reminds me of (3 Gatsu no Lion minor spoilers) Akari becoming the de facto mother of her two sisters, resulting in her not having much of a private life outside of her family.

This strikes me as a bizarre reading—Hinako is attracted to a woman for the first time. The fact that the words “gay” or “lesbian” aren’t foregrounded hardly makes her romantic attraction to a woman “subtextual.”

I'm sorry, like, I dunno how many times I can say this explicitly? I never said her attraction to Satou was subtextual. I said Hinako being a gay person is subtextual.

I absolutely under no circumstances think she won't end up in a romance with Satou. I'm talking about her general identity and romance patterns.

Sure, but the point is that she doesn't even consider it.
When all you worry about is dating someone of the opposite sex and you chicken out every time at the last moment and the last few days all you can think of is someone of the same sex and still the word "gay" doesn't come to mind?? Twenty years ago, that would have been odd. Today it is, let's say, difficult. So I really expect the "big reveal" next episode. If not, still a good manga, but a bit silly.

Thanks, this is exactly what I mean, phrased more concisely. I'd add, her general issues are so related to being gay ("Forcing myself to be a normal woman isn't working!"), I have a hard time imagining her overcoming those issues without, at some point, confronting her sexuality.

Add to this that we're dealing with Japan here, where "normal" rules supreme. From the start, even while struggling with her reaction towards men and trying to find love, the true focus for her has been on the need to fit in, to be "normal". While she's starting to realize that she can find some happiness being with Satou, she isn't really thinking any deeper about the reasons yet. Leaving the date to be with her was just her first real act of rebellion, breaking away from what's expected of her and following her own feelings, but it'll take more than this to fully realize the depth of them.

Well, but this is kind of my point. Would Japanese readers be more likely to find it rude to talk about the specific way you're not normal, even in a story that celebrates not being normal? That is, the yuri readers want yuri, but they might bristle at talking about that stuff out loud? If it's just an ineffable "I like sempai even though we're both girls!" then it's ambiguous and vague. If it's "yo what's up I'm a lesbian," it makes things concrete.

They gay

Moooooon~

Woah was the last image where she says the moon is beautiful the same thing in Japanese where they say the moon is beautiful as an indirect way of saying I love you? Or am I being too much of a weeb reading into it

I'm sorry, like, I dunno how many times I can say this explicitly? I never said her attraction to Satou was subtextual. I said Hinako being a gay person is subtextual.

I absolutely under no circumstances think she won't end up in a romance with Satou. I'm talking about her general identity and romance patterns.
Thanks, this is exactly what I mean, phrased more concisely. I'd add, her general issues are so related to being gay ("Forcing myself to be a normal woman isn't working!"), I have a hard time imagining her overcoming those issues without, at some point, confronting her sexuality.

Well, but this is kind of my point. Would Japanese readers be more likely to find it rude to talk about the specific way you're not normal, even in a story that celebrates not being normal? That is, the yuri readers want yuri, but they might bristle at talking about that stuff out loud? If it's just an ineffable "I like sempai even though we're both girls!" then it's ambiguous and vague. If it's "yo what's up I'm a lesbian," it makes things concrete.

You have to keep in mind that the premise is set in Japan with a "typical" japanese woman as main character.
Japan isn't anywhere near big on LGBTQ knowledge, it's entirely plausible for the thought of being explicitly lesbian to have never even occurred to her, realistic even. Over there, being any kind of alternate sexuality is a very foreign concept that's more associated with the western world and normal japanese people rarely run in to it in real life.

The whole idea of the story is that a "normal" woman starts a journey of self-discovery (prompted by encountering another woman who makes her incredibly happy to be around for some reason) and slowly coming to understand herself better as she is rather than as what she thought she had to be according to society and the people around her.

Her character's entire conflict is that she's been obsessed with being "normal" and finding "normal happiness", the only reason she's breaking away from it now is that she's had enough experience to conclude that she's "too broken to be normal" and it's prompted her to re-evaluate herself and her views. If anything it would be very odd for her character to conclude something as outlandish as "maybe I'm gay" without some very drastic cause.

For as well written as I find Uno-san - and I really do think she's incredibly well realized as a character, especially for a manga with a fairly cliche premise - I'm still not sold on Satou. She doesn't feel nearly as well written or realized or developed. I know we're only 5 chapters in so there's presumably still a lot of room for her to grow, but whether Satou is gay, or dense, or knows more than she lets on, if she likes Uno-san (she does), if she knows she likes Uno-san, etc. etc. I really hope she grows as a character soon.

Her sister, on the other hand? Great so far.

I think Satou is gay, and out to her sister, but resigned herself to the single life. Why? I don't know.

Probablty something to do with her dead parents and not bringing problems to Subaru, and focusing on rasing her

Yeah I figure it's something along that line too. But I don't like jumping to conclusions. A lot of times manga characters' motives end up being way less staight forward than I would have expected.
I really hope to see Subaru play match maker more. I nearly died laughing when she suggested wrecking Uno's date.

I'm sorry, like, I dunno how many times I can say this explicitly? I never said her attraction to Satou was subtextual. I said Hinako being a gay person is subtextual.

I absolutely under no circumstances think she won't end up in a romance with Satou. I'm talking about her general identity and romance patterns.
Thanks, this is exactly what I mean, phrased more concisely. I'd add, her general issues are so related to being gay ("Forcing myself to be a normal woman isn't working!"), I have a hard time imagining her overcoming those issues without, at some point, confronting her sexuality.

Well, but this is kind of my point. Would Japanese readers be more likely to find it rude to talk about the specific way you're not normal, even in a story that celebrates not being normal? That is, the yuri readers want yuri, but they might bristle at talking about that stuff out loud? If it's just an ineffable "I like sempai even though we're both girls!" then it's ambiguous and vague. If it's "yo what's up I'm a lesbian," it makes things concrete.

You have to keep in mind that the premise is set in Japan with a "typical" japanese woman as main character.
Japan isn't anywhere near big on LGBTQ knowledge, it's entirely plausible for the thought of being explicitly lesbian to have never even occurred to her, realistic even. Over there, being any kind of alternate sexuality is a very foreign concept that's more associated with the western world and normal japanese people rarely run in to it in real life.

The whole idea of the story is that a "normal" woman starts a journey of self-discovery (prompted by encountering another woman who makes her incredibly happy to be around for some reason) and slowly coming to understand herself better as she is rather than as what she thought she had to be according to society and the people around her.

Her character's entire conflict is that she's been obsessed with being "normal" and finding "normal happiness", the only reason she's breaking away from it now is that she's had enough experience to conclude that she's "too broken to be normal" and it's prompted her to re-evaluate herself and her views. If anything it would be very odd for her character to conclude something as outlandish as "maybe I'm gay" without some very drastic cause.

A while back I read a rather large collection of autobiographical short stories, about the authors' first time experience with another woman. I was absolutely shocked how many women were in their thirties and forties with comlpetely no clue they could be attracted to another woman. there was even one story written by a woman in her sixties.

This strikes me as a bizarre reading—Hinako is attracted to a woman for the first time. The fact that the words “gay” or “lesbian” aren’t foregrounded hardly makes her romantic attraction to a woman “subtextual.”

I'm sorry, like, I dunno how many times I can say this explicitly? I never said her attraction to Satou was subtextual. I said Hinako being a gay person is subtextual.

I absolutely under no circumstances think she won't end up in a romance with Satou. I'm talking about her general identity and romance patterns.

Sure, but the point is that she doesn't even consider it.
When all you worry about is dating someone of the opposite sex and you chicken out every time at the last moment and the last few days all you can think of is someone of the same sex and still the word "gay" doesn't come to mind?? Twenty years ago, that would have been odd. Today it is, let's say, difficult. So I really expect the "big reveal" next episode. If not, still a good manga, but a bit silly.

Thanks, this is exactly what I mean, phrased more concisely. I'd add, her general issues are so related to being gay ("Forcing myself to be a normal woman isn't working!"), I have a hard time imagining her overcoming those issues without, at some point, confronting her sexuality.

Your objection doesn’t get any less bizarre to me the more often you rephrase it. To return to your original statement of the problem, you seem to think that it’s some kind of ideological problem with the story that Hinako, who is defined by a remarkable degree of emotional repression and commitment to a rigid degree of “normality” even by Japanese standards, doesn’t consciously think to herself, “Gee, these dates with men leave me strangely unmoved, perhaps I am a lesbian,” since this would constitute “confronting her sexuality.”

The fact that multiple people here report parallel experiences to Hinako’s in far less repressive cultural milieu than Japan’s suggests to me that the mere uttering of the phrases “gay” or “lesbian” doesn’t have nearly the magical consequences you’re ascribing to them.

A while back I read a rather large collection of autobiographical short stories, about the authors' first time experience with another woman. I was absolutely shocked how many women were in their thirties and forties with comlpetely no clue they could be attracted to another woman. there was even one story written by a woman in her sixties.

Would you happen to remember the title of the book? Or was it on the net somewhere?

A while back I read a rather large collection of autobiographical short stories, about the authors' first time experience with another woman. I was absolutely shocked how many women were in their thirties and forties with comlpetely no clue they could be attracted to another woman. there was even one story written by a woman in her sixties.

Would you happen to remember the title of the book? Or was it on the net somewhere?

There was a series of books. They were called Early Embraces. I still have one. There was another book called Awakening the Virgin. A series of autobiographical stories, by lesbians who gave women their first same sex encounter. I got them off Amazon, but I haven't seen them listed in years.

Edit: Honestly I would not trust the origins of anything I found on the internet. I pretty sure most of the lesbian sex stuff on the internet is just the fantasy of some poor lonely guy, no matter how much they insists it's writen by a woman.

Edit2: The stories are well writen, at least they seemed that way to me. This site is cottening me to the fact that the definition of well writen is subjective.

last edited at Jan 23, 2020 4:25AM

focusing on rasing her

rasing

Obligatory reminder that you absolutely should not make this specific typo in front of a member of the r/civbattleroyale community (especially given how prone to razing cities many civs proved to be in the early episodes of CBRX).

Woah was the last image where she says the moon is beautiful the same thing in Japanese where they say the moon is beautiful as an indirect way of saying I love you? Or am I being too much of a weeb reading into it

It's certainly at the very least a reference to that, in my opinion, but at the same time avoiding actually saying it by omitting "moon".

For as well written as I find Uno-san - and I really do think she's incredibly well realized as a character, especially for a manga with a fairly cliche premise - I'm still not sold on Satou. She doesn't feel nearly as well written or realized or developed. I know we're only 5 chapters in so there's presumably still a lot of room for her to grow, but whether Satou is gay, or dense, or knows more than she lets on, if she likes Uno-san (she does), if she knows she likes Uno-san, etc. etc. I really hope she grows as a character soon.

Her sister, on the other hand? Great so far.

I think Satou is gay, and out to her sister, but resigned herself to the single life. Why? I don't know.

I dunno, the way she says "Hinako-san" here really feels to me like someone who has just caught on to something juicy. I'm open to being proved wrong, but right now I feel like that was the moment she realized the "Uno-san" her sister was so into was a woman.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/crescent_moon_and_doughnuts_ch03#10

And jesus I continue to adore the best little sister in all of manga. "Alright, let's go wreck it!"

(Edit: It helps, when referencing a scene, if you remember to post the link. -_-; )

last edited at Jan 23, 2020 9:16AM

A while back I read a rather large collection of autobiographical short stories, about the authors' first time experience with another woman. I was absolutely shocked how many women were in their thirties and forties with comlpetely no clue they could be attracted to another woman. there was even one story written by a woman in her sixties.

Would you happen to remember the title of the book? Or was it on the net somewhere?

There was a series of books. They were called Early Embraces. I still have one. There was another book called Awakening the Virgin. A series of autobiographical stories, by lesbians who gave women their first same sex encounter. I got them off Amazon, but I haven't seen them listed in years.

Edit: Honestly I would not trust the origins of anything I found on the internet. I pretty sure most of the lesbian sex stuff on the internet is just the fantasy of some poor lonely guy, no matter how much they insists it's writen by a woman.

Edit2: The stories are well writen, at least they seemed that way to me. This site is cottening me to the fact that the definition of well writen is subjective.

Thanks! And I agree with you about the net as a source on topics like this.