Forum › Nettaigyo wa Yuki ni Kogareru discussion

Img-20190201-wa0005
joined Sep 21, 2015

Sorry but... the girl wasn't an alchoholic or anything... it was just a glass of a drink... maybe that was WAY TOO OVERDRAMATIC?

Ms_icon
joined Nov 3, 2018

To be fair to Koyuki, it was her first time ever out with "friends". She wasn't going to know how to behave socially.

joined Mar 29, 2019

I feel like the author's entire MO is, they can't be lovers, like the poster before me said, but anything else is okay, and the story practically breaks its back to get there.

They're just SEVERELY lonely I guess, and Konatsu's entire character has been changed for a false narrative where she's jealous of Honami-senpai. Ugh.

We're seriously in a depression arc because it just can't ever be yuri, it's really weird. I mean, I expect this in western media all the time. Every single excuse is made as long as someone doesn't cross the line from heteronormativity, but in this instance I find it quite sad.

Japanese media intrigues me because it embraces 'otherness'. Whereas in western media it's subsumed into all normativity, except that character is now 'weird'. 'Weird', ha ha. ]:

Or crazy, more like.

Well anyways, author put this story through the grinder just to point out that Konatsu is now emotionally unhealthy levels of lonely all because Honami befriended a few people, even though she was healthy emotionally in the last arc.

I feel like I got whiplash from how fast Konatsu fell into the ether.

joined Oct 5, 2016

It just seems weird though, because early on the whole point of them seeking out each other specifically was that they -weren't- just lonely. Konatsu asks herself why she's obsessing over this one girl instead of just hanging out with her classmates if she's so lonely, and she doesn't have an answer.

Like up until this arc the character development and writing was great, and it was subtle and rewarded close reading. And then we get to this arc and I don't get why the characters are making their decisions or doing what they're doing.

BeanBeanKingdom
Ms_icon
joined Nov 3, 2018

That's the point though, Konatsu is being selfish. She's not acting the way she is out of a need for Koyuki's companionship caused by her own loneliness, she has Kaede and other friends to avoid feeling lonely. The issue is that she subconsciously grew fond of being Koyuki's only friend and confidant and once Koyuki managed to start making other friends (spurred on by Konatsu herself at that), Konatsu lost that special placement and is now trying to get her back under her "control" even though she knows she shouldn't.

It's pretty obvious when you consider the Salamander short story and see how the author keeps placing the frog and salamander metaphorically around the two girls. The frog is the character who initially lives freely, ends up entering the salamander's cave and gets trapped there by it because its presence eases the salamander's loneliness, even though the salamander knows that keeping the frog trapped will make it lonely as well. The initial setup of the story likened Konatsu to the frog and Koyuki to the salamander since the former was the one who ended up involved with the latter's aquarium club and stuck around to ease her loneliness. Now the metaphor has been flipped (ever since Konatsu saw Koyuki and Kaede walking around) so that Koyuki is the frog who would normally be free with her new friends and Konatsu is the salamander who wants to keep her trapped against her best interests.

Of course I'm oversimplifying things and it's only a partial analysis based on the current point in the story, but that's the gist of it and I don't think I'm off the mark due to all the visual metaphors.

joined Dec 3, 2018

It simply means that the author is rejecting.labels.

Except the author was more than happy to label it "girlship" and "not yuri". She seems to love labels.

herenowforever
joined Feb 11, 2018

Sorry but... the girl wasn't an alchoholic or anything... it was just a glass of a drink... maybe that was WAY TOO OVERDRAMATIC?

Drinking age in Japan is still 20, and Koyuki is the class rep, so she'd also bear some responsibility for it, if it became a mess after the establishment called the group on that. Of course, she was also socially anxious and bothered by all the fuss around her.

What's even more funny is that while age of legal adulthood is going to be lowered to 18 in 2022, tobacco and alcohol are still legal only once you are 20 after that. :)

last edited at Oct 3, 2019 9:46AM

Adashima%20%207q
joined Mar 29, 2019

Bless you BeanBeanKingdom for all your Nettaigyo posts~
also nice profile pic! it reminds me that I want to go and finish Katrielle's anime

BeanBeanKingdom
Ms_icon
joined Nov 3, 2018

Thank you Lala, I mean Zexalfan. I signed up to Dynasty specifically to talk about Nettaigyo, so I better make it count. I find it to be a series where going a little deeper to analyze the characters' thoughts, feelings and actions is interesting and rewarding since just taking it all at face value can understandably lead to frustration as I've seen lately. I don't mean you have to like whatever happens (let alone the uncertainty/non-commitment over whether it's yuri), but if any of my posts helped anyone become less frustrated, then to me they were worth writing.

I've been a massive Layton fan since the franchise started, so I usually use profile pics of its characters. Definitely go back to watch Mystery Detective Agency when you've got time, everything comes together at the end and it's really satisfying.

last edited at Oct 3, 2019 2:34PM

Adashima%20%207q
joined Mar 29, 2019

Thank you Lala, I mean Zexalfan. I signed up to Dynasty specifically to talk about Nettaigyo, so I better make it count. I find it to be a series where going a little deeper to analyze the characters' thoughts, feelings and actions is interesting and rewarding since just taking it all at face value can understandably lead to frustration as I've seen lately. I don't mean you have to like whatever happens (let alone the uncertainty/non-commitment over whether it's yuri), but if any of my posts helped anyone become less frustrated, then to me they were worth writing.

I've been a massive Layton fan since the franchise started, so I usually use profile pics of its characters. Definitely go back to watch Mystery Detective Agency when you've got time, everything comes together at the end and it's really satisfying.

Indeed your posts have been of great help!
Nettaigyo it's one of my current favorite manga (tied with Ani no Yome) and gotta admit for a while it was a bit difficult to enjoy it as much I would like thanks to the air of frustration that has surrounded it for the last months, which even if ignore I still can't quite get it out my head.
So posts like yours have helped a lot to clear out doubts and frustrations born out of said "air of frustration".
(I probably didn't explain myself very well but bottom line is that I appreciate a lot your posts)

I haven't been able to play all the Layton games, but from what I've played (Last Specter, Curious Village and Mystery Journey) I've had a great time so far, I even enjoyed Katrielle's game enough, despite the mix opinions I saw it recieved, to go and watch the anime, which I also had a good time watching, butsadly when it comes to this long running kinda shows if I miss a week or two I end up way behind, which was the case this time ^^;; but will try to get back on it hopefully soon.

joined Jan 25, 2017

Apparently the mangaka has come out and said that there is no gay.

Which breaks my heart, because that takes this series from "two introverted loners find love and discover themselves" to "two autistic fuckheads struggle with basic human communication."

This level of pining and drama and anxiety just doesn't make sense to me without a romantic element. I couldn't get enough of this series when the first vol was being released, but now I'm pretty close to dropping it...

The author has not said there's no gay, she said she doesn't consider it yuri.

But 'yuri' doesn't have to mean 'gay stuff, it's frequently used more to refer to just the romance genre of fluffy cute girls crushing on each other stuff. It can still be hella gay but not be yuri.

I feel like some of you need a course in linguistics. If you pay careful attention to what the author says, it makes perfect sense that she's using the concept of rejection of categorization in languages in order to describe a concept which can include anything ranging from an event to an identity and so on. Yuri in Japanese is an umbrella term that has come to be applied to anything that involved girl-on-girl action, so in a certain sense it's a term that's constantly being thrown around even if a certain work isnt even about yuri. It has lost its meaning. And it makes perfect sense for the author to reject the trend of putting labels on absolutely everything and instead chooses to be revolutionary and allowing herself and her readers to give it their own interpretation.

It does not mean they will not end up romantically together. It simply means that the author is rejecting.labels. at no point in that post does the author say that there is and will never be any romance between the two main girls.

This should just get stapled to the top of every page

Y’all need to stop judging the story by things that happen outside of the story.

1549976194434
joined Mar 25, 2019

Why are y’all so salty. The story was never yuri, it was never about yuri, it was never tagged yuri, it doesn’t need to be yuri. Why would you expect it to be yuri?

Konatsu has never been the best at handling her emotions, that’s her whole thing from the beginning. She has always held herself back and the strain from that is finally becoming too much. This has always been where her character was going, she’s learning to be selfish. Character development doesn’t always mean that the character is moving towards an objective good, it means the character is reevaluating they’re previous behavior and coming to understand themselves better.

And the whole thing about alcohol, I don’t know exactly how things are in your country, but in a lot of Asian countries the barrier is quite high. There’s a lot of social stigma to drinking alcohol, especially when you’re underaged and a girl. So it makes sense for sheltered girl like Honami to feel uncomfortable with it. And the whole point of that scene wasn’t the alcohol, it was about her struggle to be true to herself which has been her arc for a couple of chapters now.

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

The story was never yuri

Have we read the same manga ?

Vala
joined Jan 13, 2019

i know what this is all about

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

i know what this is all about

Me too—the turtle told me.

Mask
joined Jan 6, 2015

I have to be honest, this angsty swamp is starting to annoy me.

Maki%20und%20nico
joined Nov 18, 2014

how about u talk about it? eyeroll

Vala
joined Jan 13, 2019

wait. i'll have to wait 2 months again.

006
joined Jan 26, 2017

She finally snapped because of her internal monologue lol.

45b4e36d555ca184502130f8249354c2--flcl-furi-kuri2
joined Jul 19, 2018

That's the point though, Konatsu is being selfish. She's not acting the way she is out of a need for Koyuki's companionship caused by her own loneliness, she has Kaede and other friends to avoid feeling lonely. The issue is that she subconsciously grew fond of being Koyuki's only friend and confidant and once Koyuki managed to start making other friends (spurred on by Konatsu herself at that), Konatsu lost that special placement and is now trying to get her back under her "control" even though she knows she shouldn't.

It's pretty obvious when you consider the Salamander short story and see how the author keeps placing the frog and salamander metaphorically around the two girls. The frog is the character who initially lives freely, ends up entering the salamander's cave and gets trapped there by it because its presence eases the salamander's loneliness, even though the salamander knows that keeping the frog trapped will make it lonely as well. The initial setup of the story likened Konatsu to the frog and Koyuki to the salamander since the former was the one who ended up involved with the latter's aquarium club and stuck around to ease her loneliness. Now the metaphor has been flipped (ever since Konatsu saw Koyuki and Kaede walking around) so that Koyuki is the frog who would normally be free with her new friends and Konatsu is the salamander who wants to keep her trapped against her best interests.

Of course I'm oversimplifying things and it's only a partial analysis based on the current point in the story, but that's the gist of it and I don't think I'm off the mark due to all the visual metaphors.

Bingo.

Vala
joined Jan 13, 2019

i know what this is all about

Me too—the turtle told me.

last edited at Sep 28, 2020 9:22AM

Rsz_1screenshot_7
joined Aug 23, 2015

JUST TALK TO HER
is probably the general consensus

BeanBeanKingdom
Ms_icon
joined Nov 3, 2018

Man, Konatsu is a mess. And she seemed to be the relatively well-adjusted one until a while back.

Test
joined Sep 8, 2019

Jeez, the angst...

Super FRIENDSHIP POWWAAAH

Yandere%20eve
joined Mar 27, 2018

How is this not gay?

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